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26 January 2021


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Ed Lindgren

When friends and acquaintances question my apparent antipathy towards the State of Israel, I suggest that they familiarize themselves with the circumstances regarding the attack on the USS Liberty and the Pollard spy scandal.

I have been slogging through Jerome Slater's book 'Mythologies Without End: The US, Israel, and the Arab-Israeli Conflict 1917 - 2020.' Frankly, after getting 3/4 of the way through this book, I gave up because Slater's narrative was so depressingly repetitive. Slater documents Israel's repeated intransigence and refusal to make any meaningful concessions towards a just and lasting arrangement for peace with the Palestinians.

Probably the only event that will cause a serious reassessment of the US relationship with Israel will be the day when we can no longer find a buyer for our debt and we are forced to live within our means. But when that day arrives, the US/Israeli relationship will probably be the least of our problems.


......." Parallels are obvious when one considers that SolarWinds quickly brought on the discredited firm CrowdStrike to aid them in securing their networks and investigating the hack. CrowdStrike had also been brought on by the DNC after the 2016 WikiLeaks publication, and subsequently it was central in developing the false declarations regarding the involvement of “Russian hackers” in that event......."

CrowdStrike ...CrowdStrike ......CrowdStrike.

Still think Trump's mention of CrowdStrike in his Ukraine phone call, that led to his bogus impeachment ,was the real reason Democrats went apoplectic.

The echo chamber media treatment of the CrowdStrike element of the phone call as a "long discredited conspiracy theory", without ever mentioning CrowdStrike by name, was the first clue.

Is Israel First any worse than America First, or China First?

Certainly Netanyahu was eager to congratulate "President Elect Biden" before the Trump body was even cold demonstrated Trump's history of special treatment and good will towards Israel counted for nothing in their own version of their nation's real-politik.

Which is to also include our own self-serving interests, treating Israel in the same fashion. I think we should all be prickly against each other. Real-politik. Give only what one can afford to lose.


So Isabel Maxwell is sister to Ghislaine Maxwell of Jeffrey Epstein fame. The connecting dots point to an ever shrinking world of espionage against the US in order to get at more local targets. I wonder what they have on John Roberts.


I thought at the time how ironic it was that Netenyahu couldn't wait to throw Trump under the bus even though Trump spent so much time kissing up to Israel.


I thought it was obvious to most Americans that Israel does not have the same interests that the U.S.has.The source of Israel's influence in the U.S. is the evangelical vote which is Protestant in nature going back to Plymouth Rock and naming their kids after OT heroes and guilt from WW2. Nationalist Americans still fall in the trap of supporting Israel thinking we are all in this together with them. Think about it, all senators and congressmen vote uniformly for anything Israel wants and yet can't get a proper stimulus package thru. By the way Israel first is worse than America first.



As someone who has dealt with the issue of American illusions about Israel for many decades, I assure you that most Americans think Israel is the 51st state. I was the principal liaison between US and Israeli military intelligence for seven long years.

scott s.

I'm not sure I can agree with your source of Israel influence going back to Plymouth Rock. The Pilgrims were strongly reformed and promoted Covenant Theology, while current American evangelicals largely accept Dispensationalism and pre-tribulation as developed by Darby in the early 1800s and popularized by Schofield in the early 1900s.


Used tools such as Solar Winds extensively as engineer in wireless telcom industry.
There are much better tools.
Have read many accounts of this security breach and Israel being involved is much more probable and likely explanation.
Also available evidence points that way.
Russia Russia Russia and China China China are easy talking points for those that are lazy


For we are a stiff necked people...


NSA has Israel under surveillance for decades afaik.



Thank God. I see you are in Slovenia. What is your point? If you think they don't get far more from us than we get from them, you are misinformed.



The lazy, ignorant Spanish trolls who apparently never heard of wikipedia claim to not know what I meant by a "Morgenthau model." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgenthau_Plan


In 1989, as an IBM contractor, I spent a month at a VQ2 det in the Med, helping install a computer system, and instructing key personnel in its use. I became friends with the Chiefs, male and female, that ran the place, walking around in their starched kakis with clipboards, instructing the pilots and recon officers, slouching in their flight suits, their assignments for the day. (Which of course came down from VQ2 itself, likely compiled by Chiefs there. As Zhukov said when asked who ran the Russian Army: “The Sergeants and myself.”) We both knew several of the Liberty survivors: I from my previous Government employment; they from the Navy. They all assured me privately that the Navy was determined never to let anything like that happen again. There’s undoubtedly been a complete turn over or two of personnel since then, but I suspect the same determination prevails today: Once bitten, twice shy.

The Twisted Genius

Given the publicly available evidence and information, there is no reason to rule out Israel. They have the skill and motivation to pull this off. The same can be said for China as well as Russia. North Korea and Iran are also strong contenders. Those two are surprisingly capable. However, from our viewpoint any attribution is based on circumstantial evidence only. True attribution needs more than that such as that laid out in the GRU 12 indictment for the DNC hack or the Dutch AIVD witnessing of the APT29 (SVR) hack of the Pentagon in 2015. We need to see the adversary's traffic and infrastructure. Without that, we're guessing.

Our inability to see Israel as an adversary is exasperating. As Ed Lindgren mentioned, the USS Liberty and the Pollard spy ring should be reason enough to cause permanent suspicion. The author brought up the case of Trump campaign collusion with Israel and Saudi Arabia. The evidence for this was actually stronger than any Trump-Russia collusion. Yet that went unnoticed outside a small group of researchers. Our blindspot towards Israel may prove fatal some day.

jim ticehurst

Who contracted Solarwinds..? It was associated with "GITHUB"which was making enemys in the Middle East..and was Involved with Jared Kushner as a Backer...according to the Wiki Write up on "GitHub" Thats a Backdoor I would look at..


AIPAC and their friends on both sides of the aisle in Congress already has access to info from the various federal agencies that were hacked. Would they endanger that open gateway by a penetration of US government IT systems?

The Izzies are much more interested in hacking Iranians. Or those european signers of JCPOA that are trying to negotiate with Iran. They hacked computers in various European hotels that had Iranian guests. In the US Israeli hackers' target has been the BDS movement (Boycott, Divest & Sanction) movement, plus any association or group that promotes civil rights for Palestinians. I wouldn't doubt that they are also hacking congresswoman Rashida Talib, the Arab American Institute, the Council on American-Islamic Relations, various Arab-American lobbies, and the Palestinian diaspora in Detroit and other American cities.

However, there is suspicion that Israeli private individuals may at one time or another be involved with or helped provide expertise to Cozy Bear & other cyber APTs operated mainly out of Russia.


A new one for consideration

"A deed in hand is worth a burning bush for it is  belief that lights the flame."

Funny how solarwinds pops up after the election,isn't it.the winds of change are blowing.

Yeah, Right

I know you can't go into specifics, but as a general rule of thumb did Israeli military intelligence ever offer you any intel that you didn't already know?

Seamus Padraig

@scott s. | 26 January 2021 at 02:25 PM

Theologically, you have a point. Except that historically, virtually all the low-church British protestants were very pro-Jewish anyway, regardless of theology. Remember: it was Oliver Cromwell who let the Jews back into England after nearly three centuries of absence. Why? I don't know. Maybe the Proddies thought the Jews would make good allies against Rome. There is also the fact that they tended towards biblical literalism in those days, looking to the Bible as though it were system of law--similar to the way the Jews did.


Yeah, right.
No, it was a one way street. It amounted to a firehose stream going one way. There were a lot of meetings at which they gave us nothing of value, and that evidently was not enough because they planted people all over the government to feed them stuff we did not want to give them. Occasionally they got caught passing material and when that happened the politicians would forbid prosecution. That was true of both US parties. Pollard was recruited for the purpose of not having their significant assets put at risk. He was passed lists of specific documents by his Israeli handlers. The documents were listed by serial number so that he would not bring the wrong ones out of the US security envelope. He brought them to the team safe house where they were copied and then he returned them to the Navy's safes. On one occasion I decided to probe their willingness to actually cooperate with us. I told the liaison rep in Washington that we maintained encyclopedic files on all the armed forces of the world. this was a routine task. I told them that it was a waste of our time to collect basic data about the IDF. That being the case, I asked them to give us the TO&E of a type IDF infantry brigade so we would not waste analytic time. The request went to Tel Aviv and was refused.



Israel has a long history of stealing US information over and above that which they are given. They don't believe that we give them everything we have and so they steal what they think we may be keeping from them. Compartmentation makes it impossible for them to be sure. Remember Pollard? In Pollard's case the material he was directed to obtain for them often had nothing to do with the ME, but it was good trading material.

The Beaver

@ Fred

To learn more about the Maxwell twins who moved to Silicon Valley:


at what point does the relationship with usa and israel get severed??

Andrei Martyanov


Nationalist Americans still fall in the trap of supporting Israel thinking we are all in this together with them

That automatically disqualifies them from being "nationalist", the term which in itself is pretty meaningless in the United States since the only party which could nominally qualify for "nationalist" in the US is GOP, which is an Israeli-first neocon operation primarily. There is no nationalism without a nation and the United States is not a nation anymore. Democrats with the help of GOP will see to it that the US does not coalesce into anything remotely reminiscent of nation. Citizenship is not a nationhood.



I have been told that the u.s. never ever spies on israel or hacks its world class r&d industry.Just not done.Anyway if n.korea can steal bangladesh treasuries from under the nose of the fed,anything is possible.Including an election hack that benefits mr biddy.
If you place a rock in a stream you can get water to flow around it.you can even imagine which way the water will flow but it is very difficult to imagine which way the little fish will swim around it.
Why bother with a rock when you can change the direction of the stream at its source.


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