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04 January 2021

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Leith

Elaine:

Kit Carson led a volunteer Union regiment at the Battle of Valverde so let's rename Fort Carson also. I'd support it being naming after Kit's teenaged common-law wife and mother of two of his children, Waanibe. In the English translation Fort Singing Grass has a nice ring to it.

Or maybe Fort Dohasan after the Kiowa chief that kicked Carson's butt at Adobe Wells.

Steve Kaczecka

Horace

What war did you avoid?

Deap

Turn unused military barracks into permanent vagrant shelters. Then listen to ACLU suddenly, howl military accommodations are not good enough for transient "homeless".

Yet the military is the best remedial education, skills-building outfit out there. Sounds like a perfect marriage. We could do (are doing) a lot worse than putting transients into military-type boot camps.

optimax

Fort Cleveland Indians

Fort Xi

richard barber

One should be Fort Raffensperger, after a fearless defender of law and order.

Fourth and Long

Fort Swamp. Fort Porkbarrel. Fort Printing Press. Fort Wikileaks. Fort Ellsberg. Fort Mainstream. Fort Fringe. Fort Lunatic. Fort Disaster. Fort Bailout. Fort Sunset. Fort Congress.

Morongobill

If that was a serious comment re: Sherman and Georgia- South Carolina, I suggest a visit to a country bar in the area, and enlightening everyone inside with the idea.

Bubba Schwartz

One of them will be renamed to Camp Snowflake.

Cale F

Be sure to check out the new massive multi-million dollar* U.S. Army museum at Fort Belvoir which opened late last year. It’s the most ridiculously woke presentation on the history of the U.S. Army in war possible. When you enter into the main exhibit hall there are historical profiles of people who’ve served in the U.S. Army. Almost all of them ‘people of color’, LGBT, Japanese-Americans in WWII, etc. It gets only slightly better when you see the exhibits/presentations inside. And of course, the Confederate soldiers of the Civil War are besmirched.

My suggestion is skip it and go see the Stonewall Jackson museum in Manassas before they force it to shutdown.

*defense contractors donated big bucks

Exiled off mainstreet

I remember about 40 years ago when they wanted to rename the downmarket suburb of East Palo Alto "Nairobi" and it was laughed off. It shows the decline of culture when Communist style renaming has become the norm, apparently.

The Twisted Genius

Fort Lee or Fort A.P. Hill could be renamed to Fort Mahone, a native Virginian and CSA general. It would be a change that everyone can both love and hate. He was a competent and successful general and hero of the Battle of the Crater. He also founded the Readjuster Party in Virginia where blacks made great strides politically and economically in the four year stretch when the Readjusters held the state house in Richmond. He wasn't woke, just pragmatic. It's a period of history that the UDC and other Lost Causers try to erase. No monuments to William Mahone were raised in Virginia other than the obelisk commemorating his actions at the crater.

Richard Ong

Ft. Netanyahu
Ft. Saud
Ft. ISIS
Ft. Ayers
Ft. Buttigieg
Ft. Keelhaul
Ft. Yalta
Ft. Pollard
Ft. Liberty
Ft. Nuremberg
Ft. Soros
Ft. Adelson
Ft. Zuckerberg
Ft. Dominion
Ft. Roberts
Ft. Whoopi

turcopolier

TTG

Billy Mahone came from a working class background. VMI always sought to produce grads from that kind of background as well as from "the cousinage." He went to VMI as a "state cadet" (full scholarship). He was one of the best Rebel leaders who emerged in the last year of the war. John Gordon was another. I dunno, Mahone's division killed a lot of USCT prisoners at the Crater. Just shot them as they pulled them out of the hole. White officers first of course. Rank has its privilege. Supposedly, Mahone's Black teamsters, etc. were first in line to kill them, believing the Blacks to be traitors to their Southern heritage.

Richard C

I find the word “Fort” offensive. It brings up so many negative connotations and my desire a safe space becomes needed. Perhaps we should call one of these installations Rainbow Farting Unicorn. It is both powerful in meaning and in image.

The Twisted Genius

The USCT regiments shouted "Remember Fort Pillow" and No Quarter" as they advanced at the Crater. Big mistake. The Rebs took them at their word and reciprocated with no quarter. I think Mahone's attitude towards war was akin to Sherman's and the fighting was desparate. Even so, he eventually stopped the killing that day. I still find it curious that he was not memorialized to the extent that Forrest was memorialized even though he was the architect of the Fort Pillow Massacre. The Lost Causers just cannot forgive Mahone for the Readjusters. He definitely deserves better from both sides. Unfortunately, both sides are unable to forgive what they see as Mahone's unforgivable acts.

turcopolier

Richard C

"Fort" as the title of permanent installations is an inheritance from the American frontier. So what.

Fred

TTG,

"Unfortunately, both sides are unable to forgive what they see as Mahone's unforgivable acts."

As we see a century and a half later one side is quite willing to label the other with collective guilt over what their ancestors may have done. There are plenty of new American politicians willing to play the divide and conquer part of the political game too; the results of Appomatox being something they wish to erase in its entirety to keep the game alive.

turcopolier

TTG

Mahone was thought of as a traitor to his own people and the "Lost Cause" as you folks like to call it. That, of course, is an insulting denigration of a defeated but not beaten enemy. Forrest didn't do anything like that and therefore was not thought a traitor to the "Lost Cause." Mahone fought in the front line at The Crater. The CG of the USCT Division who were massacred there was a politically appointed dancing teacher who was drinking in a bunker a mile away, and got away with that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Ferrero

The Twisted Genius

pl,

The Lost Cause is not something made up by Unionists. The term first appeared in an 1866 book by a Virginia author, “The Lost Cause: A New Southern History of the War of the Confederates.” The term may not have been appreciated by all Southerners and Southern sympathizers, but it was widely used by them. What made Mahone a traitor to his own people? Was it his embrace of the Republicans? That I could understand. Or was it his brief success in establishing a biracial, progressive and more or less equal society in Virginia with the Readjusters? I’m sure that posed a quandary for those longing for a return to the antebellum ways. The only good outcome for the Union from the Crater was the dismissal of Ledlie and Ferrero. The Union Army in the East had an overabundance of such sad sacks. It was much better in the West.

turcopolier

TTG

A Southerner first used the phrase "the Lost Cause? C'mon man! You know that is sophistic BS. The phrase has been used endlessly to mock and belittle the South.

turcopolier

TTG

"On December 2, 1864, Ferrero was breveted major general for "bravery and meritorious services." He served throughout the Appomattox Campaign in early 1865." wiki on him pl

The Twisted Genius

pl,

I've never heard "Lost Cause" used by a Northerner in a derogatory fashion. I've only heard it in a descriptive manner or in a most nostalgic way by a Southerner or Southern sympathizer. It was coined by Edward Pollard, a Virginian unabashedly proud of his Southern heritage and antebellum Southern society. He began his literary career with his paean to the peculiar institution in 1859, “Black Diamonds Gathered in the Darkey Homes of the South.” He wrote his “Lost Cause” books in 1866 and 1869 which started the ball rolling. His role in this is succinctly explained in this article from “Historynet.”

https://www.historynet.com/edward-pollard-jim-crow-souths-white-liar.htm

“Pollard explicitly explained the motivation behind what he termed the “Lost Cause.” Although the South had lost the Civil War, he argued that the South could still wage and win the “war of ideas.” Conceding that the South’s loss meant “restoration of the union and the excision of slavery,” Pollard was still defiant, writing that “the war did not decide Negro equality.”
To say Pollard's work was influential would be an understatement. Pollard’s “Lost Cause” quickly found its way into Southern writing, most notably in the Southern Historical Society. Described by historian David Blight as “the vehicle for presenting the Confederate version of the war to the world,” Civil War historiography originated with Pollard's work and the papers published by the Society.”

turcopolier

TTG

"I've never heard "Lost Cause" used by a Northerner in a derogatory fashion." C'mon man. You are known for honesty here.

The Twisted Genius

pl,

I swear I haven't. I've certainly heard people denigrate the ideas behind the "Lost Cause," but never the term itself as an epithet. I've often heard it used in glowing terms by Southern sympathizers. Is it's use as a term of derision something recent?

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