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18 December 2020

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cwt

Weve fallen a long way from "Fīat jūstitia ruat cælum"

A.Pols

What you say makes sense. I had assumed that fear of upsetting the apple cart played a large part in SCOTUS' backing away from the third rail of challenging the electoral process enshrined in US mythology as the "Envy of the World". had they accepted the case, the scales might have fallen from our eyes.

EEngineer

I can't remember ever seeing any leftist types at the range. He damn well ought to be scared of the folks I did see there though...

Deap

Allegedly, there was no "closed room". They were all on ZOOM conference calls. But that is only from another net source.

Reminder: Turtles hold up the pillars fronting the Supreme Court entrance. People speculate his is to symbolize justice moves slowly, but does win the race.

Lowering standing thresholds for political expediency is fraught with peril. I am sorry they did not have sufficient time to analyze and research this novel issue more thoroughly. Plus it appears there are more readily justicable issues still in the pipeline.

Diana L Croissant

It seems to me that Roberts was really more concerned about political leaning rather than experience.

I though the Supreme Court was to consider the Constituion first in its discussions, not experience of participants.

What a low state our country has come to. I sure hope we can get back to some sort of equilibrium.

j. casey

Resonates with Escobar: "...a Deep State intel source told me, 'the Supreme Court did not like to see half the country rioting against them, and preferred the decision be made by each state in the House of Representatives. That is the only way to handle this without jeopardizing the union. Even prominent Democrats I know realize that the fix took place. The error was to steal too many votes. This grand theft indicts the whole system, that has always been corrupt.'”

Walter Patrick Lang

j. casey

"...that has always been corrupt.'” Escobar's bigotry.

Eric Newhill

This story seems apocryphal to me. I'm not convinced it happened; at least not that way.

All we hear from the swamp is that right wing deplorables are the greatest threat to internal security. Now I ain't no genius of the caliber of those sitting in the Supreme Court, but even if I was a swampy I would calculate that I should fear an enraged right wing deplorable mob, with all of their fully semi-automatic scary assault weapons of war, a lot more than a bunch of thin beard coffee house rejects armed with sticks and stones.

Bill H

The decision not to hear the Texas case was so illogical that I concluded at once that fear of rioting was the actual cause for the decision. As everyone wondered why Democratic state governors allowed the violence to continue, I suspected at the time that it was a warning of what would happen if Democrats lost in November.

scott s.

In the 1876 election there was a great deal of debate over the role of the Supreme Court in the challenge to electors. A commission of Congress was created and the role of the justices was "ministerial".

For the Texas case, it seems to come down to Texas doesn't like how the legislatures of PA and and the other states appoint their electors. If the affected state legislators have a problem with how the election was conducted in their states, that seems like the logical place to object.

Artemesia

Perhaps it's voyeuristic to ask about Kavanaugh's brokenness?

Perhaps Roberts is running scared? Not much has been made of his head injury near Chevy Chase Country Club that required an overnight at Suburban Hospital. Did somebody beat up the Chief Justice?

Similarly, a few weeks ago no explanation was forthcoming after Mitch McConnell appeared in public with both hands black-and-blue and swelling and black and blue marks about his lips.

Rand Paul still carries the effects of persuasion-by-thuggery but seems willing to resist.

Roberts -- not so much?

That these men, and our nation, are reduced to intimidation by thuggery makes me sad and afraid.

Barbara Ann

Colonel Lang

The question you pose is of supreme importance, as of course is the question of the unknowable mind & will of the President. My own views on the latter crystallized after seeing Trump's December 2nd speech, which appeared to me to be a clear warning to the courts to sort out the mess, or else. I recognize the argument of critics who point to a lack of precedent when decisive action has been called for in the past, but surely an uncommitted man would by now have thrown in the towel.

I always go back to Trump's motivations for running for office. He is many things, but dumb ain't one of them. He must have known 5 years ago that he was going to war with the swamp and that in the absence of a negotiated peace (no sign of which is in evidence) such a war must have a winner and a loser. Trump is a high risks go-for-broke type and I happen to believe he is truly motivated by wanting to save the country and uphold his oath. There are 2 antithetical points of view on the merits of his strategy, but none of that changes what Trump himself believes and that alone will determine his actions.

If the SCOTUS is truly irredeemably compromised, either by partisan views and/or by fear of the mob - a self-fulfilling irony is ever there was one - must a patriot still feel compelled to abide by the law? Or are we now in the territory covered by Alexander Dumas' famous epigram; "The difference between treason and patriotism is only a matter of dates".

Rudy, Jenna & crew seem to have more constitutional slight of hand up their sleeves, but the scope for this looks extremely limited and all of it pretty much guaranteed to have the mob in the streets anyway I would think. Pence does not strike me as a do or die kind of guy and I just can't see him standing in front of Congress counting the various states' duplicate EC votes for Trump on the 6th.

I don't know enough about the Insurrection Act to comment on the increasingly widespread calls among Trump supporters to have it invoked. But in the absence of insurrection how could orders given under it be considered legal? It is notable I think that Sidney Powell - a lawyer - recently joined Mike Flynn in retweeting a call for exactly this. Trump's Twitter is an oasis of ominous calm in comparison.

Fred

j. casey,

"Even prominent Democrats I know realize that the fix took place. "

So Excobar is saying he doesn't actually know any prominent Democrats.

turcopolier

Artemesia

Perhaps you have seen more broken men than I. "Voyeurism?" How dare you talk to me like that.

Deap

What does the swamp have on Roberts? - The internet is forever, so it is interesting to look back when there was similar speculation about Roberts after his Obamacare ruling; also considered a major conservative betrayal..

Up come familiar names from this background search - Brennan and Clapper and the curious adoption by Roberts of two very blond children from "Latin America". The speculation was deep-staters Clapper/Brennan would use Robert's own kids suspect adoption legality against him. Search for more details about this speculation at the time. True or not, it was the operational buzz.

However, at that same time during the Obama years with more than a little irony - (about 2010?) - it was considered ludicrous to even speculate the "government" would take actions against someone's children, in order to get what they wanted.

That was then; this is now. I suspect Michael Flynn has a different understanding today about how far the "government" will go against one
s children, to get what they want. And it was the same "government" - the Obama government.

There has always been the threat of violence surrounding that man. From being "selected" to be Harvard Law Review President to election eve 2008 -to the four years of ginned up anti-Trump violence, and threats against a fair election in 2020.

Peter VE

Regarding that Chart: Rhode Island made the mistake of putting ratification to a vote, where the voters turned it down 10 to 1. The new US responded by introducing a bill in the Senate to impose tariffs on trade with Rhode Island. The people who ran the state (mostly merchants such as the Brown brothers and the DeWolfs) made sure the Legislature went into special session, and they appointed a Commission, who barely voted for ratification.
I'm sure the Legislature of the Commonwealth of Virginia would NEVER do anything so contrary to the will of the voters!

Artemesia

No no no.
I was not at all suggesting you were voyeuristic.
My purpose was to ask for more information: how, why, in what way manifest was Kavanaugh's brokenness, but I feared that my question would label me "voyeuristic."

I do not know enough about Kavanaugh's present situation to compare him to the broken men in my frame of reference. To be elevated to so prominent and supposedly prestigious a post but end up psychologically devastated is a profound tragedy.

Apologies for failing to properly communicate, and seeming to insult you in the process.

Eric Newhill

Artemesia,
Here's another curious "accident' to add to your list.

https://www.waynedupree.com/2020/12/harrison-deal-car-crash-video/

Deap

Artemesia, long term cortisone drug use, for arthritis or other chronic afflictions, can cause sub-dermal bleeding and pooling dark spots especially noticeable in the hands because they are exposed. Cortisone use when used long term is a dance between relief and side effects - it is ongoing.

What is the level of government security protection that key government officials, elected legislative members and the judiciary get? Does the Secret Service only protect the Executive branch officers and their families?

A.Pols

I'm curious about your assertion about Kavanaugh. I'm not challenging your assertion in the least because I lack information. But being a broken man? Is this related to the Christine Balsy Fraud
slander attempt to tar him as a sexual predator and, if so, could he have been so badly traumatized? I'd like to know. on a much smaller scale I have some experience with being publically impugned and how hard it can be to shake off.

Harlan Easley

Roberts comes across as a Coward.

longarch

Sir,
anonymous researchers are circulating accusations of child abuse against Justice Roberts. A summary is at:

https://sg.catbox.moe/vgqehh.jpg

In brief, these anons claim that Justice Roberts engaged in decadent vice at Jeffrey Epstein's "Orgy Island" along with Bill Clinton.

If the general public believes these accusations, they may call for Justice Roberts' removal from the bench, regardless of whether or not he committed treason. Furthermore, charismatic orators such as General Flynn may stir up ordinary Americans to heights of outraged activism. Justice Roberts might need to be put in protective custody. I believe Guantanamo Bay could protect his physical safety, but I fear his reputation is doomed.

blue peacock

"Roberts actually said (or screamed) that he feared leftist mobs in the streets if the court heard the case."

If this is true, then my in jest comment on SCOTUS decision calculus a few threads back is shockingly correct.

As I noted SCOTUS would decide based on a simple choice - Trump crying on Twitter vs Antifa mobs in the streets and the corporate media hysteria directed at SCOTUS. That would be an easy choice.

While in theory SCOTUS should adjudicate on the basis of the Constitution & laws passed by Congress, they are human and political creatures. The "strict constructionists" nominated by Trump & the GOP are only that in name, their actual judicial record shows they're corporatists and more beholden to the Party of Davos than the original intent of the primacy of the natural rights of citizens.

The question is what will MAGA do if they believe the election was stolen? Are they like Trump - All hat and no cattle? Unlike the Party of Davos and their street provocateurs who keep demonstrating the naked exercise of power.

Neal

Personally, I think the denial of cert was absolutely correct. Why? Because this is the ultimate 'political question'. Since the Supremes are traditionally chosen from among the more learned political hacks in the Republic, it's always been a bit of a fairy tale to pretend that they always refrain from determining political questions, and it never turns out well for the Court when they don't, but here we’re talking about a national election. This is clearly not a decision for the judicial power. It’s supposed to be decided in the states by the counting of votes (and all the legislatures have passed laws saying so, none have reserved the power to cast the electors to the legislature, despite the authorization to do so in the constitution). As Scott S. points out above, they knew this in 1876, and I suppose that is why no one then thought the Supremes could just decide the matter, although Supreme Court judges served on the commission, presumably to add what little ‘gravitas’ they may have had. And of course, this is why the Supremes shouldn't have waded into the Bush-Gore election (but then Tom Delay would have had to play the the king maker in accordance with the constitution, and that was a no-go for some reason).

The reason given in the cert denial decision was perfectly correct, too. Texas has no standing to complain about the conduct of the election in Pennsylvania, etc. Not if the states retain any "sovereignty" in our federal republic. Whatever may or may not have happened in Pennsylvania or Georgia did not prevent Texas prevent from casting their electors. An expansion of the use of mail ballots in another state, with or without action by the state's legislature, has no effect on Texas' election. Therefore, no harm done to the state of Texas. Suddenly conservatives oppose states rights?

The only arguable basis for the Supremes -- or any part of the federal government -- to get involved would be Article 4, section 4. We’d be saying that Pennsylvania and Georgia no longer had republican forms of government. Shades of Shays' Rebellion, perhaps? I guess that is why there's all this talk about the insurrection act.

Which reminds me of Rehnquist's sarcastic citing of all the lunch counter sit-in cases in Bush v Gore, cases that he had spent his life opposing, so that he could join in the equal protection argument just long enough to then say it was too late to fashion any remedy in Florida.

By the way, the Court has denied the story about yelling in the hallways. Apparently they've been conferencing by telephone since last March.

Fred

Eric,

That story gets even better. It was reported the investigator of the 'accident' is reported to have died at his home. Age 51. Sad for that to happen, especially at an early age. One wonders how that happened.
https://twitter.com/GBI_GA/status/1339354142314274816
https://www.statesboroherald.com/ob/obituary-mr-james-david-jamie-osullivan/

As to the first accident we have to ask why GA GBI hasn't released some very basic info on that aleged accident. Rear end collisions on an interstate where one vehicle is stopped on the side of the road do happen, though not too often. Such an accident that causes a fuel tank to catch fire thereby killing the occupants is very rare indeed.

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