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16 November 2020

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The Twisted Genius

That's the same forlorn hope that the Hillary dead enders were clinging to right up to minute the electoral college cast their votes. It's dependent on what the individual states have in their voting and electoral laws which i think universally calls for electors to mirror the popular vote.

Fred

TTG,

"universally calls for electors to mirror the popular vote."

Do you mean the vote in each of their respective states or something else?

blue peacock

TTG,

I agree with you here. That's a dead-end. No legislature will go against the electoral laws of the state.

However, I notice a remarkable about-face by the mainstream media propagandists. Here's an example from 2017.

https://www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/legal-work/ExpertsSign-OnLettertoCongress.pdf

We had Hillary then continuing to bitch that the Russians stole the election. It should be standard practice that there should be a selection of random counties and counties with statistical anomalies where there is a complete audit & and hand-recount. Every ballot should be matched to the voter roll and the voter verified as a legitimate voter of the county.

The media now clamoring for Trump to shut-up now and concede and move on is just the opposite of what they were screaming from the ramparts in 2016.

I would be very supportive of an audit and hand recount of votes from Milwaukee, Philly, Detroit, Atlanta and Phoenix. The turnouts in some these places defy credulity.

Leith

Definitely there will be some faithless electors. One third of the states do not have a State law that imposing fine or imprisonment on an elector who fails to vote according to the statewide popular vote. Georgia & Pennsylvania are part of that one third.

It may or may not affect the results.

Deap

Like to see how SCOTUS interprets .....Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit.

Does this cover any sworn federal government employee or operating under any federal government paid contract or program? I see this as a front line defense against self-interested parties determining the outcomes of an election.

eakens

Not every state requires or penalizes electors to go with or against the popular vote. Wisconsin is one such state. Trump just needs to make sure Biden doesn't get enough votes and he's golden. In some states, you won't want to be a faithless elector, in others, you probably don't want to be somebody that votes for the fraud. This is going to get really interesting.

Deap

As a rabid, but now well-reformed No-Trumper in 2016 myself, I was also clinging to the idea we could rescue our Republic, if the electors exercised independent judgement, as designed, that would reject the nominal will of the misguided voters. I clung to the idea of this last minute Hail Mary pass.

I was even cheering that the Russia Pee-Pee tape would finally bring Trump down before he was officially inaugurated. Now greatly chagrined to learn Hilary Clinton was in fact behind both attacks on the legitimate Trump election. Giving lie to any clams of "peaceful" transition of office the Democrats are now demanding in 2020.

Remarkably, I was instantly converted to become a Pro-Trumper on Inauguration Day, when I saw the union ginned-up pink kitty hat protests and realized in an instant, yes the swamp must be drained. I did not predict this would lead to the endless Democrat wars against the legitimacy of the Trump election for four long years. But it did. I am reformed. Permanently.

The Twisted Genius

Fred,

Of course I mean the popular vote I the respective states. Although there were/are some Democrats who want state electors to mirror the national popular vote. It's a stupid idea which would never get approval in any state legislature, even California. It would be destructive to our federal system of government.

The Twisted Genius

Leith and Eakins,

Yes faithless electors are still possible. It would require grand deception on the part of the appointed electors or the Trump Organization buying off or threatening the electors to change their vote. There was one case of a faithless elector in 2017 when an elector chose Sanders rather than Clinton. That case led the Supreme Court to unanimously uphold state "faithless elector" laws.

BillWade

"Skinny Joey" Merlino is the mob boss of Philadelphia, funny and interesting article:

https://buffalochronicle.com/2020/11/14/exclusive-how-a-philly-mob-boss-stole-the-election-and-why-he-may-flip-on-joe-biden/

lux

... It should be standard practice that there should be a selection of random counties and counties with statistical anomalies where there is a complete audit & and hand-recount.
...
I would be very supportive of an audit and hand recount of votes from Milwaukee, Philly, Detroit, Atlanta and Phoenix. The turnouts in some these places defy credulity.

Posted by: blue peacock | 16 November 2020 at 10:51 AM

would you explain your choices? You looked into those especially?

Deap

Good recap of the Obama Democrat shenanigans during their "peaceful" 2016 transfer of power to Trump, both pre and post election: https://redstate.com/sister-toldjah/2020/11/16/there-will-be-no-unity-some-inconvenient-reminders-about-how-dems-treated-trump-during-2016-transition-n280596

Shocking in full review today. Plus Obama intentionally setting up Trump with a contrived "international incident" to face Trump on Day One - the Russian embassy evictions that led even more infamously to the Obama deep state and still ongoing sabotage of Gen. Michale Flynn.

Dripping with disappointment this did not escalate into a major rift with Russia, Obama and his secretive Oval Office team, which included VP Biden, wondered what went wrong - surely Trump and Flynn were up to no good and violated the Logan Act to diffuse this intentional set-up trap. (RE: infamous 11th hour Susan Rice memo to file)

So do even more Democrats, than just Joe Biden, have serious short-term memory problems? If so, we can never afford "universal health care".

scott s.

The question of electors being ineligible due to "holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States" was an issue in the contested 1876 election. That dispute was settled via a special congressional committee established by law in Jan 1877 to resolve the issue of which electors were valid.

As far as "in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct" the supreme court has previously decided, in a case involving Nebraska's allocation of electors based on congressional district vote, that the legislative power is "plenary". I was researching this a few years ago when our legislature passed legislation to enact the "national popular vote compact" act, which allots electors to the party having the most national popular votes provided states with at least 270 electoral votes sign onto the compact.

But from what I can determine the legislative power in this clause is not independent of the states, but is subject to the powers and limitations of the state constitutions. So for the most part the legislature determines the appointment of electors by their general law-making power with governor signing / veto and court oversight.

Note also the supreme court just last July approved state "faithless elector" laws in Chiafalo v Washington

Deap

Lux, data analysis has revealed so far the major Biden vote surges came from those four Democrat controlled cities alone.

And it appears these Biden vote surges took place during the lone wee small hours of the morning after they officially "stopped vote counting" and apparently after the votes took an electronic trip to election counting computers located in Germany, and perhaps Spain.

Ironically, Germany demands paper ballot voting only in their own federal elections due to "electronic voting" corruption and fraud.

How do you think a new Democrats disinformation campaign will respond to these pending charges against these four Democrat controlled cities - uniquely providing this 11th hour surge for Biden? Do you think they will now personally smear Sidney Powell. Did she sexually assault someone in high school? Did she cheat on her bar exam? Or is she just guilty of bad eyebrows.

Degringolade

This is also interesting.

https://history.house.gov/Institution/Origins-Development/Electoral-College/

Bill H

TTG
Allocation of electoral votes based on the national popular vote already has been enacted by no fewer that 15 state legislatures, including California, under the mantle of the "The National Popular Vote Interstate Compact." It will not be enacted until states comprising 270 electoral votes join in, but...

The Twisted Genius

Bill H,

Good God! Fifteen states bought into this stupidity. Granted it's a weasely and chickenshit way to make the electoral college moot, but I'm disheartened that 15 state legislatures, all Democrats I assume, have already bought into it. It's a serious rot on our federal structure. OTOH, it would force candidates to pay attention to all American voters, not just the swing state ones. It's still a stupid, stupid idea.

Seamus Padraig

BTW, the faithless electors don't necessarily have to come from the swing states where the popular vote is in dispute; in theory, they could come from any state. All we have to do is make sure that Biden gets no more than 268 electors total, and that by itself should throw the election into the House.

srw

TTG
If the administrations of Bush II and Trump don't lead a person to want the popular vote then I don't know what will.
You hit the nail on the head when you stated "OTOH, it would force candidates to pay attention to all American voters, not just the swing state ones". Why should Iowa corn farmers have the attention of persons running for president over the concerns of almond farmers in California?
I am getting tired of seeing all the attention put on swing states every four years. The president (and VP) are the only elected officials that represent all the citizens. Let's select them that way.

turcopolier

SRW

In your opinion what should be the role of the states in American government?

Fred

srw,

We do select them that way. The electoral college ensures that interests of those residing in small population states are not swamped by a couple of metropolitan areas, just as would have happened two centuries ago were it not incorporated into the Constitution.

srw

Fred/PL
Individuals vote, not states.
Individual states still have two senators to represent them, no matter how big or small. States still have all governmental powers that the constitution does not reserve for the federal government. Can you give me an example of citizens from a metropolitan area usurping the desires of smaller populated states?

randal m sexton

I will not consent to be governed by anyone who thinks they can just throw my vote away. Dont care what BS you come up with.

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