« Fox News–A 21st Century MEDIA Titanic? by Larry C Johnson | Main | “What Syria withdrawal? There was never a Syria withdrawal,” Jeffrey said. »

13 November 2020

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

Deap

Aren't neo-cons the same as government employee union members, except they push for government contracts for quasi-private industries like the military industrial complex who suck off tax dollars?

Is Boeing in Washington state "private industry" or a wholly owned Democrat union operation supported by neo-cons. New con -- is just whine in old bottles. No wonder they are happy going back to the pro-union Dems - what butters their bread.

But this also requires some neo-sabre rattling to fuel new "investments" in the M-I-C. Won''t that be antithetical to the party of peace and love. Who will they target as our mortal global enemy requiring "new investments" in the M-I-C?

Taiwan, Iran, NK, China, Russia ....who is a worthy enemy these days to warrant re-newed support for the M-I-C? New arms race with China, ship building, Russian Ice Breakers control of the Arctic?

Polish Janitor

It should be noted that the return of "neocons" does not mean the return of people like Wolfowitz, Ladeen, Feith, Kristol who are more "straussian" than "liberal/internationalist", but those like Nuland, Rice, Sam Powell, Petraeus, Flournoy, heck even Hilary Clinton as UN Ambassador who are CFR-type liberal interventionist than pure military hawks such as Bolton or Mike Flynn. These liberal internationalists, as opposed to straussian neocons, will intervene in collaboration with EU/NATO/QUAD (i.e. multilaterally) in the name upholding human rights and toppling authoritarianism, rather than for oil, WMDs, or similar concrete objectives. In very simple terms, the new Biden administration's foreign policy will be none other than the return to "endless wars" for nation-building purposes first and last.

fakebot

The name Kagan is the Russianized version of the name Cohen. He was going to be McCain's NSA had he been elected. They pulled a stunt with the Bush admin to make Obama look weak by pushing Georgia into war with Russia in 2008. Sakaasvili, the president of Georgia, was literally eating his own tie:

https://cdn1.img.sputniknews.com/img/102445/69/1024456927_0:98:1000:639_1000x541_80_0_0_d2bb118481dc653ec7d2a8b170b8f6bf.jpg

A lot of the neocons are Russian Jews who grew up in households that were Bolshevik communists. They're idea of spreading democracy goes back to Trotsky who tried to spread communism through the Soviet Union. Their hatred toward Russia dates back to their ancestors feudal days under the Tsars and the pogroms they suffered and the ice pick Trotsky got to the head.

I don't think they have that much influence. They pushed a lot of nonsense in the late 70/early 80s about how the Taliban were George Washingtons and here we are today, they're worst than the Comanche. The last time I saw Richard Perle make a TV appearance, he was crying like a baby. Robert Novak, the prince of darkness, was a Ron Paul supporter. The only ones really kicking around are Bill Kristol and Jennifer Rubin, but Kristol was almost alone when he was talking about putting 50,000 boots on the ground in Syria. Rubin is a harpie who only got crazier and crazier. Kagan had his foot in the door with Hillary only because of his wife. Those two might get back in with Biden on Ukraine, but Biden would do well to keep them at a distance.

Mark K Logan

Thanks.

The lone bright spot is Biden's stated intention of restoring the JCPOA. And, I guess, the pending defenestration of Pompeo The Great.

I suspect the condition of the US economy and the massive deficits will assist in discouraging rash actions elsewhere. Have to wait and see.

Fred

Obama's deep state lied, people died:
https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2020/11/outgoing-syria-envoy-admits-hiding-us-troop-numbers-praises-trumps-mideast-record/170012/

It's great when career professionals sabotage the elected president's foreign policy.

JM Gavin

I've never quite figured out the "neocon" ideology, beyond the fact that neocons seem devoted to the sort of status quo present in Washington, D.C. during the three administrations prior to Trump. Military adventurism, nation-building, and interventionist foreign policy, all based on nebulous concepts which are applied unevenly around the world.

It seems now that there is a new breed of neocons, unified by opposition to Trump's messaging, but not much else. Odd to find people like Samantha Power, John Bolton, Jim Mattis, and Paul Wolfowitz marching together in perfect step.

The Beaver

Mr Geraldi

A good perspective by Philip Weiss on the same subject. Eliot A Cohen must be communicating a lot with the Kagan brothers , Dennis Ross and Perle to see who can be parachuted either to the WH or Foggy Bottom.

https://mondoweiss.net/2020/10/neoconservatives-are-flocking-to-biden-and-lets-forget-about-the-iran-deal/

BrianC

@JM Gavin

I've never quite figured out the "neocon" ideology

The revolutionary spirit (see E. Michael Jones’ work). From communism to neoconservatism it’s ultimately an attack on the Beatitudes and Christ’s Sermon on the Mount.

“The works of mercy are the opposite of the works of war” —Servant of God Dorothy Day

Mark K Logan

JM Gavin,

Sir,

I hold the Cold Warriors like Scoop a species distinct from those of the post-USSR era. The current version started at the end of the cold war. We felt like kings of the world after Gulf War 1 and the shoe seemed to fit.

The HW Bush administration pondered how best to use this power for good. I've read some things which report there was a debate within the administration on whether to clean up Yugoslavia or Somalia first. They got Ron to "do the honors" for the invasion of Somalia at Oxford: About 20 minutes in.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?35586-1/arising-ashes-world-order

That was played as part of the pep-talk on the Juneau off the coast of Somalia. Stirring stuff.

In some small way I never stopped sipping that Kool Aid. It's hard to stand by and watch unspeakable evil go down when you have the power to stop it...or think you do. Time will tell if the Neocons are capable of perceiving the limits of force. Certainly had some hard lessons in the last few decades.

EEngineer

@JM Gavin

Hogs lining up for a spot at the trough?

The Neocon movement seems to have morphed into nothing more than a club for bullies trying to one up each other.

Dan

I think its generally shocking that Trump or the republicans didn't make a bigger issue of Biden's history of supporting disastrous intervention, especially his Iraq War vote. Maybe they felt like its not a winning issue, that they would lose as many votes as they gain by appearing more isolationist.

But overall, Trump favoring diplomacy over cruise missiles should have been a bigger point in his favor in the election.

jerseycityjoan

It is distressing to read that we will have people in the government who are looking for a fight. That is especially true in view of China's aggression in recent years and the responses we will have to make to that. I think we will have more than enough to do to handle China. What do the neocons want to do about China?

Here is an article about China that really startled me and made me realize how much of a threat is was becoming. The Air Force chief of staff talks about the challenges of countries trying to compete militarily with us in ways that have not occurred for awhile. Here are two quotes that really got me:

"Tomorrow’s Airmen are more likely to fight in highly contested environments, and must be prepared to fight through combat attrition rates and risks to the nation that are more akin to the World War II era than the uncontested environments to which we have since become accustomed,” Brown writes."

And

"Wargames and modeling have repeatedly shown that if the Air Force fails to adapt, there will be mission failure, Brown warns. Rules-based international order may “disintegrate and our national interests will be significantly challenged,” according to the memo."

https://www.airforcemag.com/brown-air-force-must-speed-up-change-or-face-harsh-consequences/#.X02DjeMiZQM.mailto

The article doesn't say we will have another arms race but that is an obvious response to China's competition with us. I thought all that was done and gone. I do not want to resume it. I don't want another period of foreign entanglements, period. We still haven't paid for the War Against Terrorism. I look into the future and all I see is us racking up bills that we have no ability to pay. And then there is the human cost of all this, I don't want to even think about that.

turcopolier

jerseycityjoan

"I thought all that was done and gone. I do not want to resume it." Childish. "Only the dead have seen the end of war."

JM Gavin

EEngineer,

Snouts in the trough accounts for a certain amount of neocons, I'm sure. There is, however, a unifying vision beyond that which puzzles me, given the very different political orientations of various neocons. Neocons are found in academia and the media as well. Those types are less dependent on taxpayer dollars in exchange for their views (they'll get whatever tax money gets pushed their way in grants, etc regardless).

I find Polish Janitor's "straussian" and "liberal/internationalist" flavors of neocon intriguing, as I hadn't considered that before.

JMG

JM Gavin

COL Lang's quote from Plato reminds me of another (from Cormac McCarthy): “It makes no difference what men think of war, said the judge. War endures. As well ask men what they think of stone. War was always here. Before man was, war waited for him. The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner. That is the way it was and will be. That way and not some other way."

Neocons don't really prefer war, so much as they prefer overseas "engagements" that may look like war and smell like war. All that's missing in neocon military operations is a defined end state.

JMG

JM Gavin

Mark K. Logan,

I concur with your thoughts about standing by as evil occurs. We just have a habit of jumping into complex situations we don't understand, and making things worse. I suspect you feel the same way.

The military misadventures during my career (Somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen, Syria) were marked by our own black and white thinking. The more successful adventures (Colombia, Nepal) were marked by our appreciation (to a certain extent) of the complex nature of the environments we were getting involved in...and the fact that we weren't involved in nation-building in the latter two locales. There were viable governments in place, and we weren't trying to replace them.

JMG

Deap

Here is another Biden clip that should have been exploited too - way back when - when the media was a little more trusted, but no less pompous. However, Biden The Plagerizer had it coming.

Now tell me America is not the Land of Opportunity, when one can continuously shoot themselves in the foot and then rise from the dead yet again, and again: https://rumble.com/vb3c09-resurfaced-video-of-joe-biden-should-destroy-him.html?mref=23gga&mrefc=2

Though I am warming more and more to Trump Media becoming the real soul of America. Plus someone, in time. will need to pick up Rush Limbaugh's empire. America needs a counter-weight to fake news more than it needs the keys to the White House, with all its entangling webs, palace intrigues, chains and pitfalls.

Godspeed President Trump. If someone with as few talents s Biden can rise like Lazarus, just think what you can do with your little finger. No wonder the Democrats want Trump destroyed; not just defeated in a re-election. We have your back, Mr President.

TV

Mark Logan:
Iran celebrates "Death to America" as a national day.
So let's give them a path to nuclear weapons.

Deap

Ex-CIA analyst, Mich Rep. Elissa Slotkin refuses to back Pelosi for Speaker - anyone know her? https://www.newsmax.com/politics/elissa-slotkin-nancy-pelosi-democrat-house/2020/11/13/id/996905/ She wants more mid-West, and less Calif and NY, as the new face of the Democrat Party.

Fred

Mark,

"It's hard to stand by and watch unspeakable evil go down when you have the power to stop it...."


I hear Trump is evil/Hitler/worse. I wonder if anyone who thinks that is true has the power to rig an election, or thinks they do?

jerseycityjoan

Colonel,

You are right of course.

Are the people of America up for another arms race and a more or less cold war with China? I think the Chinese will give us a lot more trouble than the Soviets ever did.

And yet we allow their students to come here and learn all we know and their elites to bring their dirty money here and we give them green cards and citizenship and protect the money they took from the Chinese people. Not so smart on our part.

I am very concerned about all of this.

Serge

What is the next theater of war that Biden's new friends will involve us in? I noticed lots of Cold War era conflicts are heating up lately, Ethiopia Morocco Armenia being recent examples. IS in Syria/Iraq is still castrated due to the continued mass internment of their population base in the dozens of camps, but they have established thriving franchises in Africa and their other provinces continue to smolder.

Ishmael Zechariah

re: "Neocons don't really prefer war, so much as they prefer overseas "engagements" that may look like war and smell like war. All that's missing in neocon military operations is a defined end state."
JMG,

Perhaps neocons are all about furthering izzie goals to the detriment of USA national interests. Their desired "end state" is specified quite clearly in the israeli "Clean Break" and the USA "PNAC" manifestos. Ask a neocon about the USS Liberty and evaluate their (non)answer...

Ishmael Zechariah

Artemesia

Since you mentioned USS Liberty: In 2017 the author of this essay organized a group to meet at Arlington Cemetery with survivors and relatives of victims and survivors of Israel's attack on the Liberty. At the tombstone there, we read their names and acknowledged their sacrifice.

In September 2020 the TruNews network premiered a 4-hour documentary, Sacrificing Liberty,
https://www.trunews.com/stream/sacrificing-liberty-would-israel-sink-u-s-warship-in-strait-of-hormuz-and-blame-iran
featuring the testimony of those men who experienced first-hand the attack on the Liberty as well as the subsequent betrayal by US government, led by Lyndon B Johnson with the complicity of 4-star admiral John McCain, Jr., father of late senator John McCain. Under threat of imprisonment "or worse," the survivors of the Liberty attack were warned to tell no one of their experiences. They kept their silence for 53 years.

Sacrificing Liberty is now available for rent or purchase
https://www.sacrificingliberty.com

---
And yes, a primary characteristic of the neoconservatives is their support for Israel and the zionist ideology. Inasmuch as most of them dwell in the happier lands of the USA rather than in Israel, their purpose includes turning US culture and values into those of zionism.

Fakebot (above) mentioned that a lot of neocons traced their animus toward Russia to Trotskyism and Jewish victimology under the TSARS. Rabbi Henry Abramson hosts video lectures on Jewish history. In 2017 he presented a lecture on Theodor Herzl in which he stated that "the first wave of Russian Jewish immigrants to USA came voluntarily and with the intention to fit in. The second wave of Russian Jewish immigrants were forced, refugees, and they intended to change USA to fit their preferences." A member of the audience said in heavily accented English that "we agreed to leave Russia only after we were convinced that USA was changing to fit our values." [or words to that effect]
That video has since been removed from Abramson's archive.
(https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-adl-in-american-society/?showcomments#comment-2577286)

lux

Posted by: Ishmael Zechariah | 13 November 2020 at 09:54 PM

Perhaps, but that may only be the foreign blob angle. On other topics they are as American as apple pie.

Oxford Language cooperates with Google lately, Google search: neoconservatism definition:
noun: neoconservatism; plural noun: neoconservatisms; noun: neo-conservatism; plural noun: neo-conservatisms

a political ideology characterized by an emphasis on free-market capitalism and an interventionist foreign policy.
"neoconservatism emerged as a force in America in the 1980s"

_____________________________________________

What interests us here is Foreign Policy. In his article Philip Giraldi links to one on the topic.

Michele Flournoy: Queen of the Blob, July 7, 2020, Kelley Beaucar Vlahos
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/state-of-the-union/michele-flournoy-queen-of-the-blob/

Now as Phil Weiss reports a lot of desires have been fulfilled, maybe more than wanted already in Trump's first term, just as the Neocons and their friends weren't completely absent. Question: Would we have seen a more coherent US Iran strategy, had Flynn not been targeted? More sanctions only?

_____________________________________________


Neoconservativism in a Nutshell, March 24, 2016, Jim Lobe

https://lobelog.com/neoconservativism-in-a-nutshell/

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been saved. Comments are moderated and will not appear until approved by the author. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment

Comments are moderated, and will not appear until the author has approved them.

Your Information

(Name and email address are required. Email address will not be displayed with the comment.)

My Photo

November 2020

Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21
22 23 24 25 26 27 28
29 30          
Blog powered by Typepad