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06 November 2020

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JohnH

It does not appear that there are any federal ballot design standards, and it’s not likely that there will be. https://www.npr.org/2016/11/06/500678100/the-art-of-the-vote-who-designs-the-ballots-we-cast

However, the companies that provide the readers certainly have standards to facilitate processing. Unique watermarks certainly sounds good, but truly secure watermarks would add a lot of cost. I doubt that this could have been implemented suddenly without knowledge and budget approval by election authorities in each state.

In our state, each envelope has a unique bar code on it, linked to an individual voter. Fraudulent votes with unknown bar code numbers would be automatically rejected. Ballots themselves contain no unique identifier linking a voter to the way he voted (a good thing.)

If tabulated ballots come only from envelopes with known, unique numbers, I see no problem

Leith

Fred - Poll watchers of both parties were in the TCF in Michigan during the vote count.

ponderer

I'd like to believe this story is true. I can't speak to its validity, but the post office does sort their mail using vision systems so it is definitely possible that water marks could be picked up that the human eye could not. There have been rumors for decades about printers doing this in the case someone tried to literally "print money".
https://www.pcworld.com/article/229647/counterfeit_money_on_color_laser_printers.html

It strikes me as the sort of thing that if we don't do it now, we should start. Those who laugh this off as impossible apparently haven't pressed the button to track their shipment on anything, ever. Compared to handwriting deciphering, QR codes are child's play. Logically, I think that the states only using about 5 different companies to print their ballots makes this much easier. Not an expert but I have worked with industrial Vision systems and I think technically its feasible. I couldn't dismiss the story offhand which can usually be done when the media starts talking about "technology". I do recognize I have enough bias it might just be wishful thinking on my part. We'll know soon.

Diad

I think they might want the media and everyone to call it. Dig a hole they can't get out of.

Fred

Leith,

Not for the entire time votes were being counted nor were they treated the same. Try again.

B.Jack Maness

As an ex small time printer, I feel most printers get their paper from a specific paper supply company which is very limited. I think if a head of state wanted to, he or she could use his or her office to have all paper pre-watermarked, don't know much about block chain other than you have to have a code. One article on this states Trump applied and received a code to use a designated blockchain. Tracing would not be hard, it has to be scanned, I do believe all are ! My point being most paper comes from one supplier, so all "could be" pre-watermarked and pre coded and all are scanned when counted. I see this as rather easy task if one has the Power of Presidential Office of the USA

Jeff E Kujala

You're looking at it the wrong way you don't see the trees because of the forest, you're right the states do print their own ballots, but think where are they getting the official paper from? All from one centrally-controlled location

James Rufem

I don't believe anything I see on YouTube. Also, I did notice the following recent post on a government cybersecurity webpage https://www.cisa.gov/rumorcontrol Unless they are lying (as part of the sting) doesn't sound like the story is real. Drat Q again!

Paula Banas

If this is true then awesome

B

The POTUS could have as well printed both "original" and so called "fake". Just saying.

turcopolier

All it has been my custom to cross post on FB. they removed J's article today.

ponderer

@Nicole
Regarding technical feasibility, you're right it doesn't make sense to have a printed block chain used for proof of identity in the exact way he is describing. The above mentioned patent is actually for using a mail ballot in conjunction with a cell phone or other electronic device just as you describe. I'm not sure about this guy.. but it may be that he is not a technical person and is relating how it was relayed to him.
If you printed a unique watermark on every ballot that was encrypted in some manner to store secret data regarding the ballot, especially if there were multiple marks some that were printed and some that were "stamped" into the paper you could use such markings to determine if the ballots had been manipulated. If someone copied a ballot to say print many like it you would detect the repeated water mark. The adversary would have to break the encryption to be able to reproduce valid looking ballots. That would entirely eliminate printing ballots.
How would that prevent harvesting ballots of people that have moved or otherwise illegally used actual ballots? It wouldn't but if you know in advance which ballots are legitimate by say knowing who has moved out of state and who has died, perhaps with some number of purposely seeded fakes, then you have the possibility tracing those to particular invalid voters assuming there is enough information known about the destination when the ballot is printed. I don't think any of us know the answer to that question. My point is that while he may be off on the specifics, he may be right about a general system of detecting invalid votes that would actually work.

LJ

Recent patent and once you go to the link there is also a link to a 47 page PDF file
I would not be surprised if all of this is true.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20200258338A1/en

Bobby b.

Eric- blockchain, not global positioning system. You're comparing a wrench with a banana. Nicole - cool that you know a typical use for blockchain, now expand upon your little box. Did Diffie-Hellman do their maths yesterday? I suppose based on this logic in here.

Fred

Col.,

They are crafting the narrative and suppressing the news, just like they did with Hunter's laptop. Social scoring is probably getting rolled out next year. Glad to see all that courage in action in the Senate regarding section 230.

G

How is the blockchain watermark useful if it can’t be scanned? Except for it left place Y and returned to place Z? In between those times my ballot could have gone to the wrong place, or I lost it, or I threw it out. I could have turned it in in person, I could have mailed it, it could have been harvested. So dumb they don’t know where every ballot is cuz there’s no technology to track all that. But it could be used to determine real ballots from counterfeit ones I suppose, if I bought into thus bs, which I don’t.

EEngineer

@ponderer

Modern laser consumer grade printers do tag each page with a few extra pixels that encode their serial number so that law enforcement can match a document to a specific print. Most people/organizations register their printer with the manufacturer when they install the driver. I can't speak for professional grade printers.

If someone literally scanned and printed their own ballots it would be a self-documented crime akin to the fools who upload videos of themselves bragging about their escapades. Paper is of course, very good at collection fingerprints in any case.

The real question is: will the appropriate authorities look? IE, where is Mr Barr?

Mark Panquist

https://streamable.com/k4nfbw

It is possible but IDK about the tracing aspect but blockchain can be loaded physical medium.


Blockchain is possible of course digitally but I wondered if it could be on PHYSICAL MEDIUM like paper, AND IT IS!!!

Search this paper: The Impact of the Blockchain Goes Beyond Financial Services

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________


3D printing is proving to be another revolutionary technology that is moving manufacturing closer to users and bringing new life to mass customization. But today, makers still need centralized platforms to sell their wares and have trouble protecting the IP of their creations.

>>>>With blockchain, data and rights holders could store metadata about any substance, from human cells to powered aluminum, on the blockchain, in turn opening up the limits of corporate manufacturing while also protecting intellectual property. <<<<<

New markets could enable buyers and sellers to contract more easily in an open market.

Mark Panquist

Here is some more about blockchain being used for stopping art fraud.

Search:
Blockchain Isn’t Enough to Solve the Authenticity of Physical Artworks

Versiart is also focusing on provenance on the blockchain — creating secure digital certificates for art and collectibles and building a new global standard for art certification and verification. All records in Verisart are immutably stored in the blockchain and timestamped, allowing for detailed information and files to be attached to the record with privacy and easy access.

Verisart also relies on provenance without a secure way to permanently attach a digital certificate to the physical item

Rhonda

Seems improbable, as described. However, I can think of several ways to actually track. For example, the paper's a weak link. Special paper means few suppliers...

Voatboy

Sir:
Sidney Powell says she has seen evidence of tremendous corruption and I do not believe that she will abandon the fight.

https://texags.com/forums/16/topics/3154585

If I understand her correctly, 80 percent of Federal office holders can plausibly be accused of corruption.

I don't know whether Pieczenik is a red herring. He might be repeating hearsay regarding topics he does not understand. I trust General Flynn and the people on his side.

D

If true, why talk about the sting now. Wait for it to come to light. And Trump just looks pissed and tired so I doubt this water mark is true. I wouldn't be that all pissed if you can authenticate a legit vote.

DJ

The fact that 10’s of thousands of people would go to his rallies some would spend the night before in line waiting to get in - rain, heat, cold or snow. The people I heard on talk radio, on Twitter or FB that never voted before or walked away from Dem party. The endorsements he received from all over - he expanded black, Cuban, Latino, Hispanic votes, women and men, enthusiasm was thru the roof and we are supposed to believe he lost. I don’t think so. Statistically should have been a landslide in his direction. Then he has huge leads in 6-7 states and they decide to shut everything down instead of counting until finished, and mysteriously 138,000, 250,000, 40,000 in WI 1,000,000 more ballots were calculated than they had registered voters - in all cases just happened to be 100% Biden. Explain that?

jerseycityjoan

The Daily Beast says this is a QAnon theory.

"The 2020 election results have shaken the faith of QAnon believers. Some have taken to despair. Others have begun promoting new conspiracy theories, such as one that alleges that ballot “watermarks” will save the election for Trump."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/qanon-lost-confused-trump-election-024731136.html

BillWade

I'm not trying to sound defeatist (the election isn't over yet) but I'd hope to see an article written by a pro along the lines of "how to survive in a post-Trump era". My specific worries are:

-Further severe Covid19 lock downs like what's happening in Europe now

-25 amendment with Biden forced out and Harris putting HRC in as VP

-Capital gains tax increases and elimination of the Trump tax cuts

-Klaus Schwab and his pronouncement "by 2030 you will own nothing
and you will be happy" The Great Reset.

Depressing, sorry

BillWade, Free State of Florida

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