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30 October 2020

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Jim Henely

On the positive side, COVID seems to have all but cured the seasonal flu, and has greatly diminished other mortalities across the board. If we are not careful, the year 2020 will end with the annual all cause mortality rate being about the same, or lower than the recent preceding years. Can anyone weigh in with a plausible explanation?

Diana L Croissant

I liked that you used the phrase "Cowboy up" in your suggestion to the powers that be to grow some courage (or some whatever) in relieving the populace of all the requirements that have been put into place supposedly for our own good---whether we feel the need for them or not.

I live only 50 miles from Cheyenne, WY, the home of the annual Cheyenne Frontier Days celebrations. Sadly, last summer many of those events were canceled---by cowboys. I read that currently some of those cowboys have indeed begun planning for the type of celebrations those Frontier Days once were. (Frontier Days was known to be a really rowdy celebration. We once thought we had permanently lost one of our roommates in college to that celebration. She was from Wyoming and had gone back to Wyoming for that week after first celebrating the Fourth of July rodeo and other celebrations in our town and then moving on after Cheyenne Frontier Days to Fort Collins, CO's College Days, another quite rowdy celebration involving beer and cowboy style line dancing at the many dance halls there.

Most of us here are so very tired of the masks. In our town, most coffee shops, restaurants and places of business are open, though it is because of the mask mandate that they were allowed by our Governor to open. But how in the heck can one drink coffee and/or eat anything with a mask on? No one wears them at the table no matter how many are seated. My church shut down really only for two weeks, as we are a congregation that thinks for ourselves. Many other churches are still closed for whatever reason they can think of. They are congregations that seem to follow the rules of their national or state organization.

Some day soon I hope I won't have to wear one whenever I step out of my apartment. I rip it off, however, the minute I am outside. We are not NY or DC; so our sidewalks and streets are usually pretty darned empty. Heck, I go for long walks just for the privilege of not having to wear a mask outside. I can't wait for the time that I don't feel like I'm getting away with breaking some rule when I am not wearing a mask outside, since many people here still do. They do need to grow some and cowboy up.

Fred

"So why are governments around the world persisting in,..."

One factor the Dr. leaves out is that many in power are using their governments to control political opponents, drive their opponents supporters into bankruptcy, and thus enable 'crisis' that would allow them to legislate into action changes that would never gain traction through the normal legislative process.

English Outsider

Colonel - at least some of our problems in the UK are not due to government measures and I've seen no attempt to break down the figures.

For example the drop in patients seeking medical attention is obviously in part due to medical practices and hospitals discouraging or postponing needed non-Covid medical care.

But we don't know how much the drop is also due to many not wanting to go into medical practices or hospitals for fear of catching Covid.

Similarly the drop in takings in UK restaurants and pubs must mainly be due to restrictions imposed by government. But it also due to customers choosing to stay at home for fear of catching Covid.

I've just been hearing from a friend about the catastrophic knock-on effect for concert halls and opera houses in Germany. The position is no doubt similar here. But even were performances to continue as normal, no restrictions, how many would attend?

And similarly for air travel and even for normal shopping, particularly shopping for non-essentials.

This pandemic is therefore going to knock the UK economy sideways and will do so whatever public health measures are taken or advised by HMG.

As for those public health measures I believe that the current heavily politicised debate in the UK that sees the problem in terms of either lockdown or let it rip is a false debate; and that what we need in the UK are public health measures, and welfare measures, more accurately targeted and above all locally administered.

I'd like to have seen Dr Lee's article take in those two points.

Rudy

They have to know it's all b.s. All the unnecessary restrictions are to maintain the illusion that covid is so bad that it justifies changing MANY ways we live and do business, instituting medical tyranny over our very movements, forced compliance with every type of poison they can cook up to sell..Major changes just around the corner, and all without need, just what the powerful want to better control and surveil us all.

Fred

English,

"hospitals discouraging or postponing needed non-Covid medical care."

How much of that was due to government order? My Michigan dentist was shutdown for all but emergency care for more than 3 months by Gretchen Whitmer. That had nothing to due with stopping Covid19. They are still months behind in general screenings.

Have you heard about events across the Channel. Apparently the French are bound and determined to destroy their country's economy with another lockdown:
https://twitter.com/MichaelEWebber/status/1321878671213416448
https://www.france24.com/en/france/20201029-french-pm-details-new-restrictions-as-country-heads-back-into-lockdown

Bill H

I have not been going anywhere near the medical establishment and have skipped the normal twice annual screenings for my heart and lung problems. Not because I fear catching the virus. Been there, done that, and had no serious difficulty with it.

The reason is that I want nothing to do with what I perceive to be an utterly shattered health care system, staffed by panic stricken, emotionally crippled workers. They are interviewed daily on television, weeping about how difficult it is for them to bear the pain of being constantly surrounded by sickness and death. What did they think working in a hospital was going to be about?

If it causes me a premature death so be it. I am a social being, and interacting with faceless zombies through plexiglass barriers is just not working for me.

walrus

SO FAR, Australia’s lockdown has worked. I’ve just experienced 100+ days of it. It’s a PITA. BUT we are now down to donut days - no new cases, no deaths most of the time. Yes, it has cost the economy. It has especially cost the services and retail sector, but that is now changing as we reopen.

We are helped by the Federal budget having been in surplus - which has allowed relatively generous unemployment and compensation payments. Some businesses have made the switch to online and are going gangbusters. New businesses have started out of the remains of others. My impression is that the economy is rebounding fast.

However “lockdown” is totally useless without excellent and very fast contact testing and tracing and secondly an effective system of containment for identified contacts. Unless you have all three, you are wasting your time.

our problems are still (1) The criminal classes, who don’t give a .....l..

(2) Immigrant groups whose women are kept illiterate uneducated and suppressed and whose men have no time for Australian law and put their faith in God.

Political correctness has hampered getting that group to comply.

Fred

Walrus,

"Some businesses have made the switch to online and are going gangbusters"
And the ones that didn't were what, driven into insovlency because your government forbid them to operate?

"New businesses have started out of the remains of others."
So you creatively destroyed businesses and the employees got "unemployment and compensation payments" and are still forbidden to work and entirely dependent upon the goodwill of goverment apparatchiks. So little in exchange for so much for freedom.

"our problems are still (1) The criminal classes, who don’t give a ..."

According to your government those who oppose the lockdowns are members of the criminal class and get fined and arrested for disobedience to the state. The rich are destroying the middle class with the aid of government which they run using a very survivable viral infection as a tool of terror. Congratulations on destroying the rights of your fellow citizens.

Science!:Great Barrington Declaration, purged by Goolag but briefly on the BBC: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54442386

Of course you did get to read "what gets people worked up are four Cartier watches being distributed to some of the top executives at Australia Post."
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-23/australia-post-chair-says-cartier-watches-cost-20000/12809000
Good thing your Senate has the right priorities. Apparently your press is still not beholden solely to one political group, unlike ours.


turcopolier

fred

Walrus is a dual Australia/US national.

akaPatience

Behavior that English Outsider describes in his comment is behavior I've witnessed myself here in the Midwestern US: peoples' failure to patronize bars & restaurants, shops, etc.; less demand for air travel; reluctance to seek medical treatment and so forth. Cultural events where I live have all been cancelled, but I agree with EO that some patrons would be reluctant to attend anyway.

However, Dr. Lee addressed this. Number 3 on his list is FEAR.

Media report on C-19 around the clock here, and almost always with a lack of perspective and with the intent to scare people, repeatedly showcasing anecdotal cases of extreme C-19 effects in order to frighten people in spite of the odds against it happening. NBC even gave a TREMENDOUS amount of airtime to a doctor who claimed to have suffered devastating effects from Covid but who was later revealed - not by the MSM but by conservative news sites - NOT to have had the virus after all!

It's tragic to see the financial ruin small businesses all around me are suffering. I live in a downtown area that's normally bustling but's been like a ghost town for months. Employers fear liability if they require their employees to work in the office instead of isolated at home. This alone has had a devastating trickle down effect.

IMO fear mongering has gone to the heads of authoritarian types who are relishing their power over people, power like nothing I've ever witnessed before.

Artemesia

Walrus: "our problems are still (1) The criminal classes, who don’t give a .......
(2) Immigrant groups whose . . .men have no time for Australian law and put their faith in God.
Political correctness has hampered getting that group to
comply."

Thank god.

By the way, you say Australia is "down to donuts," so "criminality" plus that god thing must be working equally well as government oppression.

Does that suggest to you that Compliance, rather than healthy citizens is the goal?

walrus

Fred and Artemesia, By “criminal classes” I do not mean people not complying with covid rules, I mean drug dealers, car thieves,, burglars and other thieves that my son and his colleagues in the police force have to deal with daily.

The second group “immigrants” means recent muslim immigrants who are also well represented in the first group. It is no accident that we have had two outbreaks traced back to islamic colleges. The morons seem to think covid is BS, act accordingly, and spread infection. The government was initially too PC to target the specific covid messages to this group. 700+ people have died as a result of what these a-holes did or didn’t do.

Despite your paranoia, the government is not part of some worldwide conspiracy to pollute our vital fluids. We are on top of Covid because we decided to get on top of Covid and if the price is the closure of a few tanning salons and dog groomers then good riddance. The supermarkets are making good money, as are other businesses like IT. Retail was on a downward trajectory anyway thanks to Amazon.

As I said, the economy is bouncing back anyway in our state and it never got bad in the other states. I note your own economy is also growing fast as noted in another topic.

English Outsider


Fred - on the initial handling of the disease in the UK I follow the verdict of Dr Richard North. In addition to being the UK expert on Brexit he's also had practical experience of public health work at various levels. His verdict on that early handling - we screwed up.

I have earlier submitted links to Dr North's articles on the virus as it was dealt with in the UK to the Colonel's site. The reasons for the UK failure, very briefly, are that we didn't have the right admin and physical infrastructure, the prepared plans for such a pandemic were wrong back to the Blair years, we didn't act fast enough, our underlying approach was wrong. I shan't go into the further reasons for that last but as I understand them there's a conflict here between the "Let it rip but don't clog up the hospitals" and the "Knock it on the head wherever it pops up" approach and the first won.

I think I've got that right but it's history anyway. So's the next bit, the first UK lockdown. That was a "Hail Mary" response to an unknown risk. It was a very panicky time so I can live with that.

The important thing is what should happen after lockdown. Walrus above gives an answer which is by the way in line with that given by Dr North -"However “lockdown” is totally useless without excellent and very fast contact testing and tracing and secondly an effective system of containment for identified contacts. Unless you have all three, you are wasting your time."

In the UK we're not so hot on all three of those. My belief - and I'm only talking about the UK here - is that the centralised health system we've got in the UK is not up to doing that well and that's not something can be put right in a hurry. They blame Johnson for that but I doubt any of the politicians attacking him would do much better given that inherent and historic defect in the UK approach to public health. That's a personal view, I should add, not one derived from any of the experts I've read.

So we've perforce been "wasting our time" as Walrus says and are lumbered with another national lockdown. Pretty tight too. Damn. I've just been booking delivery time for internet deliveries and find everyone else has been too. And with relatives all over the place outside the UK that's going to be another few months before we get to see them again. Damn again.

One of my sons has had it, by the way, and has skated past it with no more than a headache. None of this "Long Covid" either thank the Lord. But I myself am skating round the subject here and feel I'm being a bit dishonest. I should come straight out with it and say I comprehensively disagree with any sort of "let it rip" policy that might be advocated. Any advanced country should be able to do a lot better than that and I'd much prefer to see that curve crushed rather than flattened.

And I do so regret seeing what should be purely a matter of the correct public health approach getting mixed up with politics, in both countries too. Here, the Covid disaster has weakened the PM just at the time when he should be standing firm against the EU. Over your way it's being used as a means of attacking President Trump - when aren't they doing that? - and putting at risk what should have been the dead cert of his re-election.

Not that disastrous. If our PM gets rolled over by the EU we can always put it right later. And I still expect Trump to win. But as I have attempted to say in my first comment above, and returning now to the case of the UK only, the economic consequences of this pandemic here, let alone the human consequences, are going to be serious whatever the politicians now do.

Fred

walrus,

"the government is not part of some worldwide conspiracy to pollute our vital fluids." I too watched Dr. Stranglove. That line was humourous in 1960whatever when it first came out.

"if the price is the closure of a few tanning salons and dog groomers then good riddance. The supermarkets are making good money, as are other businesses like IT. Retail was on a downward trajectory anyway thanks to Amazon."

Says millionaire on his estate outside of town.

"To minimize suffering and to maximize security were natural and proper ends of society and Caesar. But then they became the only ends, somehow, and the only basis of law—a perversion. Inevitably, then, in seeking only them, we found only their opposites: maximum suffering and minimum security."

--Walter Miller, A Canticle for Leibowitz

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