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04 October 2020

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Babak makkinejad

That was analogous to what happened to the properties & belongings of Pontics when Ataturk expelled them to Greece from their ancestral home of 2500 years, to the Turk's who were expelled to Turkey from Greece, to the American Loyalists who were expelled to Canada, to the Jews of Europe and the Arab world, to the Armenians and, I imagine, to numerous people all over the world throught Historical Progress.

It goes to show you that Jews are just like everyone else, and not some sort of Special People; contrary to what so many Protestants in the WASP Culture Continent believe.

turcopolier

babak

Yes, not different from other people.

JohninMK

I read an account by a Professor from Chicago who took a trip through Germany straight after the war ended. My strongest memory of his report was his description of the Zeiss factory in Stuttgart. Anything resembling a binocular was missing. But the factory floors were littered with considerably more valuable and expensive but bust microscopes and other scientific gear. Trampled underfoot in the rush to get, as you say, souvenirs.

Whilst France and the UK did similar and were closer, the US had by far the most efficient and effective loot repatriation system. This applying to both personal stuff and the legal/technical/patents etc that specialist units went hunting for. The airbrushing or minimising these events as far as possible from history, so as to not upset the general German population, was one of the very good strategic reasons why so many of the 'managers' of the Third Reich continued in positions of power into the 50s and beyond.

turcopolier

james

none of your business what I quote.

turcopolier

james

Ah, I see. Sensitive about Israel. a hasbara. if you think you are going to intimidate me about Israel, you are a sad sack of ...

Serge

Reminds me pf an article I read ealier this year:When the jews left Tunisia en masse in the 60s for France and Israel, many left their property behind in haste, often very valuable property that was seized and sold on the black market by other Tunisians after years of vacancy. Since 2011 some jews in Israel/France have reclaimed their deeded property, most choose to sell it back to the new owners of course.
https://www.thejc.com/news/features/the-tunisian-lawyer-moché-uzan-helping-to-rescue-jewish-homes-1.498862

turcopolier

Serge

At the Oran naval base the FLN brought the Algerian base workers, welders, etc. down to the pier as the last French Navy ship pulled away. They cut all their throats and threw the still thrashing bodies into the water alongside the ship.

English Outsider

Colonel - that stirred a dim memory of a novel I'd seen referred to somewhere long ago about the Nakba. Very dim - it took me a while to track it down. Ethel Mannin - the Road to Beersheba. Apparently written as an attempt to put the record straight after "Exodus" came out, the book describes the ethnic cleansing that accompanied the first Arab-Israeli war.

Ethel Mannin was a popular novelist. Now long forgotten, or at least I've never seen her referred to elsewhere. Google comes up with some references -

https://kar.kent.ac.uk/65768/1/The%20First%20Nakba%20Novel%20Rooney%20(1).pdf

On the end of the second World War, the family had elderly relatives who had lived through that initial time of occupations, some in what was to become the Eastern Zone and some in the Western. Not all experienced the depredations you mention. We inherited some nineteenth century silver that had been buried when it was clear which way things were going. When it was recovered, some time later, it had been a sad return to the garden where it had been hidden in - the house had been bombed and had burned to the ground.

The occupation in the East was I think the worst. Some had hidden themselves in a little space behind the chimney breast when the troops entered their town. Almost in passing, as they told of those times, they mentioned they had not slept the first night for the screaming.

They were lucky. They got out soon afterwards and escaped to the British Zone. They went back to visit old friends soon after Die Wende. They found they had grown very far apart.

Colonel - I wish all that were just history. But the Syrians and many others have experienced worse in our times, and some still living it. So it continues. Presumably such events as those will get their novels and remembered stories too.

Serge

Colonel
Not surprising, knowing Algerians and the circumstances of the tail end of that war both. Your anecdote is evocative of Hemingway's On The Quai At Smyrna:
"The Greeks were nice chaps too. When they evacuated they had all their baggage animals they couldn't take off with them, so they just broke their forelegs and dumped them in the shallow water"

turcopolier

Serge

I once lived a couple of blocks from there in Izmir.

James

Soldiers loot? Yes - but usually only what they can carry. In Iraq, UK forces were searched before they were recovered; anyone found with loot was punished.

It's difficult to think of many other theatres in which the civilian inhabitants had their homes looted from them (West Sahara and Northern Cyrpus, perhaps.)

"I am not surprised that Israeli soldiers of the Palmach, Hagganah, Irgun, Stern Gang, etc." The Irgun and the Stern Gang were not soldiers; they were terrorists.

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