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11 September 2020


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Eric Newhill

Offtrail is a Canadian from a little town in the BC woods.

Chuck Light

What amazes me is how those who are vehemently opposed to universal vote by mail seem to purposely ignore those examples (and there are in fact many) of states who purposely use vote by mail as the best possible system. It is as if because the president says it is bad, you are free to ignore the many examples of where it works. Slavish adherence to the president's views is just purposeful ignorance, IMHO.

The State of Colorado has had statutorily mandated vote by mail since 2013. Those who say Colorado is a small state, and it cannot be replicated in states with larger populations, can look to California, the state with the largest population in the United States. While California does not, as Colorado does, mandate vote by mail, it does mail ballots to all registered voters who ask for them, and if my memory serves, over 40% of registered voters in California voted by mail in the 2016 elections. This year California will mail ballots to all registered voters around October 3, and I will bet more than 60% of those ballots will either be returned by mail, deposited in a drop box, or cast at a local voting precinct.

But back to Colorado. All registered voters are automatically mailed ballots a few weeks before the election. Those who wish to can return their ballots by mail. Those who don't trust the mails (thanks, Postmaster General DeJoy) can simply deposit their completed ballots in any of 150 or more drop boxes distributed throughout the State. Those who wish to cast their ballots in person can do so at a polling center or voting precinct location. BTW, it does not matter whether you are a Democrat or a Republican. Colorado's system is non-partisan.

In the 2016 election, there were 3,042,589 active registered voters in Colorado as of 08/31/2016. As of 08/31/2020 there are 3,541,334 active registered voters in Colorado, an increase of approximately half a million new actively registered voters.

According to the article linked below, 0.00027 percent of all votes cast in the 2018 midterm elections were referred for further review as questionable. According to the same article, Judicial Watch conducted an audit of all ballots cast since mail in voting in Colorado became state law in 2013. As a result of the audit, Judicial Watch found 7 (as in SEVEN) ballots that Judicial Watch considered fraudulent!

The president votes by mail. Those who seek to say voting absentee is OK, but voting by mail will lead to fraud, ignore the fact that those who vote absentee and those who vote by mail both vote the same way -- by mail.

What is apparent to me is that the attacks on vote by mail are just another tactic intended to cast doubt on the validity of the elections. If I were a conspiracy theorist, I would posit that the Russians put the president up to this. But he doesn't need Russian help on this one. The Republican party is unified in its efforts to discourage voting, in the hopes that Democrats will become disillusioned and decide not to participate. Pretty cynical in my view, and somehow un-American.

Read this article. I know it is "fake news," but read it anyway. You might learn something.




Trump himself is an absentee ballot voter. Do banks hire handwriting experts to verify check signatures? That’s a silly argument, IMO. Signatures are verified all the time by many private sector businesses as well as government agencies. Is it foolproof? Of course not but it is better than voting at a polling station with electronic machines and stations where identity is not verified. At least you have to get the signature reasonably correct. I have voted at polling stations where no identification was required.

I can see the argument that mailing out ballots to everyone on the voter roll if that is not vetted and verified could lead to opportunities for others to vote that ballot.

Don’t candidates have their representatives at the counting stations to verify accuracy of the count including absentee ballot signatures?

Chuck Light

BTW, for those who believe that Florida permits absentee voting but not vote by mail, the following is from the Florida Elections website:

"What’s the difference between a vote-by-mail ballot and an absentee ballot?

Nothing. In Florida, the term “absentee ballot” was replaced by “vote-by-mail ballot” in state statutes in 2016 because it more accurately reflects the fact that Florida does not require voters to have an excuse (such as being absent) to vote by mail."

Florida made this change before the last presidential election.


Chuck Light

So, how many hundreds of thousands of votes will be harvested that way?


Chuck Light

"You might learn something." This is clear and snotty ad hominem. If you do it again you will be banned.

Eric Newhill

No. You are yet another making a false equivalency between voting by mail and some other process in our society. No one is reading the signature on a bank check. That process works because if someone forges a check, the victim - the account holder from which the money was withdrawn - will notice that money was withdrawn against his account for a check he did not write. A police investigation can then be started and the forger can be arrested.

With the election, the delegates must cast their vote on Dec 14th and the POTUS is sworn in in January. There is not time to investigate - and who would notice each and every forged vote in the first place?

If the POTUS is sworn in, do you really think that after a year or more of investigating - and even prosecuting - that the POTUS would be removed and replaced with the true winner? As Biden would say, come on maaaaaaaaaaaan.

I note that our resident lefties keep insisting that mail-in is the same as absentee voting. You did too. It isn't. Once again, some states have little experience with this and none have experience with the expected volumes. Things like that matter in the IT world.

I happen to know a lot about software that allegedly can read text, like signatures and I can tell you that it isn't all that great. I already wrote that, but you chose to ignore it; or just assume that your uninformed opinion is of equal weight to my informed opinion. If you say it enough times, it doesn't become real, you know.

Eric Newhill

Chuck Light,
You are ignoring that fact that it takes a while to get these things right. Look at the screw-ups with something as simple and inconsequential as the initial ACA (Obamacare) enrollment. They had how long to get that right? Btw, I was there on the insurance side seeing the screw-ups. So don't tell me that it's all a rightwing fake news meme. But go ahead. Please tell me what the states are doing to make it work, in detail please.

Eric Newhill

Ah Florida...that bastion of integrity in voting. I seem to recall a lot of democrats crying foul back in 2000 over Florida voting practice standards. Yes. I'm sure they have it all worked out now.

Btw...Florida not = the entire country. Tell me about PA and WI and MI and OH and other swing states.

Antoinetta III

It seems like a challenge to mail-in voting could be done on the basis that mail-in voting undermines the right to a SECRET ballot.

In traditional poll-voting, one enters the poll, is given a ballot, and then proceeds to a private voting booth. After marking the ballot, the voter then deposits it in a sealed box, without the ballot being seen by anybody.

With mail-in voting, the ballots are sent to people's homes, and largely, voted on there. This leaves plenty of room for family members to pressure other family members or friends as to how to vote. Pressure from employers or co-workers also becomes possible.

It would be nice if Trump or someone could get this to the Supreme Court in an expedited manner. It would be REALLY nice if the Supreme Court threw out mail-in voting over the privacy-secret ballot issue.

Antoinetta III

Chuck Light

At the risk of being banned, I can only say that no ad hominem attack was intended. I did not direct that remark to anyone in particular, but mean the comment to be directed generally to those who voice what appears to be political opposition to a successful method of voting. I was trying to point out only that the article which I linked to had a great deal of information, primarily about the success of vote by mail in Colorado, but also about vote by mail in general.

As for specifics, there are as far as I can tell five states, small states but states nonetheless, which have had vote by mail systems in place for some years, and have had no problems with them.

In addition to those states, which include Alaska, Colorado, Hawai'i, Utah and Washington (as I recall Washington has used vote by mail for 20 years or so), Florida has had a vote by mail system in place since 2016, and apparently requires no excuse to vote by mail, as it used to require before the 2016 changes to the election statutes. As I understand it, Florida is a toss-up state, and I have not heard of any Republicans calling for an end to vote by mail. In fact, as I recall, Governor DeSantis specifically requested that the president stop voicing his opposition to vote by mail because the president's opposition was creating problems within the party in Florida.

Arizona is also going full vote by mail this year, as is Nevada. I live in California, where I have voted by mail in every election since I retired here in 2013. Prior to this year in California, a voter could request vote by mail when registering to vote or when obtaining a driver's license. This year, principally because of COVID, California will adopt the Colorado system and mail ballots to every registered voter in the first week in October. As is permitted in Colorado, and as far as I know in most states which use vote by mail, voters can mail their ballots, or put them in drop boxes, or take them to a precinct voting site and vote in person.

There is, unfortunately, a lot of disinformation about the vote by mail system, which has led many people to believe that it will result in extensive voter fraud. All I can say in that regard is that there is no evidence of significant voter fraud in states which use vote by mail. As I pointed out earlier, and as is pointed out in the article to which I linked, Judicial Watch, no bastion of socialism, could find only seven instances of voter fraud when it audited Colorado's system going back six or seven years, and involving more than 50 million votes.

A point of personal privilege if I may. I have noted how you have used Democrat/Socialist to describe Democrats, a group to which I belong. I humbly take umbrage to what I will call snark, because I am not a Socialist, and I do not believe most Democrats are socialists. If I were a Republican, I am pretty sure I would be an Eisenhower Republican. I would assume that you, Sir, would take umbrage if I referred to all Republicans as Fascists. I will try to avoid making comments which you might construe as personal attacks (my father taught me to respect my elders, and thus I must, even though we are almost contemporaries), and it is my hope that you will be able to avoid similar attacks on my political beliefs.

Yours in hope of reasonable discussions.


chuck light

It is a favorite technique of the propagandist to misquote someone and then comment on the false quote. I have not called all Democrats "socialists." They are allied with the socialists and anarchists and that is bad enough.


Whether the forthcoming U.S. election is free and fair or not, it seems very unlikely that it will be perceived as such by those who voted for the candidate who does not take office. If it were the goal of someone to sow disorder in the United States, would that not be a desirable outcome in and of itself, irrespective of whether or not they had a dog in the race?

Call me old fashioned, but my suggestion is that those of you who know how to pray do so, and those of you who don't know how to but are concerned for the welfare of your brothers and sisters learn.


Ray Stevens on Voter Fraud

Ray Stevens - Grandpa Voted Democrat

And speaking of lockdowns

Ray Stevens - "The Quarantine Song" (Live on Larry's Country Diner, 2020)

And Ray's warning to all

Ray Stevens - Red Hot Chili Cookoff


Interesting picture of Old Joes left hand. Is that a recent blood draw, IV portal site or just a sore. Looking at the rest of the hand I see no age spots, or whatever you call them, which is rare at his age though you see them all over his face. Pure speculation on my part but would be interested in hearing the intended view.
Now in person voting, mail in, internet voting or other future mannerisms in voting still is not raising the percentage of voters versus legible voters. To me seeing blue thumbs in Iraq voting is the way to go. No cheating and someone without a blue thumb is not doing their civic duty. I lived in a country that when voting your Cedula Card (Social Security Card) got punched and should you have a need for a government service you had better show the punched card or you go to the back of the line a hundred times. 95% plus voting in that country.
There is violence, murder and mayhem going on in the streets of this country and I only hear one candidate yelling at the top of his lungs for it to stop. What in God’s name is wrong with the other guy as if he does not start yelling for it to stop then we know he is fostering it and on the wrong side.



You think that is not his hand?

Eric Newhill

The hand does look kind of photoshopped



My first post was that I am a permanent absentee voter and that county clerks supposedly verify signature prior to counting the ballot. You then argue that county clerks are not handwriting experts. I reply that one doesn’t need to be a handwriting expert to verify a ballot, that Trump himself is an absentee ballot voter and there is as much possibility of fraud at a polling station that requires no identification.

In response you claim your opinion is more informed because you know more about text reading software. Lol!


I commented earlier about a conversation with a contractor about very strange quasi-medical goings-on involving taking the blood of young, excited children and injecting elders whose goal is to live forever. The contractor showed me a website with photos of people participating in this ghoulery.
He went so far as to say that some who frequented this conspiracy theory site claimed that the Biden we see is actually a clone; you can tell by a difference in the ear lobes of genuine vs clone.
Weird stuff.
He told me stuff that's even further far out: that the emergency production of ventilators that were NOT needed and NOT used for COVID were, rather, urgently needed to resuscitate dozens of children discovered in tunnels under places like Epstein's house in NY.

That would not make the news, of course, but main stream news has been reporting on recovery of many, many children and their return to their parents. So something very strange has happened/is happening.
U.S. Marshals rescue 25 missing children in Ohio Sept 1 2020

On the other hand, I find it not implausible to believe R B Ginsberg is kept alive through some esoteric techniques: one does not have the numerous health crises she's had and bounce back in a very short time. Similarly, Soros & Kissinger. Peter Thiel has openly stated he's on a quest to live forever.

Crimes like the attack on the two LAPD may be deliberate distractions from some other, larger criminality that is taking place.


I would say its definitely an IV hole in his hand, its in exactly the right place. Also the definition of the photo is not good enough to discern whether there are liver spots, as we call them in the UK, present.

I think the Democrats, with their shenanigans in 2016 by not accepting gracefully their defeat, permanently changed US politics and not in their favour. They set the scene where if they win this time the losing Republicans will not accept the result either.

But this time, whilst the Republicans in Congress may accept it (as part of the UniParty) the rank and file will not. Although the Democrats seem to be well 'tooled up' with BLM, Antifa etc already rolling ready for if they lose, the Republicans are not. They have no national leadership or plans that I can see.

Most people seem to have no idea what is coming their way for Christmas.


Col Lang, you asked for my opinion as a nurse, most of my 37 years yers of nursing was as a psychiatric nurse, so here it is. Joe Biden is 77 years old, of course he has slowed down. I'm 73 and I definitely have. However I see no overt signs of dementia, he has always seemed a bit of a foot in the mouth type person. He is fairly articulate when speaking much more so than Trump.
You stated that Trump's lies are a lie of the left, I just do not understand that. He opens his mouth and lies come out. Granted I think he believes his lies a type of if I say it it is true delusion.
Biden seems like a caring person and that is definitely a quality that Trump lacks. We need a little more kindness and consideration in our lives we have truly become a divided country.

Eric Newhill

What I am saying is that county clerks might do a fair job of handling a small volume of absentee or mail in ballots; or maybe not, but the volume in most states is not sufficient to make a difference most of the time. However, now, with a much larger volume of mailed in ballots, the clerk a) probably cannot handle the volume of verifications b) the volume is going to be sufficient to make a difference in election results c) regardless of a and b, the loser is going to have an excuse to call the results into question and there will be voters that perceive themselves as disenfranchised by a broken process d) we don't need c when the country is already at each others' throats.

Clinton is already that Biden should not concede regardless of election night results. You give that statement no weight?

I also agree with Col Lang about the opportunity for cheating via ballot harvesting and other techniques. Those problems have happened before in local elections. That is a matter of fact. There have been convictions. Yes, some perpetrators were caught and convicted, but I ask again, what would happen if fraud was detected and prosecuted some time after POTUS is sworn in and the fraud caused that POTUS to be seen as actually not winning the election? If you think that there won't be an enhanced effort to cheat in this election, I don't know what to say other than it must be nice to enjoy such an innocent view of the world and its inhabitants.

The argument that mostly there hasn't been cheating in the past is spurious. The riots, excuse me, protests, are mostly peaceful, right? We don't know the extent of cheating in the past. If democrats have won and control the local govt, then they are not going to investigate. Of course, the foxes swear that no chickens have ever been stolen from the coup.

The only way to remove some of the above issues is to have some kind of signature verification. As someone noted, that removes voter confidentiality. I say it can't be done anyhow. Ballot harvesting and postal service issues remain.

Chuck Light

Artemisia: Apparently whatever they are giving to RGB didn't stop her from officiating a close friend's wedding on August 31, 2020. Of course, the photo could be photo shopped, I guess. Also, she was not wearing a mask. Maybe so people could really think it was her and not a double.




Trump exaggerates. He is a New York City hustler. You have no idea what that means because you don't know any. As I said, you people "fact check" his exaggerations and speculations. That is inherently unkind and unfair but you don't care because you want Aldous Huxley's "Brave New World" at all costs. Look it up. As for Biden, I DO know him. His "Mr. Rogers" act is just that, an act. He is a cheap Irish machine politician from a state the size of a middle sized city who never worked a day in a non-government job. In my interactions with him he was always as mean as a snake, especially to anyone from the ME who was not an Israeli. You have been completely suckered.



"Jungle drums, jungle drums. It's Kwanza time in the cities..."
Hey, I celebrate all of them, all. Yes. I have had enough IVs in the back of my hand to know one when I see one.

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