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25 August 2020

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Jim

What strikes me in summer of 2020 is absence of any police, or none in view at all when folks have been blasting bull horns waking people up in middle of night by agitators, in residential areas of USA.

Why are they not there, who are making these decisions banning police: when agitators invade residential neighborhoods for sole purpose of harassing and, I think, trying to goad residents into attacking them?

This is a basic police function: To Keep The Peace.

Following Rodney King verdict, what happened in South Central LA is instructive.

Then police chief on purpose ordered officers out of the area. Asian businesses destroyed.

Area, destroyed: $4 billion in damages.

Asian business owners did use guns on the rioting mobs.

It was either that or be killed.

Chuck

Well written. I don't know what the solution is. I have my doubts that a real leader will emerge who can get the BLM/Antifa types to back down. I think that getting people back to work is important because idle hands are the devils plaything. A lot of this is just bored people acting out.

Deap

Walrus, I recommend you view the police cam video in this RedState link - two minutes of trying to subdue a suspect after the taser failed, when two police tried to take him to the ground, but the suspect did break away and run to his car, grab his gun, then shoot the two policeman and actually finally drive off all of this taking place within two minutes along a very busy Highway 33.

Day in the life of some police officers in this country: https://www.redstate.com/streiff/2020/08/25/new-video-makes-the-rush-to-judgment-over-the/

Monday morning quarterbacking, after seeing what can happen in just two minutes, should give one pause before rushing to judgement.

Eric Newhill

Walrus,
IMO, there is truth to what you say about the size and strength of America law enforcement as well as the reasons for the trend toward smaller and less physically capable.

That said, I don't see it as the cause of the Blake incident. First, Blake, like most of these guys who become "victims" of alleged police misconduct, is a convicted violent felon who has in the past used guns to assault and threaten people. He also attempted to pull a gun, while in a vehicle, on cops in a previous incident. Second, he had warrants out for his arrest. So a violent felon with motivation to not be arrested. Don't listen to the BLM activist "witnesses", lawyer Crump or the liberal media. Blake wasn't just there to break up a fight between two women. And he couldn't just leave due to the warrants. Police knew exactly who he is as what he is all about.

Police tased Blake when he wouldn't comply and he just shook it off (drug induced numbness?).

Police do not want to get down on the ground wrestling with someone like Blake because someone like Blake could - and would - get ahold of a police pistol or other weapon during the tussle. Wrestling with a dangerous perp is, well, dangerous. Why should police put themselves at that kind of risk? For the likes of a Blake?

Blake apparently had a knife (that he grabbed from the car?). There is a second video and police can be heard telling Blake to drop the knife. A witness also says that police were shouting at Blake to drop the knife. The fist video shown by Crump, BLM and lefty media - like the Floyd video - was edited and incomplete. These people are quick to start the info operation. Crump was on this case before the blood was even dry. Too many people are way too ignorant and way too gullible when it comes to these incidents.

Fred

Walrus,

"I am reminded of the anti - Chinese riots in the Australian goldfields from 1857 - 1861."

Help out a poor American in understanding Australia, isn't 1861 a century and a half ago? Nothing else in your cultural memory came to mind?

"I am concerned that at some stage a potential victim is going to decide, rightly or wrongly, that enough is enough." No Sh## sir. Aren't you one of the people who wants an unarmed citizenry? That's pretty much guaranteeing those potential victims become compliant victims, or dead ones.

"What can be done to defuse the situation?"
I suggest a post from someone 9,000 miles away about Cannon Hinnant, David Dorn and a bunch of other victims of the left to provide us with some perspective.

walrus

Fred, I have never, ever, suggested that your constitutional rights to bear arms should be curtailed. They are an essential part of your society. What I have said is that you are also stuck with the unavoidable consequences of the second amendment in terms of accidents, shootings, etc. However that is your business not mine.

My observations are that police recruitment policies may have a role to play in these matters and secondly, I would not be surprised if there was a white backlash against BLM/Antifa and the severity of it might surprise some people. The Australian gold field riots in The 1850s were known for the savagery of the attacks on the Chinese from usually quiet and law abiding people.

As far as firearms go, I have a few, they are for game and vermin over here, they are generally regarded as unnecessary for self defence. There is no tradition about being armed, etc.

walrus

Deap, considering the Redstate video, it appears that the police had every right to prevent Blake from trying to get ‘something” from the car.

Deap

Did you watch the Highway 33 police-suspect shootout video posted here, walrus. We have a lot of freedoms in this country, which include the freedom to be very, very stupid.

We assume there will be personal responsibility and shared mutual conduct standards. This is our country's biggest weakness because both are not universal, and we don't preemptively demands it upfront with a gun; but occasionally need to reinforce it with a gun

AK

Walrus,

To put a coda on Eric Newhill's last point, the first thing to be done is for opportunistic, a$$hole politicians of a certain political party to stop jumping to immediate and incendiary conclusions in their public pronouncements. This is unquestionably a tacit invitation to convene in the streets and tear things up/burn things down. Governor Evers' statement was a blatant political ploy - "While we do not have all the details yet, what we know for certain is he is not the first Black man or person to have been shot or injured or mercilessly killed at the hands of individuals in law enforcement in our state or in our country." This is irresponsibility of the highest order from a public official. And he wasn't the only one. They ALL did it. Not a single Democrat even called for calm let alone denounced the outright destruction. They can't bring themselves to do it, so it will keep happening. By their own standards these days, "silence is violence" so it's fair to say they condone and invite this lawlessness.

As to the police, I can't immediately comment on this particular incident, but I will agree with the notion that their efficacy has very likely been hampered by lack of physical aptitude standards in recruitment and hiring. I've known a few black guys from the ghetto who always said they'd rather run up against a linebacker cop than a 5'2" female because the linebacker is less likely to rely on deadly force. He's more confident in his ability to control a situation without resorting to his gun. I've also known capable male cops who've admitted the liability of having physically slight female partner. They simply can't count on her to perform in the same way under duress that a 6'2", 190lb man could.

Reminds me of a video I recently saw of a very small, female Army captain attempting to complete a combat medic course.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2F_3MKYiF_c

This was a 35lb. dry-weight road ruck for 12 miles. To begin, 35 lbs is simply not much weight for a fit and capable man. It's a very basic load. While casual observers cheered her determination, professionals correctly point out that she is now nothing but a dead weight liability, completely incapable of performing ANY duty, let alone rendering medical aid in a combat situation. You'll notice the male soldier strolling past her as though on his way to breakfast. This is case-in-point evidence that degraded efficacy is the natural result when organizations that rely on physical prowess in the course of their duties and that also deal with physical conflict as an inherent part of their operation begin to institute things like "diversity" and "inclusivity." I don't know why the police forces would be considered any different in this regard.

blue peacock

Walrus,

IMO, we ain't seen nothing yet. If Trump gets re-elected, with Hillary already advising Biden to not concede, we will have more mayhem.

Of course Trump has also created doubt about the sanctity of the election. So we must prepare not only for the "hanging chad" like legal disputes but of course for agitators spurred on by both political leadership and the media that craves controversy and ratings.

Police killings as well as other killings should be brought into focus. However, there can be no rational discussion since political polarization is paramount. In the current social media environment everything can be distorted and played up as video content proliferate. The media is intent on accentuating the polarization.

I continue to be intrigued by why this intense hatred directed towards Trump that even law enforcement & the intelligence agencies attempted a coup, let alone the corporate media at his throat all the time. He's not done anything tangible to impinge on the benefits of the oligarchy.

BABAK MAKKINEJAD

Walrus:

I think the job of any US Ambassador to Africa or Central America became that much more difficult after this incident.

akaPatience

What can be done to diffuse the current situation? How about some honesty for a change - honest, factual, statistical discussion about these types of events and crime in general? Police shootings of blacks get a lot of attention but are actually relatively rare amidst a comprehensive account of crime and law enforcement. I wonder if many young people who protest on behalf of BLM know that blacks are disproportionately responsible for homicides, and that their victims are mostly other blacks? If they're unaware it wouldn't surprise me since perspective and an honest discussion about these matters are apparently forbidden.

I've seen the video that Deap posted before, and others too, showing how quickly a person can grab a gun in his car and use it on cops.

People like the perp in the video, like Blake, like the man shot at Wendy's in Atlanta a couple of months ago, who are impervious to tasers, cause especially dangerous scenarios, as they leave LE with little to no alternative than to rely on lethal force when necessary.

turcopolier

akaPatience

"I wonder if many young people who protest on behalf of BLM know that blacks are disproportionately responsible for homicides, and that their victims are mostly other blacks." Do you think they care? What they are looking for in Portlandia episodes are opportunities for agitprop mob action along the road to their attempts to take power from Biden. it will be interesting to see what shows up in Kenosha.

TV

Blue Peacock:
Apparently Trump's references to "draining the swamp" threw the swamp denizens into a frenzy knowing full well that their exalted positions are based on lies and thievery.
The DOJ and FBI being protectors of the swamp reacted accordingly.

Fred

Walrus,

A white backlash? The left have been campaigning on that theme since the '60s. Like your reference to the gold field riots in Australia a century and a half ago Americans have to go back generations to find a racially based white-on-black pogrom. The agit-prop we are seeing is opportunistic but well orchastrated to take advantage anything that can be misconstured in incidents just like this.

"police recruitment policies"
As you've conveniently forgotten after all the other discussions of policing here there are fifty states with different state policies for screening, mininum recruit training, and ongoing training. There are even more minicipalities. Thanks to the violent left and media coverage police are all considered collectively guilty, the political leadership in the cities the left control are collectively guiltless, however, as they have proclaimed thier ritual support of BLM and Social Justice in order to cleanse themselves from responsibility for oversight of the police they are now disavowing. (Other than the ones sent to guard the Mayor Chicago, Minneapolis, Seattle, and of course, NYC.)

Congrats to the left though, the DNC and their press outlets finally have something to talk about for 70 days, rather than addressing Biden's dementia, Kamala's filling the jails with Black Americans, or the economy destroying lockdowns ordered by Democratic governor's of multiple states.

Deap

Seeing how many quivering and sniveling white people the threats of black violence has already created, shouldn't blacks simply declare victory and pack up the tent?

Move to Democrat states where their every demand is honored and carried out. Oh wait, they are already in Democrat states and cities. Still something missing in the Democrat agenda that keeps this group so unhappy and unfulfilled.

Wish they did not feel this way. I truly do. Join the struggle and stop fanticizing anyone else has it easier. That is why I can't hear them. They don't own human misery. But they sure weaponize it. (Yes, use of the word "they" is already offensive- but I have gotten very lazy and brain dead listening to these escalating and irresponsible, lazy demands.)

We learned from Watts back in the 1960's, the very worst thing one can do is burn your own neighborhood down. Just don't do it.

Barbara Ann

AK

That video is shocking. 35lbs over 12 miles, I'd expect a fit person of any build to be able to hump that with relative ease. But it's the trying that matters of course - only it isn't when it counts.

Deap

Shooting victim's mother made the following very tender remarks:

....." Clearly, you can see right now that I have beautiful brown skin. But take a look at your hand, and whatever shade it is, it is beautiful as well. How dare we hate what we are. We are humans. God did not make one type of tree or flower or fish or horse or grass or rock. How dare you ask him to make one type of human that looks just like you......" (RedState)

Mark K Logan

Walrus,

I'm convinced it's a training issue. Google up the Grossman training stuff. It's very popular and in many ways valid, but wrong messages can be taken from it: Anything you do to defend yourself is justified, and you are entitled to that anything if you perceive a threat. Furthermore, you are about to be attacked at any moment! Split second reactions are needed! This is a military force-protection attitude. Works in a police state but not in a free one. Free people ill-tolerate fear-biting cops.

You will see Grossman training in big city academies, but in the ones that have at some point have suffered the consequences, most notably Oakland in the 60s, they damn are careful with it.

JerseyJeffersonian

During my youthful backpacking days I used to carry 35 lbs. regularly. I recall one such trip; my dad & I began our hike in southern Maine, traversing the Carter-Mahousic range, crossing over into NH and descending down to Pinkham notch, then ascending to one end of the Presidentials which we then hiked across, descending down Boote Spur. We then climbed up again onto the next range, ultimately debouching at Crawford Notch. I weighed about 130 lbs. back then, and handled that weight through ascents and descents with good grace with my trusty Kelty external frame pack with a good hip belt, in stride, so to speak.

optimax

A female police dog handler can't control her dog even though she, the cop, is rather large.

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/local/2020/08/24/video-of-detroit-police-officer-fatally-shooting-dog-through-fence-goes-viral/

The Kanosha cops should have with the proper training been able to control the perp with their hands.
choke hold would have worked too but that's illegal. Portland has taken away many of the effective tools used to control rioter. The DA releases a majority of the rioters without bail and drops the charges. The protesters are really peaceful rioters providing cover for the people throwing rocks, bricks, urine filled condoms, anything they can at the cops. There are law firms people are told to call when getting arrested to defend them and get them out of jail quickly. The peaceful rioters have something on the order of 40 lawsuits against the PPD and more against the Federal police Trump sent us for manhandling their innocent little selves. Cultural Marxism is working well in Portland.A city less than 10% black is destroying its eurocentric traditions, values and institutions for afrocentric ones. Thank you, white guilt.

turcopolier

optimax

Where I live it seems as though every police shooting involves a woman cop.

Jack

The cost of turning a blind eye to lawlessness.

https://twitter.com/julio_rosas11/status/1298318227051864064?s=21

AK

Jersey Jeffersonian, Barbara Ann,

To make myself clear (as I'm not sure that I was in my previous comment), I'm not asserting that you need to be of a certain physical stature to handle 35lbs and 12 miles. Quite the opposite actually. My point was it should be manageable for most physically fit people. I have certainly known women who could handle that kind of load and distance, no problem. I've known many more men who could, though. The larger point I was trying to make is that by setting standards like this and allowing this type of person to "pass" that standard in this fashion does damage to the efficacy of the unit she seeks to join. The standards need to be higher. If that means that fewer 5'2", 100-lb women pass the course and are selected to the unit, so be it. To my knowledge, a typical full kit for combat infantry is often twice that weight. I personally know no one of any stature or sex who can carry 70% of their own body weight for 4 miles, let alone 12, and furthermore to be capable of fighting at the end of it.

I think the standards need to be higher for police as well. Some women can and will pass, which is fine, but the higher standards need to be there to prevent those (male or female) who could get themselves or others hurt by their lack of physical aptitude from being put in a position to do so. There are a lot of tubby male cops out there, too. That said, I also think the competency standards need to be MUCH higher for police. Increased budgets for training are a must. I was listening to an interview with Jocko Willink (retired Navy SEAL) discussing police training standards, and he contends that officers should spend 20% of their time on the clock in continuing training. According to him, the average officer only spends 4 hours per year in department funded combative training. Those who get more usually do so at their own initiative, time, and expense. I know different departments have different standards and protocols, and I'll try to verify that figure, but if true, it's startling.

Jack
In a scene that played out several times Monday, a Black Lives Matter protest that began in Columbia Heights confronted White diners outside D.C. restaurants,  chanting “White silence is violence!” and demanding White diners show their solidarity.

https://twitter.com/kunklefredrick/status/1298344285079838720?s=21

This type of mob badgering of ordinary citizens dining is not conducive to more support but creates the environment for public demands to come down harshly on these wokesters.

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