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27 August 2020

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David J Schuler

Something else that's worth cranking into that timeline is that the House impeached President Trump on January 16 and the Senate acquitted him two weeks later--on February 5. That was the focus of Congressional Democrats' attention until mid-February.

Fred

Carl Rove missed one. Speaker Pelosi, on Jan 27th, stated she would bring the "No Ban Act" to the floor for a vote. It has 209 Co-sponsors - all Democrats.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/2214/cosponsors?searchResultViewType=expanded

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/1/27/21086802/house-pelosi-no-travel-ban-act-trump

Harry

Well, I'm a democratic socialist. I don't want Biden to win, because he stands for nothing other than the acquisition of power. I do believe in democracy so if others do not share my socialists beliefs I have no interest in forcing them down peoples throats. I don't think Trump is a good leader but he was elected. I don't respect those who claim to respect democracy but undermine the winner of an election. To my mind it is hypocritical.

Yes I do think there needs to be radical change, but I am happy to make that case and wait for my fellow citizens to agree. Im not sure all socialists agree with me.

Deap

Harry, What are the key elements of your radical change to "socialism". Can you give US examples of parts of our government that would qualify as "socialist type" program that are in place now?

The VA, the DMV, our public schools .... something that has a monopoly and only government operations are allowed?

Why does socialism demand membership in private third party unions? How do they continue to play a role when the "government" now runs everything.

We toss the word "socialism" around as we we all knew what it means, how it would get implemented and what would be the anticipated outcomes. Details, please. We may be only a few elections away from this "radical change" looking at its acceptance among our younger demographics.

Private property ownership; private enterprise, how do they fit in? Some public services become exclusively government services or merely government options, while private delivery still continues? What the heck is "socialism" everyone seems to be talking about.

Quite honestly, when I hear the word I think - gimme your stuff -- this is all I can hear. Change my mind.

mcohen

Basically the repubs under trump are being slowly starved of oxygen.A setup to fail no matter which way they burn.Another synagogue burnt down in Delaware.Why not churches or mosques.I wonder who is behind this.

Bill H

Deap has a point. How many who are advocating socialism want to eliminate public sector unions? The logical answer would be 100% but the actual answer is probably close to zero,

harry

1. I don't believe that capitalism rewards people in proportion to their contribution to society. So its up to society to mitigate that. The old and infirm currently have some protection in the form of social security and social health care. But the social safety net should be wider, particularly with respect to the mentally ill.

2. Anti trust. Large companies dominate increasingly dominate our economy. They extract monopoly profits, and skew the competitive landscape in their favor by lobbying central government. If you want to run a capitalist or mixed economy you must keep the economy competitive and the playing field level.

3. Taxation should be progressive. If Mitt Romney pays 14% tax while i pay 38% there is something wrong with the system. The wealthy are able to access tax breaks the poor cannot. More generally, the US economy is designed make the poor the victims of the rich. Capital gains should not be taxed at a different privileged rate.

4. There is too much corruption at every level of government in the US.

5. Education should not be locally funded. Educational opportunities should not be as dependent on the income of your parents

6. No Americans should die because they have impaired access to healthcare. In this respect the Army is a socialist institution. Access to healthcare should be universal.

Fred

Harry,

"Yes I do think there needs to be radical change"
I agree. As a man who spent a lifetime being a Democrat and having run for office on the Democratic ticket in Michigan I found, much to my surprise, that the professional politicians in the state and nationwide had become completely co-opted by a lust for power and, as is readily becoming apparent to all, Marxist ideology. They all need to be removed from office at the ballot box this November. Then we can work to radically change the entrenched educational bureaucracy that has created an enslaved urban minority that can not earn enough at any occupation to raise their own families while enriching a elilte union leadership and thier political party patrons.

America needs a well educated citizenry who are capable of being self-sufficient and able to earn a living in this capitalist society, which has created the greatest economic opportunity known to mankind. As we see from decades long "progress" in the inner cities and nationally with the issuance of more than a million H1B visas the educational institutions have failed in that obligation. As we see from millions of legal and non-legal immigrants into the US the Marxists of the left have promoted the fraudulent idea of systemic race-based racism as cover for thier ongong efforts to destroy a society they can not improve upon, nor take control of with honest debate. They are joined in this destruction of self-sufficiency and equal opportunity by an elite class of internationalists and corporate leaders in search of ever lower labor costs and increasing concentration of wealth. Just look at what their prefered candidate of 2016 accomplished for Haiti with the Clinton Foundation and a decade's worth of help from the UN.

turcopolier

mcohen

was it in Wilmington?

Fred

mcohen,

Unlike these churches:
May: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12119884/churches-burned-black-lives-matter-protests/
Commendations by Shaun King saying that was fine by him.
July: https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/07/three-churches-burned-just-24-hours-wouldnt-know-watch-national-news/ with additional bad news coverage: https://www.foxnews.com/us/church-fire-florida-california-statue-burned-police-investigation
August: https://www.bostonherald.com/2020/08/03/two-fires-lit-at-massachusetts-church-called-appalling-act-of-arson/

I wonder why none of this shows up in your awareness. That was all of 2 minutes of looking on the internet.


AK

Harry,

On point #4, I'll agree. I suggest reading Basic Economics by Thomas Sowell. That'll help with the rest.

Leith

Harry - Are you a DSA member?

I was for Bernie both times he ran. But in 2020 he and most of his supporters knew that he was NOT running for President, but only to move the DNC away from the neo-liberal ideas of Bill Clinton's DLC. He succeeded! Biden has agreed with Sanders to form task forces that include Bernie appointees on health care, the economy, and education.

But the biggest change is that Biden is now preparing to upend decades of dogma on globalization. That was one of the same issues that Trump borrowed from Bernie but so far has not acted on. If Biden does get elected let's hope that the neo-libs do not get to him like the neo-cons got to Trump.

Laura Wilson

Las night was a good visual...when I saw the 1500 chairs I was reminded of the 1500 Americans who died that day from C-19. I think I am part of the well-educated citizenry---I can count.

Deap

Thanks for trying Harry to explain "socialism". Sorry, but no sale. Not one compelling argument or explanation. The needle did not move past "gimme your stuff" definition for me.

I far prefer land of opportunity; not the land of socialism. Not sure where our roads diverged so substantially. Founders knew government should be limited, and given enough power, power corrupts.

Today we have given far too much power to "the government" which in fact are unelected mass government employment agencies with far too much power and control over all our lives, with no checks and balances; no responsiveness to the electoral process. "Socialism" does not change that; only makes it far, far worse.

I sense you overlook how much activity in the US is voluntary - don't like a corporation - don't buy their products; don't like your employee-employer relationship -start your own country. Your brand of "socialism" reeks with victimization. And that is why I can't buy it- it is a mental prison; not a viable alternative.

Plus I still don't understand why every "socialism" scheme the radical Left presents today, and every single Democrat candidate, demands mandatory membership in due-paying private third party employee organization known as an employee union - as a universal government mandate forced on every single employee. Talk about wealth confiscation - for what purpose?

Might want to dig a little deeper into that "socialist" corruption.

Deap

Fred, I too was a local elected official. Non-partisan because it was an educational institution, and I was long a Democrat because they always supported "education" right?

Seeing how this public agency operated from the inside for 20 years is when the scales fell off my own eyes. The teachers unions - aka the Democrat Party - is the most thoroughly corrupt organization we have in our state.

I viscerally recoil now seeing how every "radical" Democrat platform now demands forced union membership as a primary tenant of its implementation. Knowing full well, they will probably not get most if any of their major elements passed, but sitting there by stealth, like a Trojan Horse, is the mandatory union membership clause that will ride in hidden by the furor of their most publicized demands.

Being on the inside of a public institution sharpens one awareness of the duplicitous campaigns the unions wage against the voter. You quickly learn their buzz words, their disguised "support" organizations, their tactics and their appeal to the emotional jugular in unsuspecting voters who still believe Democrats support education.

In California, I got to watch Kamala Harris up close and see her as one of the most corrupt politicians in the state - the handmaiden for the state employee unions, first last and always abusing powers as AG to carry out their demands.

As voters, we have to duty to reject these insider politicians.

Harry

Fred.

I am disgusted by the fraud which is American identity politics. It reminds me very clearly of British Imperial divide and rule. The Democratic Party seems to be 100% committed to identity politics. The people promoting identity politics on the left are not Marxists. Marxism requires far more effort and reading. They are opportunists, who seek to profit from their brothers pain. This kind of opportunist has been a consistent feature of American politics for many years. Al Sharpton is an excellent example of the type.

I am a socialist, but I can see merit in capitalism where it is run honestly and fairly with a view to benefiting all people. What exists in America today is not capitalism.

Jack

Harry,

I’m old school, born in the 30s depression. IMO, labels like socialism, Marxist, capitalism, radical left, racist, are bereft of meaning since they no longer have a specific commonly understood definition. It is whatever anyone wants it to be. I consider myself a “classical liberal” in the Lockean sense and a “constitutional originalist” as my ideal are the philosophies that underpinned the thinking of Jefferson and Madison. But what does “liberal” mean today to any group. This malleability of labels is not conducive to debate on core issues as labels have just become epithets.

For example, you bring a hugely important point which is market concentration and monopolies. You label a competitive marketplace socialism. I completely agree with you on the need for competition but I would label it the core of capitalism. Without a competitive market economy which must be enforced by a third party, like a referee in a sports game, it would always tend towards concentration. What we have witnessed over the past half century is a massive concentration in market power across practically every market sector. This rise in market concentration have been supported by the “socialist left” and the “capitalist right” and is the very antithesis of a free, open, entrepreneurial and competitive economy. This rise in market concentration has been due to the symbiotic relationship between big government and big business. The complete corruption of politics with big money concentrating more power and using that power to control all levers of power in a reinforcing cycle. The financialization of the economy and the concomitant destruction of large segments of the real economy with our industrial base offshored are all a direct result of this concentration in market power. It is not that earlier generations did not recognize this natural tendency to concentration and oligarchy. They did and laws exist on the books. But a combination of the use of sophistry among segments of the corrupted judiciary and the revolving door where the fox is in the henhouse have gutted the enforcement of anti-trust. This has resulted in the slow evisceration of the working and middle class and the most unprecedented wealth inequality in American history.

Labels have purposefully obfuscated the real issues. Both the left and right, the Democrats and Republicans and all the media propaganda are designed to divide and distract from the real looting. The greatest transfer of wealth from the American working and middle class to the Party of Davos.

AK

Laura Wilson,

"Last night was a good visual...when I saw the 1500 chairs I was reminded of the 1500 Americans who died that day from C-19. I think I am part of the well-educated citizenry---I can count."

This is such a tired talking point. How many COVID victims are represented in your mind by the hundreds or thousands of anarchists and rioters in the streets? I can see and count too. So can pretty much every other American who is not blinded by leftist ideology. Not much distance between people in those crowds. Americans see this hypocrisy plain as day. That line just ain't gonna stick anymore, but keep going for it. It's all you've got at this point.

srw

Wise words spoken Oct 10th, 1952 by Pres. Truman for all those who quiver in their shoes whenever the Trumpster or FOX claims that Biden will turn the US into a socialist hell hole:
Socialism is a scare word they have hurled at every advance the people have made in the last 20 years.
Socialism is what they called public power.
Socialism is what they called social security.
Socialism is what they called farm price supports.
Socialism is what they called bank deposit insurance.
Socialism is what they called the growth of free and independent labor organizations.
Socialism is their name for almost anything that helps all the people.

turcopolier

SRW

Ah, another fellow traveler heard from!

J

74 People Facing Federal Charges for Crimes Committed During Portland Demonstrations

Charges include assaulting federal officers, arson, failing to obey lawful orders, and damaging federal property

https://www.justice.gov/usao-or/pr/74-people-facing-federal-charges-crimes-committed-during-portland-demonstrations


And in Wisconsin:

FBI Milwaukee Statement on Individuals Inciting Violence During First Amendment-Protected Peaceful Demonstrations

https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-offices/milwaukee/news/press-releases/fbi-milwaukee-statement-on-individuals-inciting-violence-during-first-amendment-protected-peaceful-demonstrations

mcohen

Turco

https://www.haaretz.com/amp/jewish/.premium-fire-at-university-of-delaware-chabad-ruled-arson-1.9109240

mcohen

Fred.
Now that I look it is right across the board.Strange isn't it.Whole thing is spinning out of control

turcopolier

mcohen

Let me know who the perps turn out to be.

J

Marxist-Democrat foot-soldiers also vandalized a Synagogue in Kenosha Wisconsin. In addition Portland Fire & Rescue responded to two fires that happened in the West Side Chabad Jewish Community Center five days apart in Southwest Portland.

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