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30 August 2020

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dan of steele

it is unclear to me why you would start this line of questioning. I live in Italy and remember quite well how everyone was shouting at us for not locking down earlier. My wife had rented an Air BnB in Virginia and the landlady canceled due to her fears of Covid and people from Italy.

China shut down their whole country and got the virus under control (at least that is what we assume). Their methods were draconian by any measure.

The US on the other hand tried to ignore the virus hoping that it would go away before hurting too many people. If advice to stay at home, social distancing, shutting down clubs and restaurants had not been implemented we might very well have hit 2 million dead....who knows? who wants to find out?

Here in old Europe it seems we are on the verge of a new outbreak. Some people have gone on vacation and the number of daily new cases is on the rise. The greatest advantage to regular people here is that there is paid sick leave and social medicine so people can get treated without getting ruined financially.

Eric Newhill

Yes, Col Lang., as you know, this is what I've been saying for months.It is what the good data and analysis (not that CDC garbage) reveals. However, no one wants to believe the evil capitalist private insurance companies. They think government is far more trustworthy and competent. More of that conditioning of attitude and perception by the powers that be in the plan to implement a big global govt.

The govt could have worked with the insurance companies to understand this thing. Seems like the logical move if you have poor quality data and insurance has good data, and you really believe there is a lethal pandemic on the loose.

Laura Wilson

Do you not understand that a new disease can kill people even if they have other diseases that are being managed? If you are diabetic and get C-19 and die, the C-19 killed you! Otherwise, you would have lived longer with the managed diabetes....

Why is this even a question? 186,000 Americans are dead right now PRIMARILY because of C-19. Otherwise, most of them would still be alive---still with other underlying conditions and chronic illnesses but still alive.

I read the article---it's so flawed.

turcopolier

Laura Wilson

"186,000 Americans are dead right now PRIMARILY because of C-19." You do not know that is true. You just want it to be true for political reasons.

Eric Newhill

Laura Wilson,
When you are over 75 years old, you are going to succumb to serious underlying conditions covid or no covid. Those who's deaths are being attributed to covid are primarily in that age group. It is disingenuous to create a panic over a virus that almost exclusively contributes (at most) to the deaths of the elderly with underlying serious conditions. Many of those who have died, succumbed to the underlying condition, but incidentally had covid.

Another new report has come out that shows a significant proportion of covid positive tests are showing positive for minuscule viral loads in the system; not enough to cause illness (or serious illness). How many of those elderly that died of underlying conditions fall into that category? Many of the tests show false positives.

This whole thing has been one big scam - and I believe deliberately.

Eric Newhill

Actually, Laura, when you are over 75 years old, the risk of dying increases, period. Once you're into the 85 year old and over bucket, which many covid deaths are, you were probably going to die regardless; unless you're a vampire or some other inhuman death defying creature. Is this really news to anyone?

We must look at years of expected life lost, not raw body counts. That approach reveals covid to not be a threat to society.

BillWade

The good news is that tens of thousands protested in London and Berlin yesterday. The bad news is that some degenerate tried to rape a 25 year old women at 11 AM on a NYC subway station platform, also on Saturday. Thankfully the spectators shamed him off of her. The 600 person NYC special undercover cops were defunded. It used to be one didn't know if a cop was riding on the subway or not, now the criminals know they aren't there.

President Trump really needs to stop this nonsense and tell everyone they can take off their masks if they want to and get back to work and school. It's time now, please!

walrus

Col. Lang with respect, the numbers are consistent and Fauci and Birx are not wrong. Many Americans have “co morbidities” not just a few expendable old people.

34 million have diabetes. 30 million have heart disease. There are about 40 million over 70 years. Sure, some folk will tick all three boxes but there is a significant portion of the population at risk and we still don’t understand the side effects and possible permanent injury potential.

However that is not the problem. The problem is logistics. Specifically what happens to the health system when twenty million get covid at the same time?

Account Deleted

Colonel:

"You do not know that is true. You just want it to be true for political reasons."

And you want it to be false for political reasons.
Why not just make it ZERO deaths? Attribute them all to heart failure.

Laura Wilson

turcopolier...well, apparently that "news" came from QANON...so you might want to be careful about wanting fake facts to be "true for political reasons." Pretty much works both ways...we ALL have to pay attention.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/30/politics/twitter-coronavirus-deaths-false-claim-qanon-trump/index.html

Laura Wilson

Oh, turcopolier, I just noticed that I made a serious typo---I meant 176,000 Americans. I'm sorry that I mis-spoke.

turcopolier

Laura Wilson

Nonsense. Which Demo group do you work for?

turcopolier

Mike46

Another Democratic operative. we must be having an effect.

turcopolier

walrus

The numbers are consistent because the strategy has been carefully worked out to have consistent documents. There will not be 20 million COVID cases requiring hospitalization because a high percentage do not get sick. In re the IO, been there done that myself. My question is, which group or constellation of groups is running the op.

rho

dan of steele,

"Here in old Europe it seems we are on the verge of a new outbreak. Some people have gone on vacation and the number of daily new cases is on the rise."

The number of daily new cases in Germany has recently doubled because the number of daily tests has also roughly doubled. The share of positive tests among all tests has remained constant at around 1% for 3 months now.

https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/Infekt/EpidBull/Archiv/2020/Ausgaben/35_20.pdf?__blob=publicationFile
(see page 11)

Must be a very strange "new outbreak". The number of Covid patients in the ICUs of German hospitals have been stagnating at a very low level (around 250 patients in the whole country) for several weeks.

https://www.divi.de/joomlatools-files/docman-files/divi-intensivregister-tagesreports/DIVI-Intensivregister_Tagesreport_2020_08_30.pdf
(look at the pink line in the bottom right diagram)

Where are all the sick people that you are so worried about?

Jack

All

What has intrigued me about the Wuhan virus is the panicked, off-the-cuff response. A pandemic is not new. We’ve had several in the recent past. SARS, H1N1, H2N2.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/basics/past-pandemics.html

CDC has an annual budget of $12 billion. Then there are public health budgets at NIH and other federal, state and counties.

How come there was no agreed upon pandemic response plan? If there was, why wasn’t it executed? Do public health authorities have a plan now that can be executed?

It would appear to me this was a failure across all segments of society. The public because they so easily succumbed to fear. The media for fanning the flames of hysteria. Private healthcare for not providing realistic and alternative views. The government for not executing a coordinated response.

Money is never the issue in the USA. No one spends like us on healthcare, education, national security. Outcomes are a different matter altogether. Value for money is poor since there’s a high “corruption” factor.

We’ve had many “wars”. War on Poverty. War on Drugs. War on Terror. We’ve spent huge amounts on each. They’ve all been failures!

Deap

Laura, When you get to a certain age, everyday you wake up to most of obituaries being for people younger than yourself. It is a landmark point in one's life.

Before they were all so old. Now they are all so young. And no, they did not die "of covid". The died. Fate played out their final hand. And you ask not for whom the bells toll ............. you just praise every single blessed day that is still yours to enjoy.

182,000 did not die "of covid" in the US. CDC played games with the numbers from day one. The only mystery is why? And why did we let them do this. Because we did - Brix admitted up front on TV they tossed anyone suspected of "covid" into the covid basket.

Any screw up were not facing covid, but overkilling "covid". The leftist cabal made sure no other points of view were allowed. If a covid report did not include or imply OrangemanBad, it never reached the airwaves. Please don't have selective memory problems about any of this. Or else you have come to the wrong place to push them.

So now tell us where the new CDC data is flawed (9K deaths), and why that is justification for believing their prior data is not flawed. (182K deaths)

dan of steele

rho

I don't have a dog in this fight. I do hope that one day we will find out what is really going on with this covid-19. I merely look at worldofmeters corona virus page and watch the numbers of new cases, serious cases, and deaths. Those numbers were horrible for Italy for a long time and after months of being locked down hard, the numbers got better.

15 August is a very famous Italian holiday with everyone going to the beach, having picnics, and so on. Oddly enough a week to 10 days later the numbers of new cases went up...quite a bit. Happily the deaths have not gone back to the 1000 a day from the early days but I am holding my breath. In our little village we have 4 active cases and 21 in quarantine. They were infected by people who had gone on vacation somewhere else.

as for Germany, my son lives near Hamburg and he is mostly teleworking and overall they are quite good at implementing good pandemic control measures. Testing was free but I believe they are starting to charge for it again. My brother in law went to Cyprus on his vacation this year and upon return he and his family were all tested.

believe me, I don't want this crap to go on any more than you do. It does not affect me all that much as I am finally retired and have a single family home with a yard. being somewhat of a recluse anyway didn't make it worse.

Deap

"New outbreaks" that lead to herd immunity are a good thing; when the death rate remains static or declines. Which is what is happening right now.

As long as every passing day adds more very elderly with 3.5 co-morbidities to the body count, one can assume this flu is taking its normal course through this population demographics.

As it does every single year, since the flu was always previously known as "the old man's friend". Sad, of course. Any death is sad. Very sad.

For reflection on eternal life however, take a look at the Czech opera "The Makropolus Case". The diva lives for 300 years, and when it comes time to take the magic potion again that keeps her eternally alive, she muses about the trials, tribulations and practical burdens of her eternal life.......... and she finally decides to .......?????

Deap

Always hate it when media reports a percentage increase - "twice as many cases" -- but never mentions the numbers. 2 case is twice as many as one case. Zut alors! We need new cases to finally reach herd immunity.

Cases are okay. In fact, it is relief we are finally existing outside of this artificial bubble, and at a time we now know a lot more about treatment and to stop killing people with forced ventilator abuse.

Original game plan - flatten the curve - end up with the same numbers of cases, but over a longer period time to ensure health care delivery would not be overwhelmed should they all happen at once. That was the bargain - flatten the curve, but not change the numbers infected.

When did "someone" demand we flat-line the numbers of infections, until they reach absolute zero? Who, what, where, when, how or why did that change?

Will anti-Trump riots after Trump's 2020 re-election push "covid" off the front pages?

Fred

Laura,

How many of the 500,000 attendees at Bike Week died of this, it's been three weeks already? How about all those 'mostly peaceful' protests? (Not counting than the two who died of the AR15 virus in Kenosha)

cirsium

dan of Steele - a contributory factor in the death toll in Italy might be the mandatory influenza vaccine. In the autumn/winter 2019, a super influenza vaccine (4 strains in one dose) was administered to old people and health care workers in Italy. Research suggests that influenza vaccine derived virus interference is significantly associated with coronavirus.

See https://www.bmj.com/content/368/bmj.m810/rr-0
and https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31607599/

Mark

For some reason, the authorities want COVID-19 to be recognized as The New Black Death. Rising numbers of 'cases' substitute for deaths in order to keep the fear factor high (as far as I can make out) when higher case numbers are an unsurprising consequence of ramped-up testing. There are allegedly high numbers of false positives, and many if not most of the cases uncovered by testing are in people who are asymptomatic or not very sick, certainly not in danger of dying or even having to be hospitalized.

The WHO admitted publicly that the chief reason it declared a pandemic was that too many countries were - in its opinion - not taking the threat seriously enough. Therefore, even the declaration of a pandemic was for scare value. When COVID-19 was at its peak for infections and deaths, the WHO (Dr. Fauci himself, actually) claimed that medical-grade masks were not necessary for the public, because the WHO deemed it necessary to reserve the supply of masks for medical use. I don't think anyone would disagree that non-medical cloth masks have much less filtration capability. But then Fauci reversed himself, and now a plethora of 'experts' claim it is proven that non-medical cloth masks work to reduce the spread of COVID-19, and there is growing and relentless pressure from the busybody sector to make them mandatory wear in all public settings. Now, when the death rate is steadily dropping. No clinical trials have ever achieved results which demonstrate that cloth masks do anything to stop the spread of an airborne virus - not masks and only masks. Trials in which the subjects regularly washed their hands, avoided touching their faces after touching other surfaces AND wore a mask demonstrated a somewhat reduced infection rate. Tests in which only masks were used showed either a statistically insignificant difference or no difference at all, but were not proper clinical trials as the sample size was comparatively small and the masked group contained a significant number who admitted they did not wear it all the time. But forcing everyone to wear a mask has become a test of will for public authorities against a public in which many do not want to wear them and are afraid compulsory wear will become the norm. Once again, there is NO PROOF that they work, as the theory has never been properly tested, I don't care what 'expert' is telling you the results are in, and masks work.

For those 'COVID warriors' who label all dissenters 'maskholes' and 'Covidiots', cite me a proper clinical trial that establishes masks on their own significantly reduced the infection rate of an airborne virus. That means show me how uninfected people wore a mask and did not take other precautions, in the presence of an infected person (without touching them or handling objects infected people handled) and remained uninfected. While you're at it, find me where the '6-foot rule' came from. Nobody seems to know how that number was arrived upon, the WHO says it did not come from them, and how does it account for different environments such as the presence or absence of wind? People have to stand six feet apart outside while waiting to be allowed in to the grocery store. How does that protect you from an airborne virus that theoretically can only travel six feet in still air?

I am always willing to have my mind changed by actual science. But so far I am not seeing it. Just a lot of politics.

Account Deleted

Deap:

"So now tell us where the new CDC data is flawed (9K deaths), and why that is justification for believing their prior data is not flawed. (182K deaths)"

The burden of proof is on those making the claim. Point out the flaws in the data then we can talk about. All I've seen so far is speculation.

Account Deleted

Deap: "New outbreaks"

New outbreaks can get quickly out of control with the end result being shutdowns. That's why expanded testing and quick detection are important. Apparently it's something the President has a problem wrapping his head around.

By the way whenever I look at my state's daily statistics, I always check the number of tests performed, they can vary greatly from day to day. I don't know where this idea of a casedemic comes from. I haven't seen it here in the midwest. But I also don't waste my time with Facebook, twitter and that other crap.

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