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23 June 2020

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Fred

VV,

"The Unrest, fireworks in the inner city, the tearing down of past history are a direct result. These are revolutionary times. "

No, they are the result of a cumulative anti-American agitprop that precedes those three in office by decades. The times are only revolutionary because the response to losing an election has caused the left to agitate for it rather than be exposed as frauds by a sucessful economic policy that lifts people out of the bottom while constraining China and the internationalists.
"Women are in the lead of the protests."
They are being used as tools while kneeling and shouting and waiving their arms about, then they go home and tweet and post about how virtuous they are while waiting for the dopamine hit as the 'ding, ding, ding' of etherial 'likes' are recorded on social media. They've been programed to recieve and depend upon the disconnected "social distancing" social media response; just like Pavlov's dogs salivating at the ringing of a bell.

scott s.

Alexandria:

You might have a look at "By One Vote. The Disputed Presidential Election of 1876" by Michael F. Holt. He goes through the post-election period pretty much day-by-day and makes a good case that there was no Republican bargain to remove federal troops in exchange for electoral votes. I think Holt is one of the foremost historians of mid-nineteenth c. American politics. In particular, "The Rise and Fall of the American Whig Party: Jacksonian Politics and the Onset of the Civil War" is kind of like drinking from a fire hose.

Jim S

Sir,

The John Birch Society argues that the US Civil War was brought on by Socialist/Jacobin machinations, and that key Republicans--including Lincoln himself--were secret or not-so-secret Jacobins, also arguing that many of the Pennsylvania (and Ohio and Wisconsin) Deutsch who fought for the Union were socialists who had fled the failed revolutions of '48/'49. At this point I'm not likely to become a John Bircher, but it's an interesting lens to view current events through, and they've turned over a big rock which has been overlooked (at least in recent times); it's also instructive to observe which rocks the JBS avoids touching.

Incidentally, it's worth repeating that our modern conception of racism stems from the 19th Century as well: Darwinism, which birthed eugenics.

Even more tangentially I've finally chewed through the 2nd volume of Powell's Chickamauga history (I was incorrect earlier: it is only the hardcover editions that are pricey) and I recommend it again; I think his narrative is remarkable. My esteem for Thomas is slightly reduced, and my esteem for Longstreet is increased. I'm impressed how Union reliance on the charge so often triggered disaster and how Confederate concern for plugging gaps led to many missed opportunities. Powell spends considerable space detailing the actions and mindsets of divisional and brigade leaders such as John Turchin of Reynolds' Division, stout of waist and stout of heart, who insisted on bringing his wife along on campaign.

AndreL

Col., Grant may indeed have had no animosity towards Confederate officers. He knew several personally from West Point and Mexican War days. But I am not sure that the leading Confederates were relying on even odds at being defended in the courts of the victor on the constitutional issue of secession. That had just been freshly ‘litigated’ for all practical purposes by a bloody war. As far the spirit of reconciliation, there is a practical side to that as well. The problem of how to manage the existence of the South’s freed slaves was of concern to the victors also. A more cynical view might be that the ex-Confederate leaders Might one day be useful in that regard. When the North tired of managing and enforcing Reconstruction and Abolition fervor faded, this investment paid off during the establishment of Jim Crow. For example, in my section of my former home state of Louisiana, PGT Beauregard was called upon by the sugar planter class to quash strikes by black cane workers. Gatling guns and cannon appeared around the community like so many National Guard helicopters. Needless to say, there was much blood. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/thibodaux-massacre-left-60-african-americans-dead-and-spelled-end-unionized-farm-labor-south-decades-180967289/ This is history, nonetheless, and it’s result contributes to the present atmosphere.

Jim

Distinguishing concrete reality from symbolic [that is, made up and therefore a false] reality among the biggest challenges.

This problem, made more difficult by the fact that: symbolic reality, once believed, in fact has concrete consequences.

In other words, I may be 100 percent sure along with others that the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King defined a phenomena that included three insolubly linked dimensions:

"Now, when I say question the whole society, it means ultimately coming to see that the problem of racism, the problem of exploitation, and the problem of war are all tied together. These are the triple evils that are interrelated." [from his Aug. 16, 1967 Southern Christian Leadership Conference Presidential Address]

He used the word -- racism -- that single time in this speech; he used that word as part of the other two dimensions as indissolubly link.

In other words, there is a power component and dimension inherently explicit and implicit in any discussion on the topic.

His clear and exact enunciation of this concept was, for the rest of us, to accept or reject the triple evil as true or false.

What is going on now -- and use of this noun -- not only lacks conceptual clarity, it creates confusion, on purpose by some of the actors, from what I've been observing.

Thus a symbolic reality has been created, with concrete consequences.

Some creating this symbolic reality intend malice, and are people of ill repute. Some have good intentions.

Many are confused.

And our media apostles and many politicians and business owners on purpose add to the confusion; in fact some of them want confusion, to make money, for political power, for exploitation, to exploit society, etc.

We are living with the concrete consequences of deliberate symbolic-reality creation.

And we cannot deny the consequences of these consequences.

What will they be in future?

Past [and present] tense: what have the consequences of those consequences been so far?

"The mobs in the streets are seeking to destroy America as it has been."

While this is objectively true, the aforementioned villains shall continue to create symbolic reality, what some call "spin" [shorthand for lying]; and continue with their agenda in spite of the inspectable falseness of what they claim.

The war-mongering, craven and abusive personality John Bolton is their latest recruit.

And so, in contradistinction:

Why are Trump supporters kinda happy and gay and kinda see humor in the man?

At least compared to his opponents: universally miserable, hateful, spiteful, insufferable, catty, infantile, illogical, and of course prejudice and often bigoted--despite falsely saying they are liberal/liberals.

Trump supporters are Hedons, or Hippies, or Deplorables -- what ever they are, they are not The Resistance.

The Resistance act like helicopter moms, ME/TOO, BLM, LGBTQ, etc.

They are miserably bossy, pathetic hypocrites, and at the end of the day: all show varying symptoms of: "Abusive Behavior."

Control Freaks. Or as far as I'm concerned, just freaks.

Or as Dostoevsky would say: scum.

Even if they take over, as they are already, they'll eventually collapse of their own weight.

They wear too many masks, and at the end of the day, no one likes a phony.

I don't think they will take over, simply because there really are, in fact, so few of them.

This scum is concentrated in Washington DC, NY, and some of the large cities, but mostly in those two ghettos of false consciousness.

And their control of propaganda organs, euphemistically labeled Mass Media, allow them to project a hegemony that they don't in fact possess. They are like the Wizard of Oz. Just go behind the curtain if you don't believe me....

"But man, proud man,
Drest in a little brief authority,
Most ignorant of what he’s most assur’d;
His glassy essence, like an angry ape,
Plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven,
As make the angels weep. . . ."

-30-

turcopolier

AndreL

IMO you are completely wrong about what would have happened in an open trial which these would have been. The US wanted the world to believe that it was dealing generously with the seceded states. In any other country in the world the Confederate leaders would have been summarily executed.

scott s.

TTW:

Considering the secession of Virginia, the western counties seemed to have a different view of things. I can recommend "Reluctant Confederates: Upper South Unionists in the Secession Crisis" by Daniel Crofts

And I believe if not mistaken the cause of secession was Lincoln's call for 90-day regiments, not invasion.

turcopolier

scotts

The people who lived in the highlands were pro-Union. The people along the Ohio River did not want to secede from Virginia.

Leith

Like Nightsticker and many other Americans I have roots on both sides of that grim period of our history. God bless em all no matter what they were fighting for!

But my one really smart ancestor of that time was Canadien. The family story is that he accepted a $40 enlistment bonus for the Union Army, and then promptly skedaddled back across the border to Quebec. Many years later his daughter met a young Irish immigrant boy and they eloped and fled south never stopping for papers.

ked

Civic statues memorialize collective emotions by transfer into material. Over the course of history they’ve come & gone - many destroyed, forgotten. Some, like the Colossus of Rhodes, we miss even today. It shouldn’t surprise us it is happening here as it has in many pasts. I view our drama as another stage of unfolding imperfection in people, governance, civilization. I don’t think humans score the emotional power of those they oppose very accurately. I don’t think it is worth killing over. I’d prefer to kick the can down the road a bit further.

We might now collect these statues of high controversy - to assemble them for display at themes-of-history parks. Warren Buffett & the Koch Bros. could stroke the check.

English Outsider


Colonel,

From an English perspective I don't see what's happening in the UK, or indeed in the States, as indicative of any serious movement. Nor can it be pretended that it's a sober readjustment of ancient wrongs.

It's mass hysteria tolerated and sometimes encouraged for partisan reasons by many who should know better and who should have more courage.

jerseycityjoan

I don't feel I have anything to say about the earlier history that led to where we are today.

I do find it strange that the people caught up with the destructive actions of the past month have nothing much to say to the rest of us. They do not explain, they do not try to persuade others to agree with them or to join them. They don't let us know who they are or what their larger goals are.

If they think their actions are speaking for them, they are mostly wrong. Just showing the rest of us that you don't like something is meaningless; the meaning must be provided.

People in the past had lots to say. We are still discussing them and their ideas today.

After they stop bothering the statues what's going to change for black people?

turcopolier

ked

Consider the possibility that not everyone is a cynical p---k like you.

srw

An observation and suggestion: As long as we're getting rid of monuments to slave owners, what do you say we start with the Electoral College?

The Twisted Genius

JamesT,

What's happening today is not any kind of organized and planned revolution. It's a spontaneous reaction to enduring conditions and triggering events. Any organization is through multiple local groups. Overarching movement goals are widely shared, but there are overlapping and conflicting goals within the various factions. We'll see what happens with the planned march on Washington in August. National leaders will become apparent by them if they truly exist.

What's happening today is, in my opinion, just a continuation of the Civil War. Initially, the South wanted to continue and expand their economic and social way of life based on black slavery. The North just wanted to enforce the Union. Emancipation was the goal of a vocal minority which I believe the South thought as larger and more influential than it actually was. When Lincoln adopted emancipation, it was as a strategy to win the war and preserve the Union. As the war wore on, the abolitionists gained influence and slavery as a Southern institution was weakened and eventually destroyed.

But that was only the initial step for the near four million former slaves. Reconstruction sought to bring that population into full citizenship. That was a tall, near impossible, task for the white population both North and South, were not ready for this. This was especially true in the South where the culture was even more devastated than the infrastructure and economy. They counterattacked with the KKK resistance, the "Lost Cause" strategy and Jim Crow laws. The civil rights era was the next phase in the Civil War. The African-Americans themselves now moved to the fore of the fight. The fight continued back and forth. The current surge is just the next phase of this more than 150 year struggle... our continuing Civil War.

Beyond the first four years of military fighting and reconstruction, the struggle was never centrally organized and planned. There were prominent leaders and key events on both sides, but no grand plan. Players and their goals remain fluid. At least that's my take on the situation.

The Twisted Genius

Jack,

"How many in the South actually owned slaves? Was it like today where the top 1% own the majority of the wealth?"

Enslaved blacks made up well over 40% and approaching 50% of the total population of the Confederacy. Slave ownership was concentrated, but still 30% of families in the Confederacy owned at least one slave. I found an interactive map showing the growth and movement of slave and non-slave population in the US from 1790 to 1860. I was surprised to see the slave population was so large in 1860. I thought slaves were moved to the deep south to a much greater extent than it was. Alexandria, Virginia was definitely moving in that direction. Slightly less than 11% of the total population was slaves and slightly more than that were free blacks. Slavery was far more pervasive in large parts of Maryland.

https://lincolnmullen.com/projects/slavery/

HARRY C

R.E.Lee statues may return someday. The more I read, the more I feel a suspicion that Lee surreptitiously "threw" the war
to the North by invading. He knew all the south had to do was to hold ground, guerilla style, so recently proven by the militia
against Britain in the Revolution. He HAD to have known. How could
such a high IQ, trained in war, not know? Although trained as an engineer, it is unquestionable that he had a far deeper understanding of war, even as an extrapolation of politics.

Add in a few other oddities about his life, even possible mis / disinfo, & conspiratorial ears perk up.
Much dispute & debate.(his slaves, estate, writings, absence of writings, etc.)

Although his father was a prominent Mason, Robert was "evidently" not a member. Erased?
It crossed my mind when I read that many pages of King Alfred's
books had been "edited".(different ink, different gold leaf, etc.)

One thing one will notice about Freemasonry is the belief in a higher competence above normal human (in)competence. Much of history seems to have been "pre-decided", in hindsight. I read about it in past & present form right here on this blog.

Someday the Masons may (secretly) let the facts emerge. Boy would
that spin some corpses. Academics would poo-poo it for a century or two. Academics abhor new facts that don't fit their narrative.

In light of the history of war, it doesn't seem so far-fetched.

Sorry, can't get my spacing right. Just an idea wanted to get out
before it's memory holed old thread. SST seems like the right place.

Posted by: HARRY C

turcopolier

HarryC
The US Army had no service schools in Lee's time. There was no organized study of war until the 1870s except for one course at WP taught by Dennis Hart Mahan. That was based on Jomini's study of Bonaparte's campaigns. unlike S.Jackson who systematically taught himself about strategy and tactics. Lee did not do that. He was occupied with his infrastructure building except for Mexico where he was exposed to Scott's mind. The process of his service in the WBS is one long series of painful learning experiences. In invading the North twice he was merely seeking a Napoleonic grand cataclysmic outcome. In other words he screwed up his country's chances by not following your advice to follow a Fabian strategy. He didn't know enough to adopt that.

turcopolier

srw

Absolutely against getting rid of the EC. I don't want to be ruled by the critters in NY, CA, Fl.

turcopolier

TTG

When I was at VMI in the late 50s-ear;y 60's the war was clearly still ongoing. nobody talked about the war but it clearly formed the background of peoples' minds. IMO the struggle will continue. This is not approaching a resolution. The Democrats and their militias as T. Carlson calls them are just pissing people off. Even if the Democrats win the November election the struggle will continue.

Jack

“Even if the Democrats win the November election the struggle will continue.”

Sir,

In my opinion not much will change even if Democrats sweep with the trifecta in November. Obama began his first term with Congress in the hands of the Democrats. He continued the neocon and neoliberal policies that George Bush continued from Clinton. A Biden presidency will be a return to that. Chicago will still be violent. Wall St will continue to receive their tribute. Xi will once again bask in the sun. AIPAC will remain in the catbird seat.

Where in this struggle do the new immigrants from East and South Asia, the Middle East, Central & South America, Eastern Europe and even Polynesia fit in?

None have ancestors who fought in the Civil War and have no bloodline to the American Revolution and the great constitutional debates. Of course it could be said that the many European immigrants who arrived in the early 20th century did not have ancestors that fought in the war too. How do we create a national purpose and a common set of values with such huge diversity of experience and traditions?

Account Deleted

The Colonel wrote: "The people along the Ohio River did not want to secede from Virginia."

I recall reading a book written after the war. It mentioned that travel on the Ohio below the Mason Dixon line was in hostile territory. Boats were often fired upon from both sides of the river. Only the counties north of the MD had a grievance with VA. They felt they were being shortchanged by Richmond. Now they complain that they are being shortchanged by Charleston.

optimax

Casey, Thank you for the heads up on OPTI-CANVAS. A little surfing exposes them and their friends to be a world-wide revolutionary movement organized to overthrow and restructure existing nations states. This is what our current resistance is about with the DNC being the beneficiary, though their sidelining, or overthrow if you will, is pre-planned. One of the friends of CANVAS is listed as Building a Movement (BAM). They design a revolutionary movement with advertising techniques. Branding. Here' one of their videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=6&v=kVKEclmhy28&feature=emb_logo

A list of friends of CANVAS.

https://canvasopedia.org/friends/

This points to the US colored revolution is really a color revolution, and that these groups are well funded and worldwide.

I need a drink. Manhatten.

Babak Makkinjead

Col. Lang:

There is a story told in Mathnavi Ma'anavi - متنوی معنوی - by Rumi in which Jesus and his disciples come across the carcass of a puppy. Each disciple says something negative about the carcass: "How disgusting!", "What a stench!" and so on and so forth.

When all are done spewing their disgust, Jesus states: "But did you notice his beautiful white teeth?"

To wit:

During the War Between the States, the Confederacy maintained complete press freedom, did not suspend the writ of habeas corpus and did not confiscate private property - in contradistinction to the Union.

In the conduct of the war, the Confederates, to my knowledge, never approximated anything like the war crimes of Sherman's March - even taking into account Jeb Stuart's joy riders' crimes. Lee explicitly forbid his troops from retaliating, when marching North of the Mason-Dixon line, for earlier acts of the Union Armies' acts of wanton destruction.

The South, as a culture, in my opinion, was something that only had existed in England for a centuries; a rural civilization in which the capital city was used for temporary conduct of state affairs and then people went back to their home counties for the rest of the year.

This model of a working rural-centric civilization - in contrast to the contemporary hyper-urban and hyper-concentrated civilizations all over the world - in my opinion - had much to recommend itself even now.

The War, the Reconstruction, and the transformation of the South into an internal colony destroyed it.

I also would like to point out that the Southern culture, had cultivated such impractical ideals as breeding, gentlemanly decorum, fashion, and charm.

Lastly, just as the Revolutions of 1848, in pursuit of such unimpeachable ideals as Republicanism and Freedom weakened the Concert of Europe and helped ushers in the wars of 1914 and 1939, the destruction of the Southern political power removed the domestic restraints in the United States on the exercise of American power abroad; the North chose to go on the path of Imperialism sometime in 1870s and we are still witnessing the consequences of that choice.


turcopolier

Babak

Yes. "even taking into account Jeb Stuart's joy riders' crimes." Which are those? the Confederate leaders were very conservative men and generally sought to keep partisan warfare on a tight rein to prevent a collapse of standards of behavior. It is true that McCausland's cavalry brigade was sent to Chambersburg, PA by Jubal Early to exact reparations for Union depredations in Virginia. When they did not pay up, McCausland burned most of the town. McCausland's brigade was not part of Stuart's command.

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