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09 June 2020

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TV

Think this is bad?
See that picture of the "police" chief in Webster, Ma. lying face down?
Being Mass., probably get a medal and a raise.

srw

Trump does a photo op at St. John's Episcopal church. Democrats reply by taking a knee for slain George Floyd. Who's next and which was more effective?

JMH

Irony alert:

Was Chauvin ever assessed through the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory?

JerseyJeffersonian

Deap,

It is my understanding that the true revival of ancient Greek thought in the West really dates from the arrival of Byzantine Greek scholars in Italy after the fall of Byzantium. These scholars brought with them the full canon of ancient Greek thought in the original Greek. Although it is certainly true that Islamic scholars had communicated at least some strands of ancient Greek thought to the Islamic world, this was due to their acquaintance with this tradition from earlier contacts with Christian scholars in conquered lands in the Middle East. They filtered this through the prism of Arabic, but the full exposure of the West to the original ancient Greek thinkers and scientists awaited the arrival of the Byzantine Greeks with the texts in the original Greek. And not only Aristotle became available in the original full form texts, but also those of the Platonists, too. Witness, for instance, the profound influence of Plato and Platonic thought on the works of Ficino and Bruno, only possible because of the availability of these ancient texts.

Babak, the Zoroastrian world view had a profound influence on Jewish thought during the times of Jewish presence in Persia. The development of eschatological thinking was directly influenced by the concept of a one way, historical progression of time of the Zoroastrians as opposed to the eternal recurrance of divine archetypes of those who did not conceive of existence in these one way historical terms. See the scholarly work of Mircea Eliade in which this debt of the Jews (and subsequent traditions such as the Christian and Islamic) to Zoroastrian thought is acknowledged and delineated.

TV

George Floyd was a career criminal.
His funeral was for a hero.
?????
He was a bad guy who had a bad experience with (stupid) police.
In 2020 Amerika, there vill be NO FACTS.
Only emotional dimwits howling at the moon.

EEngineer

@Deap and all the rest of you. Chaos and mayhem all around and still we have the calm and perspective of true scholarship. That's what I come here for.

jonst

Babak, one might think (hope) for even a minimal reduction in the sanctions by the US. Just for change sake, if nothing else. To see what if any effect it might have. I'm weary of all the sanctions. That does not mean, as some people might try to read it, as me condoning anything. I just want a bit of change to ascertain what the reaction might be.

English Outsider


Fred - Schumer and Pelosi are surely just riding the tiger for partisan purposes. Not that expertly, either. It's their job to get the votes in. If activist prog is the way to do that they'll go that way with as little thought as they dress themselves up in polyester Kente.

Not that they're dim. To me Mrs Pelosi seems highly intelligent. But conviction politics is their tool, not their central concern.

They're playing with dangerously disruptive forces as they pursue their single-minded quest for votes. No holds barred partisan politics isn't that safe a game at present, not with those tools.

More and more middle of the roaders are looking on sceptically at that game. I came across an article today from a man who does not, as you do, study the Culture Wars. Seems he's been too engrossed with our local affairs over here to have much time to spare for them. He nevertheless comes to much the same conclusion -

"The people pushing BLM couldn’t give a tinker’s toss about racism. This is just about destabilising the country in the hope of fomenting revolution. This is where the state can’t afford to cede even an inch to them. I’m all for a liberal and tolerant society but we can’t afford a supine and cowardly government which doesn’t even recognise the threat. That we caved into the mob this week is worrying. If the government won’t defend the country from agitators then voters will look to someone they think will. And that doesn’t end well either."

https://www.turbulenttimes.co.uk/news/politics/it-starts-with-a-statue/

Oddly enough I still see Trump as the bulwark against the civil disorder that will inevitably follow if the "Culture Wars" get up more steam.

Babak makkinejad

Leith:

Greek and Roman historians placed him at 8600 years from the present.

Which religion did you have in mind?

Babak makkinejad

Jonst

From your lips to God's wars.

However, somethings are just too entrenched now in the United States to change: Cuba, Iran, North Korea, and soon Venezuela and I supposed Russia and China.

Until all the human beings in the United States who support those policies age and die, no change could be expected, in my opinion.

In case of US sanctions against Iran, the situation is even worse than say Cuba: in pursuit of destroying the enemies of Israel, the United States has besmirched her own honor. There is no way back now.

Matthew

Fred: I was beign sarcastic. Imagine how much they will grovel at the next AIPAC conference if this level of threater is the new normal.

Seward

"But I shall spare seven thousand in Israel: all the knees that have not bent before Baal, all the mouths that have not kissed him."

[1 Kings 19:18, the Lord speaking to Elijah at Mt. Horeb in the still, small voice.]

Seneschal

Knowledge of Greek (pagan) philosophy was never lost in the east. The eastern Church fathers were by and large well acquainted with it and not a few were formally educated in it. You can find Plato hiding amidst the frescoes in the narthexes of some Orthodox churches, along with Moses and other OT patriarchs and prophets. From Plato and Moses you get Philo and the Alexandrian Jews. From Philo draw a line to Origen. From Origen draw a line to Gregory of Nyssa, Athanasius, and the other early fathers - all of these reference Platonic notions in implicit or explicit terms, as do other apologists.

Any notion that the Church canceled Plato would be erroneous. Conditions in the west following the collapse of the Western Empire were responsible for the so-called Dark Ages there. The Church didn't cause the collapse but it suffered because of it, the most obvious symptom being the Schism.

turcopolier

Matthew

Don't forget the groveling to any manifestation of negritude. And then the massed anti-white horde tore down a statue of Columbus in Richmond plus poor John Wickham.

blum

... See the scholarly work of Mircea Eliade in which this debt of the Jews (and subsequent traditions such as the Christian and Islamic) to Zoroastrian thought is acknowledged and delineated.
Posted by: JerseyJeffersonian | 09 June 2020 at 11:34 PM

That's quite funny really. Mircea Eliade? Really? I do have his work at hand, you want me to look something up to prove your point.

DH

WPFIII: "Thus arrayed they could be taking an oath to embark on a crusade, ca. 1096."

It's eerie and hilarious how spaced apart they are. Monty Python-esque.

Stephanie

optimax,

Five kids by three different women, none in marriage. Hadn't seen his son since the boy was five. The mother he called for as he was dying also unmarried, it seems. These patterns must be hard to break.

Chauvin may have actually done the kids a favor. I read that their college educations will be paid for. And now they have a martyr for a father instead of the corner drunk.

Leith

Babak -

No unanimity among historians regarding his time on earth. Some may have claimed 8600 years ago. Others have claimed he proceeded Cyrus by only a century or two. I'd bet he was in the middle somewhere, perhaps four millenia ago as proposed by linguistic historians and also posited by Encyclopaedia Iranica. But we may never know. Too bad Alexander allowed his troops to burn down and destroy the library in Persepolis.

In any case just like Christianity & Islam, his religion was NOT completely unprecedented and made out of new cloth. His inspiration came from the the religion and culture in place when he was a child. Ahura Mazda was present in older Central Asian Indo-Aryan religion, as was Asura in those Indo-Aryans who migrated to India.

Great guy though. I'm not mocking him. He is cited as being the first philosopher and the father of ethics; preceding Plato, Buddha, and Confucius. He was the first that we know of to propose 'one God'. I wonder if his ideas on monotheism spread to Egypt and inspired Pharaoh Akhenaten's single god in the 14th Century BC?

Paul Marino

Just imagine what would happen if Republicans were 1/10th as proactive in courting the white vote...

Deap

Democrats want a do-over and "Jamaican" Kamala Harris has issued a no comment:

......." These scarves were traditionally worn by the wealthy land-owners and dignitaries of the Ashanti (or Asante) tribes of what is now known as Ghana. They were made of silk, making them not only rare but also symbolic of wealth. More importantly, they were adorned by those who were involved in the pervasive slave trade the wealthy of the Ashanti tribe embraced.


You read that right. The elite in the Ashanti tribe who wore these stoles throughout history were slave owners and even slave traders. They were a scourge throughout the reason, taking people from tribes they would conquer and selling them as slaves. According to Wikipedia:

The Ashanti live in Ashanti specifically in Ashanti capital Kumasi metropolis and due to the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade, a known diaspora of Ashanti exists in the Caribbean, particularly in Jamaica. Slaves captured by the Ashantis and sold to the British and the Dutch along the coasts were sent to the West Indies, particularly Jamaica, Barbados, Netherlands Antilles, British Virgin Islands. the Bahamas etc. Ashanti are known to be very opposed to both the Fante and the British people, as the Ashanti only traded with the Dutch in times of their ascension to becoming a hegemony of most of the area of present-day Ghana.

Democrats went to war for the sake of preserving slavery. Opposition to the Civil Rights Movement was mostly from Democrats. Their history of embracing domination over Black people is well document and apparently continues today."

optimax

Stephanie

Floyd's go fund me is 14 million and rising. Media programming of der people is perfected.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/georgefloyd

Defund government.

optimax

With 14 million Floyd's kids don't need college to succeed. They can buy gas stations cheap in Minneapolis at the moment and keep the fire burnin in their father's name--the city will an eternal flame.

Babak makkinejad

Thank you Leith.

The language of Gathas is so ancient, likely part of an Oral Tradition that was transmitted from chest to chest, that it is incomprehensible. This implies that his time was prior to that of Cyrus the Great by at least a millenia.

Many Zoroastrians try to pose Zoroaster as a sort of philosopher since a philosopher seems to get more respect nowadays than a prophet, it seems.

But they are wrong.

Zoroaster was the first one who comprehended or discovered or intuited or to whom was revealed the deep moral structure of the Universe.

To wit, he inverted the hierarchy of gods and super-beings, elevated the Asuras and demoted the Devas. To this day , the word for Demon in Persian is Div, related to Deva in Sanskrit.

He was the first prophet, and the first holy warrior for religion, and the first evangelist who sent men to transmit his message.

He was also the first prophet that was martyred - by the damed Turanians.

His idea of Light as the essence of God is with us to this day, in Christianity and in Islam. In fact, one can consider the electromagnetic field, without which Life cannot exist, to be both a manifestation and the analigue of the Divine Light that permeates the Universe and sustains it.

All prophets came from under the robes of Zoroaster, in my opinion.

Artemesia

to Babak, 11 Jun. 2020: Thank you.
It was my good fortune to have visited the Fire Temple at Yazd and to have climbed the Tower of Silence.

It is not at all implausible that Jesus of Nazareth came in contact with Persians - Zoroastrians, inasmuch as the Persians and Romans carried on border wars--and trade (shades of US-China) for centuries, including the time that Jesus is said to have lived and died. It is also true that very many Jews were part of Persia, and that very many Jews were, of course, part of the Roman Empire, and that the two groups of Jews clashed as often as they collaborated.

Leith

Babak -

A prophet for sure.

Although I would argue he was also a philosopher. Not in the narrow sense today in the west that we have of intellectuals in academia (no offense). But in the classical sense of the word he seems to me to have been a 'pursuer of wisdom', from φίλος (phílos, “loving”) + σοφία (sophía, “wisdom”).

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