Running While Black By Walrus.

I don’t quite know how to describe the death of Ahmaud Arbery apart from calling it a tragedy. There are any number of articles containing every sort of view possible. Lest someone complain about my observation, I regard this death as a tragedy for the alleged killers, their friends and supporters, the black community and perhaps others who may yet become involved in this mess.

The reports seem to allege that Armhaud Arbery had been linked to burglaries in the local area. He was seen running - the press uses the term “jogging”, it is not clear if this was his neighbourhood but that is a secondary and ultimately unimportant point. Three white men armed themselves and apparently gave chase. Arbery was stopped, an armed struggle ensued and he was shot dead.

Allegedly no Georgia laws were broken by the pursuers. Open carry is legal. So is citizens arrest. So is the use of deadly force in defense. Arbery had a criminal record but the pursuers didn’t know that.

I am reminded of the Trayvon Martin case. I think that also pivoted on suspicion of criminal activity as a justification for the premeditated use of deadly force.

I think it is valid to ask the question: just how is a black person supposed to respond to white men, not officers, carrying guns? What would have happened if Arbery had been armed and, in fear for his own life, shot and killed his attackers? What if the pursuers had also been black? Are incidents like these an unfortunate, predictable and consequential outcome of the Second Amendment that have to be born lest tyranny reappear?

If this is not a fit subject for discussion at SST, I will be happy for this post to be deleted.

 

Comments

[scott s.]

Interesting that a Google search turned up "no results" and then a few minutes later, just this post. I had to use Duck Duck Go to actually find out about this (plus you wiki link which Google had censored).

[turcopolier]

walrus

Why would I delete it? Is it because you think I am a racist? The question should be if the shooting was justifiable.

[Jose]

The question should be if the shooting was justifiable. - turcopolier

Same for Trayvon Martin case...

I am reminded of the Trayvon Martin case. I think that also pivoted on suspicion of criminal activity as a justification for the premeditated use of deadly force.

Can you prove it in court with facts or just your feelings?

[Tyler]

I too remember the initial reporting by the media that was 100% factual and non hysterical when Trayvon Martin was shot by white hispanic George Zimmerman.

I also remember how the family was famously candid about Martin and his behavior, as well as not engaging in facetious speculation.

[Tyler]

Seriously, 2020 and some of y'all are ready to go running for the library if I told you gullible wasn't in the dictionary.

Shameful.

[The Twisted Genius]

Scott S.,

The search results are not sinister. Try using the normal US spelling of Armaud Arbery. I'm not surprised that we haven't heard about this with covid-19 dominating the news. I only heard about this yesterday on the radio while driving to Richmond. If it wasn't for someone posting the video, we would never hear of it. Let's face it. If the colors were reversed, two black men would have been in jail on suspicion of murder long ago.

[Fred]

I'm reminded of that jury finding Hispanic George Zimmerman not guilty too. I haven't heard any details from down under about the biggest loss of police officer life in Victoria's history on SST though. Apparently that won't affect the US election, though we will certainly have witches involved in it.
https://7news.com.au/news/vic/eastern-freeway-crash-truck-driver-mohinder-singh-claims-he-was-avoiding-witch-when-he-allegedly-hit-police-officers-c-1019116

[Eric Newhill]

Jose,
I seem to recall the Martin case hinging on Zimmerman defending himself when Martin jumped on him and started bashing his head - a reasonable response to someone following you. We should all do that. Bash heads first, ask questions later. Guess it depends on which media you pay attention to. Amazing how organizations tasked with reporting "the facts" are so wildly discrepant.

How surprising that a cause celebre involving white supremist Nazi racists attempts to arise in the media as we approach election time!

[Laura Wilson]

"Allegedly no Georgia laws were broken by th pursuers..." If true, then vigilantes are the new normal. My friends who are parents of black boys live in fear. A fear that I have never even had to deal with or discuss. That reality is truly a tragedy.

[ponderer]

IIRC, In the Trevon Martin case the defendant testified he was ambushed. After the physical alteration the "victim" reached for the defendant's gun and they struggled over it. Seems like a justified use of force and a jury agreed. I'm not sure about this case, the details matter. Lot's of details get lost when the media gets a case like this so as to not "prejudice" anyone. I noticed in the description above there was no mention of a previous firearms offense, taking a gun on school grounds...

I think it's a valid question to ask why race should matter at all in the question of justice. It's more important to ask if a citizen should be able to detain another one with no direct evidence to a crime.

[Valissa]

Tim Pool did a great video on this topic earlier today. Btw, Tim is a self described liberal and left leaning, but who is very unhappy with the current trajectory of the left, the lefty media and Democrats in general and many of his videos/podcasts express this frustration.

Ahmaud Arbery WAS NOT Murdered In Cold Blood, The Leftist Narrative Is Manipulation, Video Exists https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSQN3TzrpO8 (~23 min)

[turcopolier]

TTG
"Let's face it. If the colors were reversed, two black men would have been in jail on suspicion of murder long ago." This is a political statement for which you have no evidence.

[turcopolier]

TTG

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSQN3TzrpO8

[Barbara Ann]

The facts of this case probably no longer matter, from a legal standpoint, as Joe Biden has probably made a murder conviction impossible. On 6th he tweeted "The video is clear: Ahmaud Arbery was killed in cold blood." The tweet has over 90k 'likes'. Any defense counsel for the alleged killers will surely now claim that a fair trial is impossible. If I were of a cynical bent I would say that this may have been the exact intent of the tweet. Political point-scoring trumps justice every time.

[Tidewater]

Why was Arbery, a football hero at the All-State level, carrying a .380 handgun stuck in his waistband at a Brunswick High School basketball game when he was a student there? The Browning .380 ACP has evolved since 1908 into an expensive automatic pistol. But it did manage to start WWI. It is not your standard .38. That's an entirely different weapon, generally a pistol, as far as I know. One War II MAG sidearm I have holds five rounds, I think. It could have been a Sig(Sauer)P238, or a Ruger, or a Glock. The Glock magazine is ten rounds, eleven with one chambered. Where did Arbery get this $400.00-$500.00 firearm from? What does he need it for? This is batshit crazy!

[walrus]

Col. Lang, of course your not a racist! My concern was whether this brouhaha was all fake news that would lower the quality SST.

My own opinion of this matter is that the Second Amendment is so important and valuable that accidents and incidents such as this must be accepted as the cost of free access to firearms.

As for the circumstances of this case I cannot say.

[walrus]

Tidewater,

I think it is natural for teenage males to become aggressive as they grow and that includes “walking the talk” at the very least. Some of us sublimated this aggression into sports, education or community service. Others become real or pretend gangstas. Was this guys firearm loaded when he took it to school?

[SAC Brat]

walrus,

If you search local news from Georgia you will find other cases of people chasing a suspected person in their neighborhood. It seems stupid for a property crime but people get excited. In these other cases the optics aren't something the national media finds interesting.

[Mark Logan]

The coroner's report says three men were pursuing him with "first hand probable cause", which implies a specific crime that same day, pretty much.

The details of exactly what the coroner was referring to there will be key.

[Fred]

Tidewater,

Whether the man paid retail or street price 6 or 7 years ago is rather irrelevant to what happened this February. Earning $400-500 in high school isn't that hard. What did he need it for? Wrong question. Was it legal in Georgia to own it, maybe, it certainly wouldn't have been legal to take it to school, if any of that is actually true; but that's all beside the point now too.
BTW the father and son just got arrested.
https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2020/05/08/father-son-arrested-charged-with-murder-in-shooting-of-brunswick-jogger/

[The Twisted Genius]

pl,

I watched that YouTube video you posted and I stand by my statement that if the colors were reversed, two black men would have been arrested a long time ago. Yes, it is a political statement now backed up by the arrest today of the two white men for murder. Given the circumstances, I doubt they will face murder charges, but it sure looks like felony menacing resulting in manslaughter.

Tidewater,

That 380 that Arbery brought to school in 2012 was an imported Makarov now worth $300 to $350. He obviously shouldn't have brought it to school or he wouldn't have received a 5 year suspended sentence for the incident. What would he have needed it for? The 2A applied to all Americans, black and white. I carried a KaBar as a kid and even brought it to school a few times.

[Tidewater]

Fred,

The question is, at this point, whether or not there has been, or will be, an indictment. I don't see how a grand jury could indict on this. Unless they want to test a lot of things in Georgia law--the current 'hold your ground' law; the current right of a citizen to pursue a suspected law breaker and detain him until a police officer arrives; the current right to deadly force if it has finally come to a struggle for control over a weapon which has been presented to enforce a citizen's arrest. (Citizen's arrest, by the way, I have been told, is a right or law which in Virginia does not really exist and it should never be attempted.)

If, incredibly, it does go to trial, the 'happy go lucky' deceased --note well that family code usage, I knew one 'happy go lucky' guy who killed six people, and I got to kind of like him, for A' that-- has a background that is quite relevant and that includes his mental and criminal records. I just took a look at Georgia law. Those records are admissible, even after the statutory ten years if the probative value outweighs the prejudicial effect. Robert Willman: SOS.

[George Chamberlain]

Jogging in boots?
Attack a man with a shot gun?
Drug test time!
We need a whole lot more information before we come to a conclusion on this one.

[optimax]

I do believe the law sayz you can only make a citizens arrest if you see a criminal act, not because you see a black man running down the street. It's dumb luck Arbery ran into two Bozos with a shotgun. Reminds me of an old African-American slave song traced back to 1851. This is my favorite version.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKGNvo8WTrA

[Tidewater]

TTG,

Interesting that in Connecticut a 4" balisong, which opens out to eight inches with handle and blade, with a flick of the wrist, is legal, but anything over four inches, if you had happened to get caught with it, like a bowie knive or KA-BAR, means you would have had to join the Marines, right? Which you were supposed to do, anyway? So your uncles and father would have been delighted?

I hope your distinguished family member, Xhenet Aliu, is going to take some vacation time off to get over to the coast to look into this case. She might just make it her own.