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28 May 2020

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BillWade

Seems "Hollywood -ish" to me. I guess I've seen video of most of the riots over the past 60 years but I've never seen Whites involved except as victims.

Harry

Quite so. But I doubt the Minneapolis authorities will be able to so do. Police unions are a powerful and organised political force. I suspect what we will see is something performative, followed by the matter being quietly downgraded later.

But police departments run the risk of undermining their moral authority by tolerating the minority of bad actors. They should act to ensure the rule of law. Or where are any of us?

The Beaver

Colonel

Did you see the latest video?
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/new-video-appears-show-george-floyd-ground-three-officers-n1217476

turcopolier

elaine

Minnesota

Barbara Ann

So now Twitter has decided that the POTUS is glorifying violence with the words "when the looting starts, the shooting starts".

Whether you agree or not seems less important to me than whether you think private social media companies should be allowed to make these kind of decisions and block selected content. Trump has now signed an executive order with some provisions for the FCC to regulate online platforms. I don't think this is the right way to go. My guess is this route will prove difficult and ultimately Trump will leave Twitter & take the whole administration with him to the conservative platform Gab. Who knows, we could end up with a Coke/Pepsi dichotomy in social media patronage as future administrations come into office.

Fred

elaine,

"The state must prove every element of the crime."
Just like with Justine Diamond, whose killer, also an on duty Minneapolis police officer, was convicted and recieved a 12 1/2 year prison sentance. The media, however, are interested in ratings not in discovering every element of a crime. The video from TMZ (posted by Jack, above) shows 6 minutes or so of video coverage at the start but is edited to end before the officer is seen to have his knee on Floyd's neck. What happened in between is going to come out later.

rho

ex PFC Chuck,

"Target is HQed here in the Twin Cities and it's my understanding that particular store had been their test bed for loss prevention techniques for roll-out to the rest of their properties. Some of what they tried out there didn't go down well with that inner city community and as a result the store became a focal point of dissatisfaction."

What exactly are those "loss prevention techniques"? Does it have something to do with making shoplifting more difficult, and that pissed off the thugs so much that they were looking for an excuse to burn the whole store down?

BillWade

I've been reading:

that the "knee on neck" tactic is used by Israeli police forces and is not an American tactic.

Officer Chauvin(ist)'s neighbor didn't know he was a cop, "thought he was a realtor".

An undercover police officer started the violence, used a hammer to break the first window while other protestors told him to stop, he slinked off under cover of an umbrella.

The cop and the deceased worked together as security for a night club. The club was sold a few months ago. The former owner is a "La Raza" supporter.

I understand that there will be complexities regarding how this cop should be charged and this will take some time to figure out. But, why haven't him and the other cops been arrested yet and held pending investigation?

We pay the police to keep the peace, not to run away from trouble.

JohninMK

Bill Wade you raised an interesting point that had struck me too. That both the cop on top and the victim underneath almost certainly knew each other as they were both bouncers on the same shift at the same nightclub.

It does seem to be a pointless crime, maybe there was a personal aspect to this?

Jim S

Jose,

I watched that video as well. The point which struck me is that, based on the partial evidence available, ThinkLikeACop indicates the officers in question were most likely following departmental policy, up to and including restraint by kneeling on Mr Floyd's neck. He sounds pretty disgusted by that. Note that Donut Operator (also on youtube) does not agree that this is a valid method, but different jurisdictions vary.

So in addition to the individual culpability, there's most likely an institutional/ROE aspect. I would look at the mayor of Minneapolis and the governor of Minnesota to address this if they are serious about fixing the problem.

Eric Newhill

Babak,
Who would have guessed that there are Islamic students of Alinsky. Use your targets' high standards against them, eh?

So Floyd, a savage, who, among his many transgressions, stuck a loaded gun into a woman's belly while committing robbery, who appears to have been carrying drugs and then resisted arrest, gets killed by the arresting officers.

The officers are to be held to the highest standards of conduct, as well they should be. They failed miserably in the regard and must be punished for their lapse into savagery. And the savage's confederates play the victim game and amp up their savagery by burning and looting.

Keep tempting fate and sooner or later fate will meet you. As I have said before, if you chew rocks you'll break your teeth, but not because I want your teeth to break. And don't blame others when they do.

BillWade

JohninMK, It all seems staged to me. There's a very small, I hope, percentage of people who enjoy "snuff films". Now we've all been treated to one.

BABAK MAKKINEJAD

Eric Newhill:

Well, we all know where you are coming from.

So, you are stating that a criminal deserves to be murdered?

That he has no rights?

Ah yes, let us bring Abu Gharaib practices into the United States.

"Savage"? Amazing that I am hearing from you the same sentiment that I heard from this Pakistani describing his fellow country men from Sindh: "They are shit people."

BABAK MAKKINEJAD

Fred:

So the Press - the 4-th pillar of Democracy - are doing their job - mud racking.

I do not find anything to object.

Jose

Follow-up:

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/cortneyobrien/2020/05/29/minnesota-attorney-there-might-not-be-a-criminal-charge-here-n2569674

Serge

Rho,

I don't know anything about the rollout of new techniques in that area, but Target is notorious amongst the shoplifting community for having some of the toughest LP in the biz. They will always chase, get police involved, and they actively build cases/share info with other stores. Very dedicated LP division and this has been the case for years. Pretty much a golden rule in that community to never lift from Target

walrus

I was waiting for someone to blame Floyd for his own death, I didn’t have to wait long. Usually, in civilized jurisdictions, police are taught they have a duty of care, even to the most violent and disgusting offenders that are in their charge. To put that another way, even convicted hardened criminals have Constitutional rights. Except it seems in Minneapolis.

turcopolier

walrus

I hope you remember the Trayvon Martin case. The county DA overcharged whatever the shooter's name was and lost the case in a jury trial that included Blacks and women because they could not produce evidence to support a charge of 2nd degree murder. Chauvin had been charged with 3rd degree murder and manslaughter. What do you do in Australia? Do you turn anyone accused over to a lynch mob?

fanto

Thank you Colonel for this post. And I would also emphasize what Chuba said above, who trained these guys and where did they have their training?? this should be made public

backsdrummer

I was a patrol officer in the early 1990s in a large city in the southeast. Back then, we had about a 3% attrition rate in the department. It was not unusual to meet officers who had worked the same beat for 15 years (I knew one on the same beat for about 25 years!) and most stayed until retirement. Their knowledge of their neighborhoods made up for their diminishing physical abilities. Also the older officers were less aggressive and it was a common practice to pair a young, aggressive officer with an older one to keep the inexperienced one out of trouble.

Over the next 25 years the city cut the pay of new hires about 30% (by refusing to fund their pay-step longevity raises) and also all but eliminated the pension for all new hires. This was done because too many of us were retiring and living a long happy life which they could not afford. The State Constitution protected us old guys from having our pay cut and pension taken away, but the new hires faced a dim future. Also the job description and public expectations mushroomed. As you might expect, recruiting and retention became much harder.

Just before I retired in 2014, I was working a desk job near our recruiting unit and became friends with some of the recruiters. Attrition was nearly 30%. Very few officers stayed more than 3 years. When I went through the academy in 1990 about 66% of the class quit or was cut for being unfit. By 2014, NO ONE was being cut and whole classes were being ushered through to graduation. I suspect the physical and psychological standards had been lowered to meet the need for bodies to fill the empty positions. The requirements for promotion were also all lowered, especially time in service or there would have been a great shortage of sergeants and lieutenants, so the level of experience and quality of the supervisors also dropped dramatically.

I believe my city is not unique and this is a nationwide trend.

I have not policed on the streets for many years, but my guess is that there are too many young, inexperienced officers and first line supervisors, some of whom shouldn't be in the job in the first place. They need older and more experienced personnel to lead the new hires and keep them out of trouble, but the state of pay and benefits prevents this. None of this excuses bad behavior, but it is a formula for trouble.

When events like this one happen, the best thing we can do is insist on a thorough investigation and that all due process be followed. It's not justice you seek if you are asking for special favors or predetermined outcomes.

Frank W McCullough

There is a mysterious figure that could be lurking in the background of both the Ahmaud Arbery and the George Floyd cases: the parole officer. On the day that they died, did both of these ex-cons have parole officers? If so, as far as I can see, both men were going back to jail. And knew it.

I was once upon a time surprised to learn that the world of the ex-con is a far different world from anything I had ever imagined, not that I had even thought much about it. The freed felon is not free at all. Everything is conditional. He has entered a new world governed by a large powerful institutional bureaucracy , and to which he is commanded to report in to on a regular basis. He is hedged in, and the restrictions can endure for years. There are places he cannot go; there are people he cannot see. It has all been worked out, usually with a lawyer. Documents have been signed. His word is no longer his bond, as he was wont to say. Even in a city like New York, you could be forbidden to go even a few miles from the east side into the west Village to see your cousin. (The point would be, the cousin.)

If you get caught breaking parole, you can always argue the whole thing, usually with a lawyer, or even sometimes pro se, but that could be in a prison courtroom, which are there for that purpose. You will definitely be doing it from jail. It might only be jail for three weeks, or three months--but think about it! Your life is going to be, as they say, really messed up.

Why does George Floyd look up to the sky and contort his face in agony when he is simply under arrest in a routine he has done many times before? Why is he so agitated that it takes four officers to control him? What I suspect is that he sees, in his mind's eye, his parole officer.

On February 23, 2020, in the Channel 4 video taken from a security camera acrosss the street from the house of Larry English, at approximately 02:08:50 or thereabouts, Ahmaud Arbery walks into the frame and turns quickly to look at the street behind him. He also, as far as I am concerned, looks directly at me--since I am now the camera. He then goes quickly into the garage area of the house, then out, for a second to go back into another part of the garage area, and then obviously goes from the left side of the house to the right side of the house as you face it on screen. You can see, I think, some movement, a light reflection, inside the windows there. That quick bit of surveillance he does convinces me that he has, at this moment, a guilty mind.

At 02:12:23 roughly, a man with a cell phone walks up to a tree on the far edge of the property and looks towards the English house that Arbery has just entered. He makes a phone call. I think we have that phone call. It is about a trespasser in the English house.

At about 02:13:37 Ahmaud Arbery does leave leave the front door of the house running at such speed that given the low frequency of the security camera shots he almost seems to be a blur. The man who is making the phone call has been taped saying something to the effect "There he goes now." Arbery makes no effort to talk to this man. He runs down the other side of the street, probably no more than twenty feet from the man, and I suspect he may have seen or even heard the man. I think he is fleeing. He may be a jogger, but he is also something else, a prowler.

Arbery is actually running down the street to his death. He will do something that is so amazingly bizarre, trying to take a shotgun away from a man, lunging at him, that the question must be asked. Is he panicked? And that is because of his parole officer?

There is not doubt that trespassing--which is clearly indicated here-- will get him, immediately, with his record, 'violated.' (Assuming he still reports to a parole officer on the shop-lifting charges. And the parole officer is going to be involved, one way or the other, in a prosecution, regardless.) Ahmaud's panic then, is because the security videos, of which he is deeply aware, have been useless up to this point --they only show an unknown black male. If his identify can be attached to as many as three videos, they could become critical to his case. He might be able to talk his way out of a trespassing charge in court, but his fear is now about where he is going to eat supper and spend the night. And what to say to his mother.

There's another thing. Trespassing charges could also effect the whole question of his seeking further eduation, or not, at a technial school.

I think that the parole status of both Ahmaud Arbery and George Floyd is the key to understanding their strange behavior as we see, some of it, at least, captured on video.

Fred

Babek,

"I do not find anything to object."
I'm certain the Iranian government has no objections to biased media coverage negatively affecting the Trump administration.

Deap

Murder is murder when it is intentional and proven in a court of law beyond a reasonable doubt by a jury of one's peers. Negligent homicide is not murder. Drug abuse and underlying co-morbidities leading to one's own coincidental demise is not even homicide. Pray at best this does not get listed as a covid-19 death.

Babak makkinejad

Frank W McCullough

Thank you.

Babak makkinejad

backsdrummer

Thank you.

Another instance of not investing in human capital.

I also heard that Israelis have been training US police.

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