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05 May 2020

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walrus

What are you going to say if lockdowns are removed and that triggers a massive second wave about 3-4 weeks later?

That’s right, blame Fauci and Birx.

turcopolier

walrus

I am going to say that it was the right thing to do.

Mark Logan

The REALLY clever bugs don't kill their hosts. The common cold and flu bugs don't engender full-scale war against them.

There is an old book that describes the basics of the immune system in a way that laymen can understand. Had to read it in high school and noticed it has been re-published by the author, Glasser, in 2012. Reads like a science fiction story, fantastically well equipped aliens against fantastically well equipped aliens. The spooky sophistication of our own immune system seem as alien as the bugs it fights. Worth a read, and lord knows a lot of us have spare time right now.

"The Body Is The Hero"

Artemesia

Fred -" Fauci, the Bernie Madoff of Science"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=344&v=5wHzrYtV5lw&feature=emb_logo

---
Another curiosity: Dr. Anne Schuchat was "the face of CDC" for the SARS. She spoke for and with Trump several times between Oct 2019 and Mar 13, 2020, saying that "Covid is more contagious but less dangerous than SARS" On Feb 26 she said, "It is under control."

On Mar 19, Schuchat had been cleared by Homeland Security to be interviewed on Yahoo Finance radio. At the last minute, Mike Pence demanded that the interview be canceled. iirc Mar 19 was the day Fauci took over.

---
OR -- W Engdahl on Fauci: https://qoshe.com/new-eastern-outlook/f-william-engdahl/the-remarkable-doctor-a-fauci/70532207

Maybe all these no-names are "conspiracy theorists."
Maybe they're not.
Maybe Fauci is part of a "conspiracy" at the highest levels.


Tom

Glad more people are putting a spot light on this early occurrence of SARS-CoV-2 in France. MSM has convinced 99% of the Public that it all started in Wuhan in January. The sad truth is that were are still groping in the dark on this though the view in Plato's Cave is quite convincing.

Many complain that we do not have enough data. Well a quick check of how much is spent on Project Bio Shield, NAMRU and other BS should dispel the notion that there is no money for data collection. It is more likely that there is no willingness to collect data as was shown in Washington State with Dr Helen Chu. The excuses used in that case were kindergarten level as is the response to this Corona Theater.

PS: Came here thanks to a comment on Moon of Alabama

J

Coronavirus survivors banned from joining the military

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2020/05/06/coronavirus-survivors-banned-from-joining-the-military/

Fred

Artemesia,

You are lying by putting quotations after my name which I never wrote. Let us all know who is saying that about Madoff/Fauci, other than you. Perhaps you are just blowing smoke.

Yeah, Right

Fat Mike has begun to backpedal:
https://www.state.gov/secretary-michael-r-pompeo-with-joe-kernen-andrew-sorkin-and-rebecca-quick-of-cnbcs-squawk-box/

Pompeo: "Joe, look, you know this; one man’s direct is another man’s circumstantial. Here’s what we know for sure. We know for sure that this virus originated in Wuhan, China and that the disease emanated around the world and the Chinese Communist Party covered this up."

Annnnnnnnd... it's gone.

Read the entire transcript, and marvel how nowhere in it does Fat Mike address the claim that this virus escaped from that lab.

Not. Once.

He attempts to obfuscate by talking about SARS virus escaping from a Chinese lab (no idea what he is talking about there), but SARS happened in 2002.

I'm confident that the Land Whale has no evidence whatsoever to back up his initial claim that this escaped from a lab, and this backpedalling suggests to me that he has just now seen convincing evidence that rules out that lab.


Artemesia

My mistake, Fred, in formatting the comment. Apologies. There was no attempt on my part to "lie" by seemingly linking your name to a quote taken from the linked video.

HAD anyone viewed the linked video, they would have heard James T Harris on talkradio550 KFYI interview Dr. Moskovits, who worked for Fauci and tried to warn authorities of improprieties in his labs. Either Harris or Moskovits made the quoted statement.

HOWEVER, it is not possible for SST readers to view that interview because Youtube deleted it only a few hours after I listened to it, at 2:00 in the morning. Unfortunately, I did not take notes.

To be clear: Fred did NOT say that "Fauci is the Bernie Madoff of science;" that was the takeaway I recalled from Harris's interview of Dr. Moscovits. If I recall correctly, she was jailed for reasons unclear to me, involving her attempt to expose Fauci's misdeeds.
(I also recall that Moscovits said that wearing a mask is absurd, since it recirculates germs into one's own system rather than dispersing them relatively harmlessly. Francis Collins appeared before a Senate committee this morning and made a similar point: if he was seated 6' from the next nearest person, wearing a mask was redundant.)

Mr. Engdahl's review of Fauci's career does explore the ways in which Fauci has benefited and retained that long career, through left-than forthcoming methods.

Fred

Artemesia,

Thanks the clarification. There are plenty of videos being taken down by youtube, some are obviously egregious frauds, though I can't say about the one you mention.
Fauci, at a minimum, looks like an example of a "career professional" who is loyal to the organization rather than the goals of the organization. (Jerry "Pournelle's iron law of bureaucracy": In any bureaucracy, the people devoted to the benefit of the bureaucracy itself always get in control and those dedicated to the goals the bureaucracy is supposed to accomplish have less and less influence, and sometimes are eliminated entirely.) The red tape, whether the need for approval of hand cleaner, hydroxychloriquine, the testing thereof, the alternative drugs, waivers for masks and ventilators, etc. The alleged NIH whistleblower and his complaint are another example. He knows best, the rules can't be changed except by the mandarins, and so on. It's an attitude prevalent througout the federal government. A cleaning similar to that of the Augean stables is needed.

Yeah, Right

Artemesia, I would be very careful about placing any weight on anything that Judy Mikovits has to say.

Until a few days ago I had never heard of her, but even so it took less than 5 minutes with Dr Google to come across this:
https://www.chicagotribune.com/lifestyles/health/chi-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-paper-10032011-story.html

It really isn't a good idea for a documentary to open with an extended interview with an "expert" without anyone doing any due diligence on her.

But I could be charitable: her known predilection for making up data doesn't necessarily invalidate her accusations against Fauci.

After all, what would be her motive for doing so?

Anthony Fauci, Elected Fellow, American Association for the Advancement of Science.

Hmmmm. I wonder if the editors of Science would respond to accusations of "faked data" by turning to a distinguished Fellow of its parent organization and asking them to investigate?

I know I would....

A burning desire for revenge is a powerful motive, especially in someone who has a track-record of making s**t up.

Fred

Yeah right,

"making up data" which is not what the CDC is doing by counting every death where Covid 19 is present as being a death caused by the virus, that's just data manipulation. Fortunately for all of us climate change is settled sciene, those people would never make up data. But then we have 12 years! if we aren't all dead from the China virus first, which apparently is no longer killing people in its country of origin.

Yeah, Right

Fred, the CDC guidelines for filling in a death certificate is here:
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/vsrg/vsrg03-508.pdf

The money-shot is this:
"If COVID–19 played a role in the death, this condition should be specified on the death certificate. In many cases, it is likely that it will be the UCOD, as it can lead to various lifethreatening conditions, such as pneumonia and acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS). In these cases, COVID–19 should be reported on the lowest line used in Part I with the other conditions to which it gave rise listed on the lines above it."

(UCOD = underlying cause of death)

COVID-19 has to have "played a role in the death". It is not enough that it be merely present, which is what you are claiming.

It has to have Played. A. Role. In. The. Death.

Eric Newhill

Yeah, Right,
Stop pretending you know how the real world works.

"played a role in the death" is a doctor's opinion - a hurried busy doctor who has incentive to please the hospital administration who, in turn, is financially incentivized to label as many deaths as possible as being covid (they get paid more for that).

So a 90 year old has a heart attack and dies. He's tested and the virus is present. That will be labeled a covid death. I know this for a fact because I manage an analytical team at a Fortune 100 healthcare insurance company and we are looking at the data available to us, which is real time data on claims, etc and is superior to what the CDC has available to it. I see this with my own eyes. Are you going to call me a liar again?

And your relevant experience is what exactly?

Fred

Yeah,

Thank you comrade for linking to the CDC form. I don't see the link to the State of NY forms (or other states) for recording death, nor the directions from the State of NY (or other states) on how to perform an autopsy, which would prove cause of death, nor if autopsies can even be performed. But by all means please continue to provide the me with your fine University of Sydney based insights on the effectiveness of US Government "guidelines" for filling in a death certificate. You apparently don't understand the CDC is not recieving federal death certificates but numbers reported by states to the CDC. Maybe you have some special audit source that can verify the accuracy of all states reporting their information to the CDC.

Fred

Eric,

His relevant experience is being a professional troll spout procommunist agitprop, provoking commenters on blogs having some influence and discrediting people when possible.

Yeah, Right

Eric Newhill ""played a role in the death" is a doctor's opinion"

Indeed it is, thank you for telling me exactly the same thing as the CDC Guideline: "Similar to many other diagnoses, a cause-of-death statement is an informed medical opinion that should be based on sound medical judgment drawn from clinical training and experience, as well as knowledge of current disease states and local trends"

"So a 90 year old has a heart attack and dies. He's tested and the virus is present. That will be labeled a covid death."

No. The guideline states that Covid-19 is only to be added to Part 1 of the death certificate if it is the UCOD.

Covid-19 is not an UCOD of a cardiac arrest. Under the guidelines the place for Covid-19 would be in Part II.

"Are you going to call me a liar again?"

I am going to say the same thing I said last time: you are wrong.


Yeah, Right

Fred: "You apparently don't understand the CDC is not recieving federal death certificates but numbers reported by states to the CDC."

You know, this is what happens when Fred decides to tag-team Eric (which, apparently, is a common occurrence).

The last time Eric attempted to browbeat me on this topic his "proof" consisted of a link to this:
https://www.globalresearch.ca/hospitals-getting-paid-more-label-cause-death-coronavirus/5709720

It is an interview with Senator Scott Jensen, and that video begins with the interviewer quoting the CDC guidelines and then continues on that basis.

So do I consider those guidelines relevant to this disagreement?
Yeah, I do. And so does Eric. And so does Senator Scott Jensen.

You don't? Well, gosh, why should I care?

Eric Newhill

Yeah right,
How do you become a professional troll? Did you apply somewhere? Or were you recruited? Genuinely curious. Do you work for the CDC? China? Avaaz? Other?

Come on man, we have your number; might as well us something interesting for once. IMO, your journey into pro troll-hood would be very good reading.

turcopolier

All

I caution all of you against being drawn into ad hominem fights by trolls. I tolerate a few trolls here to provide someone to argue with but their goal is to disrupt. Remember that.

walrus

Re Trolls - more heat than light.

Yeah, Right

Colonel, the "ad hominem fights" are strictly one-way.

I try very hard to avoid resorting to personal insult, precisely because I know that is the quickest way to being banned.

I am not "drawing" anyone into "ad-hominem fights", Eric and Fred are doing that on their own volition, for their own ill-tempered reasons.

Yeah, Right

Eric: "Come on man, we have your number; might as well us something interesting for once. "

Sure thing:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/09/us/politics/coronavirus-death-toll-presidential-campaign.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/28/us/coronavirus-death-toll-total.html

https://www.fox9.com/news/minnesota-health-commissioner-criticizes-claims-of-inflated-covid-19-death-counts

Looks like someone has your number, Eric, big time.

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