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13 April 2020

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JoeC100

The following is a post, originally at Saker, by "Old Microbiologist" who posted on SST a while back on the anthrax attacks (he was deep in the middle of that mess) and I think some other relevant topics. It is clear he has a very deep and relevant US background and his take is "I have zero proof other than my gut feeling that this is a bioweapon", followed up by a description of his very deep, perhaps uniquely relevant background:

https://www.unz.com/article/was-coronavirus-a-biowarfare-attack-against-china/

This covers much possible "bio weapon" ground in depth and seems credible given his background.

I also recently read an apparently solid story (could not find it today) on the Wuhan lab suggesting that there a reasonable possibility that COVID could have been accidentally released there, given the lab's apparently well documented history of problems. This article was at a credible news site and I will continue to look for it.

jjc

Lieber's indictment does not state how much money he was paid by Chinese government. The numbers referred to were subject to being pro-rated based on how much time a recipient actually spent in China. Lieber is a very busy and accomplished scientist, prominent at Harvard, whose schedule over the past decade does not seem to reflect huge amounts of time in China. The government probably knows exactly what he earned through his Chinese contacts, but chose to publicize high speculative numbers instead.

He is simply charged with not specifically reporting that his Chinese affiliation was part of the latter's "Thousand Talents Plan". The requirement to specifically report such is a relatively new initiative, sparked by a Congressional investigation:
https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/2019-11-18%20PSI%20Staff%20Report%20-%20China's%20Talent%20Recruitment%20Plans.pdf

The Congressional Report flirts with, or edges towards, claiming basic scientific research as a national security priority, subject to restrictions. Lieber's alleged criminal offence was considered, a year earlier, something minor and subject to administrative remedy, not being hauled shackled into a courtroom. Lieber is one of America's most prominent scientists. His indictment is filled with innuendo and supposition, but very little substance. The same could be said about the Congressional Report. There is a danger of an overreaction fuelled by China-hawks and ambitious prosecutors.

JoeC100

Here is the Asia Times article on Wuhan Lab problems (found it!), suggesting accidental release from this lab may be plausible:

https://asiatimes.com/2020/04/inside-wuhans-secretive-national-biosafety-lab/

turcopolier

JJC

Good counter-propaganda.

turcopolier

A. Pols

"Not all deaths during the Great Leap were from starvation. Frank Dikötter estimates that at least 2.5 million people were beaten or tortured to death and one million to three million committed suicide.[106][2] He provides some illustrative examples. In Xinyang, where over a million died in 1960, 6–7% (around 67,000) of these were beaten to death by the militias. In Daoxian county, 10% of those who died had been "buried alive, clubbed to death or otherwise killed by party members and their militia." In Shimen county, around 13,500 died in 1960, of these 12% were "beaten or driven to their deaths."[107] In accounts documented by Yang Jisheng,[38][57] people were beaten or killed for rebelling against the government, reporting the real harvest numbers, for sounding alarm, for refusing to hand over what little food they had left, for trying to flee the famine area, for begging food or as little as stealing scraps or angering officials." wiki on Great Leap Forward

Fred

JoeC100,

"seems credible given his background." No, just no. So in addition to all his other illustrious achievements, like being a helicopter pilot, chemical warefare expert and resident of the Czech Republic where his retirement check goes so much farther than in the USA, "old microbiologits" wants to pin the China virus on the US by repeating the Chinese propaganda line about it steming from the World Miliary Games in Wuhan; per Oldmircobiologist: "I was a participant in several CISM competitions in Europe for skiing " having much expertise therein. Helicopter pilot, chem warfare expert, DHS consultant, expat retiree living high on the hog in Europe, and now, world class military games skier! Oh, and it's America's fault. He's catching up to 007 on skills. I should put him in touch with 00 bear and they can trade spy stories.

BillWade

Smithfield, a company purchased by the Chinese a few years back, is shutting down their largest meat processing plant here.

Notwithstanding the President's touting our agricultural sales to China, I think it's time we cut all trade with them. Of course there's going to be needs to fill, let Americans fill them going forward.

I agree with Fred excepting the expelling of all Chinese citizens, many of them are here legitimately and prefer our way of life. The rest can go for sure.

Upstater

Larry, why would Zaosong Zheng employ such amature tradecraft to smuggle out biowarfare pathogens in a sock, in checked baggage? Why would communication be so blatantly insecure? If he was under direction from his senior military officers, wouldn't there be more professionalism present in such an operation?

There is nothing remotely that provides plausible deniability here. Nothing but a smoking gun.

Fred

Bill,

Feel free to expound on your extreme vetting plan for non-US citizens.

h

Larry - here's a vid by The Epoch Times on what may be the origins of the Wuhan Coronavirus. It's well done and I'm certain you'll know most of the folks who are interviewed.

Tracking Down the Origin of Wuhan Coronavirus - https://www.theepochtimes.com/coronavirusfilm/

Great post. I hope both you and the good Col continue to help shed light on this unfolding tragedy.

turcopolier

Upstater

So, your position is that the FBI has lied about finding the microbes so poorly hidden? It is true that some FBI people acted as part of a political conspiracy against Trump, but that does not mean that the field people of the FBI are less than competent. They are excellent investigators.

But, I have news for you. China's spies have never shown much concern with issues of fine "tradecraft" Just as the Israelis are so inept as to telephone Iranian Jews acting for them by commercial telephone thereby causing their arrest, the Chinese have a multitude of government groups and semi-government groups conducting intelligence collection, covert action ops and similar activities with a minimum regard for "tradecraft.

As for Chinese casualties in Wuhan, IMO the level of losses in Wuhan would have been acceptable to the CCP for the purpose of ruining the US and other non-Communist states. You do remember that Beijing and Shanghai were not subjected to "mitigation?" Why do you think that was so?

Should we still trade with Chinese businesses? Yes. We need to sell them agro-business products and they need to buy them.

turcopolier

jjc

Benedict Arnold had a great reputation until he was found out.

DG

Hi only my second post here but needs to be asked if LJ's kabuki is proved.

So why has the US just increased its order for ppe from China? is any of the following disputed?

'It's not just EU companies. The vast majority of foreign companies in the country have also resumed operations in recent weeks as the domestic epidemic waned. As of April 7, nearly 72 percent of the 8,776 major foreign-funded enterprises had resumed more than 70 percent of their operations in China, up five percentage points from the previous week, the Chinese Ministry of Commerce (MOFCOM) said on Thursday.
https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1185497.shtml
...
9:46 pm April 11
SoftBank founder Masayoshi Son said Sat that SoftBank and China's BYD reached an agreement to set up a mask production line for the production of 300m masks a month, including 100m N95 masks & 200m surgical masks, and start non-profit selling in Japan in May: report

3:18 pm April 11
US FDA issues emergency authorization for 8 mask manufacturers as of Wed, and within two days, the number was updated Fri to a total of 32, all are Chinese suppliers or manufacturers in China, showing the gap in demand for masks in the US has become larger.

7:00 pm April 10
From March 1 to April 4, China exported 10.2 billion yuan ($1.45 billion) worth of epidemic prevention supplies, including 3.86 billion masks, 37.52 million pieces of protective clothing, and 16,000 ventilators: Customs 

6:46 pm April 10
In China, five vaccines are being developed simultaneously. The fast one is adenoviral vector vaccine, which has been delivered to human body test. The fully inactivate vaccines would also be soon delivered but it still needs 1-2 year It observation: top medical expert'
...
Is Global Times lying?

walrus

Regarding Zheng, The simplest hypothesis is that he was trying to make money, not bio weapons. He is a urogenital cancer researcher working on DNA and RNA approaches potentially leading, I think, to a monoclonal antibody(MaB) treatment based on certain DNA or RNA markers. Like JJackson, I believe that DNA/RNA was in those vials.

What readers may not know is that access to such materials is commercially highly sensitive because the discovery or development of a MaB would be potentially worth many millions of dollars to Zheng personally as it would be worth hundreds of millions to a pharma company.

Transfers of such research are governed by a Materials Transfer Agreement that would be negotiated between Harvard and the Chinese University which covers ownership of IP and revenue sharing between the universities in the event that a commercial product eventuates. Sometimes three or more universities are parties to such agreements because researchers move from lab to lab. In America the foundation of such dealings is provided by the Bayh - Dole Act. I have dealt with such matters myself.

Zheng was trying to get away without a transfer agreement - stealing IP. This is about money, not weapons.

Furthermore, research funds for Lieber would come from dozens of sources. Why even the Wuhan lab had American funds! It gets quite complicated to account for all of it. I would not be surprised if Lieber was simply confused.

I think like JJackson, that there is a simpler explanation for C19 than a Chinese conspiracy.

I also observed in my March 6 post on SST, that to researchers in the field, the Chinese appeared utterly sincere.

BillWade

Well Fred, geez. If they are Green card holders and have been good residents so far, they've been vetted. If they are asylum seekers (religious/political) they are in a process of vetting now, Tourist visas - they expire and these folks usually leave. We can't vet illegals cause, well they're illegals and in hiding in some respect. Those here on student/work visas - just tell them to leave asap and accept the repercussions from the PRC. And, I'm ok with the repercussions. The sooner the CCP falls, the better.

Jack

Larry

Thank you for this note!

I hope the US leadership (both political and business) recognize soon enough that the totalitarian CCP is an enemy.

For decades for a variety of reasons but none more than personal wealth benefits our business and political elites have dismantled and shipped to China our industrial base. Will these people be held to account for creating such a disastrous national security situation? We now find out that 80% of the active pharmaceutical ingredients in our pharmaceutical products are manufactured in China. What about critical parts in our military hardware? Such a gigantic vulnerability to locate our critical needs in an enemy state. Has this kinda stupidity ever occurred in history?

My question is are there folks in our government leadership who will finally take action for this bio-weapon attack on our soil by the CCP? What will our Reality TV POTUS do when it is clear that the CCP is at war with the United States?

Deap

turnopolierr: Yes, there was a Dixie Station during the Vietnam war - coming from one I know well who was stationed at Yankee Station. Dixie Station was off the coast of South Vietnam, where as Yankee Station was closer to Haiphong. Obviously named before today's PC.

turcopolier

jack

He already knows that. Do you want a shooting war with China.

turcopolier

walrus
"to researchers in the field, the Chinese appeared utterly sincere." A joke? Researchers believed them "sincere?" Not a conspiracy, a Chinese covert war against the West and particularly America. This was just one aspect of that war.

turcopolier

DG

Trade is necessary, even with one's enemies.

Fred

Jack,
What will the Reality Democrats do, other than increase government power like they are doing in all states they holder governorship in? What's the Pelosi - Schumer plan, other than another investigation of Trump?

Jack

Sir

What is the right response, if any?

I’m not for a shooting war. But it seems we are at war, if as it appears the CCP attacked us with a bio-weapon.

The Twisted Genius

Larry,

I’m in 100% agreement with you that “China is engaged in a massive intelligence war on our country.” They have been doing this for 25 years that I have witnessed. I’ve seen then hack into our installations and defense contractors to steal our technology, including the complete files on the F-35. There was no finesse or fancy tradecraft. It was more like Viking raids on coastal monasteries. In one instance they took so much date so fast that they crashed the installation’s network. To aid their development of advanced artificial intelligence, they damn near cornered the world market in expertise in geometric algebra. In the last few years our DOJ has started issuing indictments over some of these hacks.

I’ve also witnessed Russia’s intelligence war on our country. For the longest time Russian hacking was characterized by finesse, good tradecraft and plausible deniability. Nevertheless, they stole a lot. I’ve also seen them attack our classified networks. In the last decade, they dropped the finesse and plausible deniability, boldly attacking our Pentagon and State Department. I’ve seen their information operations in Georgia and the Baltics. Extending those information operations to the US starting with the 2016 election cycle was just a natural progression. I know we disagree here, but the FBI and the IC have equally substantial CI operations against Russian targets as they do against Chinese targets.

I also disagree with your conviction that covid-19 is a deliberate attack on the US and the West by the Chinese government. Those indictments of Chinese intelligence officers deal with cancer research and IT research. Your assertion that one of those vials being smuggled out of that Boston medical center contained covid-19 would implicate that medical center as the developer of the virus. If that was the case, it is the US that’s the villain in all this. I don’t believe that either. Covid-19 is much more likely to be an example of viral evolution. Genetic research of the virus will eventually provide the answer of its origin just as it’s providing answers to our own origins.

jim ticehurst

The Timing ... and Results...are all Coinidence...Too Bad We have gone from the Year of the RAT...To The Year of the BAT...I think that will bring The Land of the Dragon..very Bad Luck..

turcopolier

jack

Screw them on the covert action front while continuing to trade with them

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