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05 April 2020

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Crimson King

New new study found the reason for the effectiveness of chloroquine:
https://chemrxiv.org/articles/COVID-19_Disease_ORF8_and_Surface_Glycoprotein_Inhibit_Heme_Metabolism_by_Binding_to_Porphyrin/11938173
In short, the SARS-CoV-2 virus has three protein configurations on its outside which attack hemoglobine, dissolving the iron ion from the molecule. The hemoglobin looses the ability to bind oxygen and CO2 without the iron, thus cannot transport it anymore (the effect of hydocyanic acid or carbonmonoxide, but both block the binding location, they do not destroy it). As a consequence, the O2 load in the blood decreases dangerously even if the lungs still are working. Chloroquine seems to cover the hemoglobine binding location, so the virus cannot attack it anymore. Against the malaria parasite, the coverage by chloroquine seems to block the parasite from consuming proteins from the blood cells which it needs for reproduction.
Strange collection of features: The unique furine cleavage site (known from other, completely different highly contagious flu viruses), the CD147 docking site (known only from the dangerous Coxsakie virus and expressed strongly by cancer cells), the GRP78 docking site (expressed by cells under stress) and the attack on hemoglobine, five distinctive pathways to attack cells and cause damage. All not found in any other corona virus genome...

Curtis Fromke

I think the story is the use of vitamin C. MD's in the US poo poo vitamin C, but it seems that the Chinese ordered up 50 tons of it. Check out Orthomolecular.com. Check out Bill Gates and the development of a vaccine which if successful would be a great money maker. (Ted Talk I think.

turcopolier

Crimson King

I took chloroquine for two years and I am still here.

Jim Henely

Curtis Fromke

The Chinese have been relying on high-dose Vitamin C treatment to combat the virus. Although they have yet to publish any results, Orthomolecular.com has years of Vitamin C research available on their website. Their most recent post, dated April 4th is on the efficacy of sulforaphane's anti-viral effects and lung protective properties.

http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v16n22.shtml

Who knew our mothers were correct when they admonished us to "eat our broccoli.

Leith

A VFW acquaintance and former Navy Corpsman told me that hydroxychloroquine have less toxicity than the chloroquine-phosphate he used to hand out in Nam. However he says that either one can damage the retina in high doses if used long term.

robt willmann

Didier Raoult, a scientist in France, has done work on hydroxychloroquine for the treatment of COVID-19.

A paper from mid-March he was involved in--

https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/hydroxychloroquine-and-azithromycin-as-a-treatment-of-covid-19/

https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Hydroxychloroquine_final_DOI_IJAA.pdf

A video of him on the issue (in English)--

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydcrROJFEU0

A video from 16 March 2020 of a talk by him on the issue (in French)--

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4J8kydOvbc

The slides from the talk (4.5 megabytes in size)--

https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/COVID-19.pdf

Deap

How many gin and tonics make a therapeutic dose of quinine? BTW: Trust nothing that comes from China.

Upstate NY'er

Not gonna happen here.
Drs' Fauci and Birx are enjoying their "15 days of fame" power trip and the FDA is still trying to see if penicillin is really safe.
Next, they'll certify aspirin.

just another old guy

I note that the link posted by CK is not actual results of research into whether chloroquine is effective regarding its use against covid-19 but rather an analysis of physical functions which 'suggests' that it might be. Actual research is required to prove the point.

Conversely there is a new research report on the effectiveness of chloroquine on treating those with severe symptoms from covid-19 just published and the conclusion for that set of patients is that it has 'No Evidence of Rapid Antiviral Clearance or Clinical Benefit ..."

I have read articles from Dr's and PhD experts who postulate both ways on this issue. Actual testing will be required to answer this and this first result is not optimistic at least in the case of severe symptoms.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0399077X20300858

J

Colonel

IMO an interesting twist, seems WHO Director
Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus is a violent Ethiopian Communist who is said should be tried for crimes against humanity. He also apparently has no medical background. So how did a violent Communist with no medical background become The U.N. World Health Organization head honcho?

Seems Bill Gates was/is one of his primary promoters.

https://www.roughestimate.org/roughestimate/the-crimes-of-tedros-adhanom

J

CDC is cooking the books on COVID deaths. CDC Guidelines from March 24
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/coronavirus/Alert-2-New-ICD-code-introduced-for-COVID-19-deaths.pdf
Coronavirus is based on a CDC coding system that results in COVID-19 being the underlying cause more often than not.

It's like the CDC is intentionally trying to tank the whole U.S. economy.

There needs to be some serious housecleaning taken at the CDC ASAP!

BillWade

Ivermectin is a de-wormer for cats, dogs, horses, and livestock. It is available from Amazon and also found at farm supply stores (I'm not saying to order some, just offering up some hope for the future). It's showing promise for a quick cure of Covid19. There are some FDA recommendations for human use but it is not yet recommended for use against Covid19.

J is right, this Tedros guy was on the USA terrorist watch list back in the 90s, wondering if Gates didn't somehow get him rehabilitated?

It was encouraging to hear the President yesterday repeatedly saying "we have to get back to work, sooner rather than later".

J

Deap,

About 100 high-ball glasses is a starter dose. Be sure to use Beefeater brand IMO. Quality is everything.

Terence Gore

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXHikITwlng

Bill Gates current interview with Mike Wallace. Starts with clip from 2015 at Ted talk with corona virus image in background.

In current interview predicts less deaths no rebound but recommends quarantine, more testing at national level,

at 7:45 says "This is all very ad hoc because we never did a full blown simulation there were a few (clears his throat) few things done but it's not like war where we do war games all the time"

Ken Roberts

Some perspective on US death statistics and estimates, which I find oddly reassuring and helps me avoid panic emotional responses. I will share the results with the committee without going into details. Disclaimer: I'm not in the health care field: rather computers, math and physics.

US population 330m, US deaths (all causes) 2.8m in 2017 and 2018. Take that as the norm. Estimate COVID-19 infections presently 6 million, but growing to about 220m thru 2020. Assume infection fatality rate 0.66 pct. That 0.66 pct figure is from a study published in Lancet 30-March, article by Verity, et al (open source). However, to be on pessimistic side, assume lung damage in other severe or critical cases, causing about 3 pct IFR over 2020-2024. Cause of death attribution in the latter cases may be various -- eg pulmonary, heart -- but will show up in all-causes death stats of following years. Some deaths due to increased stress of having had COVID will occur among those who would have died anyway in 2020-2024, so attribute only half the COVID-related increaed mortality to all-causes deaths.

Bottom line: Anticipate 0.7m additional deaths in each of 2020 thru 2024. A 25 percent increase over present deaths. In perspective, if one might lose four friends in a year, now it might be five friends in consequence of 2020's epidemic, as its effects reverberate thru the population next five years.

It is sad, yes, but we are not "doomed". You here are tough minded people, used to accepting risk, uncertain outcomes, and bad shit happens to good folks as well as antagonists.

Take care, and best wishes.
kr

Fred

Terence,

Bill's got a vacine in the pipeline his tax exempt organization will put out at our expense so we have to wait months until it is ready, and while he does not support voter id he does support Covid19 id and geotracking so we know where you are. Windows97 worked better than the CDC/FDA/health care bureaucracy and I would never take his vacine until he and every blood relative he has lets me administer it to them from the same vial they want me innoculated from.

steve

Study group is interesting as it is pretty young (mean age about 44) and more female than male, not what is generally seen. We are using it along with Z-PAck, zinc,, Vit C, steroids, epoprostenol, and all the other stuff being written about except recovered pt plasma. Not sure we are seeing any effect on our sickest pts in the ICU. Nothing is acting like PCN did or the protease inhibitors did when first released and it was clear they made a huge difference. That said, if it only works on mild cases it could still help d/c pts sooner and relieve bed crunch.

Steve

Terence Gore

Fred

I don't know what is going on.

I think the motivator in the belief that one can make the world a better place is a very strong one.

I hope there are very few deaths and the economy recovers quickly

Jose

Fire the entire CDC, FDA, and NIH bureaucracy and outsource the work to the Taiwanese Ministry of Health .

1. The Ministry has done a better job than out bureaucracies.

2. It's what the Globalist want (or did I get the wrong China) plus the Dems get more H1A Visas.

3. Bill Gates, who cares windows sucks.

4. Just hope Acosta is the one that declares Trump Reelected.

JerseyJeffersonian

To add to the discussion of how the CDC's rules on assigning primary causation to coronavirus for deaths (and analagously, how other nationsv medical Grey Eminences also handle this issue), regardless of the presence of underlying co-morbidities, I drop this link here. It is a quite well written comment from the poster, The Right Doctor, an older, senior physician who explains the "cause of death" assignment process, and discusses past practices, and what has changed in this with the advent of CoVID-19. Very illuminating.

http://thezman.com/wordpress/?p=20188#comment-157790

The books are being cooked, not only in this way, but also by "lieing with statistics" through not having a reliable means of understanding the overall infection rate, nor the mechanisms of infection. W

Without a handle on the overall infection rate in the population, it is child's play to exaggerate the lethality by focusing solely on the death rate among those groups with co-morbidities, the significance of which is itself a moving, anecdotal target absent focused study.

Here is a report of a study to address those issues being implemented in Germany. Sorry, the link is from The Guardian (I brandish a crucifix in one hand, and fondle my necklace of heads of garlic with the other...), but it is still valuable in increasing understanding of what we don't know, but should in order to make optimal policy choices.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/31/virologists-to-turn-germany-worst-hit-district-into-coronavirus-laboratory

JJackson

Anyone who has read my posts will know I do not think chloroquine or remdisivir are going to be more than marginally helpful however there is a ray of hope. Only anecdotal at present but trialed in a NY ICU and with unmistakable benefits. It uses a course of steroids given to patients fairly early in oxygen support and if they continue to worsen then an IL6 blocker is used to dampen neutrophil damage. Steroids are a common treatment for flu patients with pneumonia and were tried early on in China but quickly stopped as it made matters worse. It seems to suppress the immune response if given too early, or for too long, but in later stage disease the adaptive immune response is already running and is now over active and damping down helps reduce the cell damage. The alveoli epithelium damage is caused by the virus, the immune cells attempts to kill the virus and the hosts attempts to repair the damage.

Fred

JJackson,

"It uses a course of steroids given to patients fairly early..."

There are also public reports that steroids make this worse. See the Lancet:
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30317-2/fulltext

walrus

Four general points.

1. The hysteria about a “health ID card” or whatever people call it is overblown. International travelers used to carry exactly that - a yellow health certificate that listed all your immunizations - which used (circa 1956) to be compulsory for international travel (typhoid, cholera, smallpox and perhaps yellow fever). We carried them with our passports. They are nothing new. We could easily roll out an App, like China has, that indicates your health status and use it to control the winding back of the lockdown.

2. The use of social distancing is 500 years old. The idea that it’s something dreamed by leftist globalists is BS.

3. The rules and practices for ship quarantine are also at least 200 years old and the word itself comes from the fourteenth century Venetian word for forty days - the quarantine period they observed back then. So the hoohaa we are getting from the likes of Carnival lines (who could have known, etc.) is BS.

4. Vaccines don’t make money for anyone. That is because they are cheap to produce and most doses will be administered for free by public health agencies to poor people in third world countries for diseases such as typhoid, Cholera, TB, etc. The result of that situation is that worldwide there are relatively few manufacturers. It’s not a sexy, high margin business at all. From memory, tests are similarly not a high margin business. The bulk of pharmaceutical investment goes into treatments for diseases and conditions of rich western lifestyles. That is where the money is. That is also why you suddenly find yourself dependent on Chinese and Indian suppliers for stuff such as Chloroquine.

My conclusion is that the idea that Bill Gates or anyone else would see vaccine development as an attractive investment is ludicrous.

turcopolier

Amir

You wrote to challenge my right to speak because my qualification is in organizing artillery barrages and the like. A trivial argument. I am a globally recognized authority in strategic intelligence analysis of human behavior with an emphasis in the Islamic Culture Continent. I have learned that technical "experts" are coddled vanity filled creatures who would rather be in charge than be right.

steve

JJackson- Which NYC hospital? We are in contact with a number of them and our protocols have been shaped by what they are doing, plus what the guys in Washington did. If this is one we dont talk to would like to call them.

We use moderate dose steroids. Pulmonary docs think it helps. Everyone else not so much. Need a study. (The Lancet study just looks at past experience with other corona viruses.)

Steve

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