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16 April 2020

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optimax

Smithfield foods, where 700 of its 32,000 workers have tested positive for covid-19, is a wholly owned subsidiary of WH Group of China. It was sold to Sun of China in 2013 and supplies about 5% of US pork. South Dakota had low a positive virus count until the the explosion at the Sioux Falls plant and its spread into the population of Minnehaha County, where it's located. Of the 1311 positives in SD, 1065 are in Minnehaha.

I've been thinking it was an accidental release from a Chinese bio lab, but I am becoming suspicious--highly suspicious.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smithfield_Foods

https://doh.sd.gov/news/coronavirus.aspx

I've been reading about the Bolshevik revolution. Xi is as ruthless a Marxist as Lenin was, he spouts the same party line. Too bad, I like the Chinese people, most all Lao Tzu.

likbez

The real issue is the probability that the virus escaped from one of Wuhan labs due to the generally lax level of biosecurity (most experiments with coronaviruses were conducted on BCL-2 level instead of BCL-4 level) and serious problems with biosecurity in Wuhan BCL-4 lab as were identified by the USA inspection.

The completing hypothesis is that it was introduced during Wuhan military games and originated in the USA: type A of SARC-Cov-2 is the most frequently identified strain among HIV-infected patients in the United States and Australia and in not common in china. It probably predates China Wuhan strain (B strain )

Peddling "slow Chinese response" hypothesis just suggests the incompetence of the author: in reality they recognized this new type of pneumonia and informed the world in several weeks timeframe. Which for a new virus and a huge bureaucratic monster which is the Chinese state is not a bad timing.

Bill H

Off topic, but I hope you will indulge me for reference to a piece on NBC News that I enjoyed. A British WW2 veteran decided to do "laps" around his garden at age 99 (he'll be 100 next month) to raise money for Covid19 patients. He has raised $15 million so far.

The best part is the young soldiers standing to and saluting the old man as he walked. Warmed my heart. I have no doubt they had an abundance of volunteers for that detail. This is what the brotherhood of the military is all about.

walrus

Assuming Col. Lang’s thesis is correct, what will the CCP do now? I believe President Trump when he states that the economy will recover faster and better than anyone expects.

What happens when Xi discovers his ploy has failed, as it will? My guess is that there will be a bloodbath in the CCP. Xi might try and cover his tracks by eliminating links in the chain leading to himself. A threatened Politburo might try to preempt Xi by acting first. Might we hear rumours?

The Chinese don’t like losers. They will turn on the CCP in a heartbeat.

Keith Harbaugh

Concerning the U.S. (over) reaction, the following is definitely worth considering:
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/04/16/the-shutdown-backlash-is-coming-soonwith-a-vengeance-189809
by John F. Harris, Politico, 2020-04-16

Ulenspiegel

The WHO provided validated working test kits on 16th of January.

Even if I am not happy with the Chinese policy overall, the main problem in most advanced western countries was and still is that the response of the governments are often poor:

1) Not implementing a coherent communication strategy. It does not make sense when one minister tells that the virus situation is an real issue and another minister tell you at the same time that everything is not so bad.

2) Downplaying the infection numbers for domestical political reasons. Complete lack of understanding of an exponential function or more precise the combination of an virus operating on an exponential function, while the own resources are more or less a constant.

3) Too late start of testing, be it a result of faulty administrative structures, rooky mistakes during test kit developement or combination of both.

Fighting a virus is like warfare on the operational level, you start with incomplete information, but have to make important decisions, time is a very important resource, lost time is almost impossible to regain.

Marc b.
Peter M
Serge

Coronavirus survivors say they fear long-term effects
https://nypost.com/2020/04/17/my-lungs-are-on-fire-coronavirus-survivors-say-they-fear-long-term-effects/

Diana Croissant

I can't argue any of the details in terms of numbers, dates, or sequence of events.

All I know is that communism is an extremely flawed political system because of its negative view of humanity. It will always be foiled because of Marx's system of dividing humans into "types." The "intelligentsia," the "vanguard," the "useful idiots." ETC. (And for you who still admire Obama, papers discovered in his Denver offices during his run for the Presidency used the term "useful idiots" to describe the eager young people coming in to volunteer for his campaign.

That is why communist countries don't like Christian or other religious beliefs. They deal with individual people as more than automatons to be used.

Of Course The government of China and its leader must be brought to account for their crimes against the people of the world. Usually, however, that happens when the "useful idiots" finally have had enough and rise up.

We now see that in regard to some of our own politicians who have liked the powers they have been given in regard to supposedly protecting us from the virus. Michigan is an example right now. I believe more small uprisings will occur as people just decide to take control of their own lives again when they realize that the supposed experts are just making things up in regard to how we need to protect ourselves from the virus..

I learned at an early age to hate communism in the form of the Bolsheviks. My ethnic group's farms were confiscated for factory farming and communal farming experiments which ultimately resulted in the Holdomor Famine. The New York Times reporter sent to investigate never left Moscow and took the word of the Communist leaders who claimed it was not happening. Millions died.

Xi Jimping cares nothing about his own "useful idiots" or for the everyday people of the world. The everyday people of the world--including those in China--will soon have enough of him and his intelligentsia and his vanguard.

Our problem in the U.S. is now the major job we have to overturn the "Augean Stables" of the current U.S. educational system.

J

Colonel,

Blink, blink, it appears that a CCP carrier task force theoretically could be headed on a course for our U.S. western coastal area.

The Liaonig carrier strike group sailed through the Miyako Strait and past Taiwan over the weekend. And it's now in the Pacific. The Liaonig's captain of the boat is Liu Zhe, a Rear Admiral.

The Asia times in 2018 reported that our CIA has it's plans thanks to the Chinese Ship Building Industry General Manager passing on the ship's technical data to the Agency. :)

The Liaoning strike group consists of 6 ships including the carrier, and again they are now in the Pacific.

With our carrier groups Roosevelt and Reagan personnel sidelined with the CCP virus, it could prove interesting if the Liaoning strike group does head for our western coastal area.

Ulenspiegel

"The real issue is the probability that the virus escaped from one of Wuhan labs due to the generally lax level of biosecurity "

As the RNA sequence is not very similar to known bat or human corona viruses, this hypothesis is scientific BS.

Ursa Maior

J

Risking your only and training carrier is a very unwise move.

likbez

@Ulenspiegel | 17 April 2020 at 07:18 AM


Fighting a virus is like warfare on the operational level, you start with incomplete information, but have to make important decisions, time is a very important resource, lost time is almost impossible to regain.

Very true. But we should not forget the role of Pelosi in this mess: Trump administration was partially paralyzed in January by impeachment proceedings. She acted like the fifth column in this respect.

Another factor was that any real measures against the virus were a huge blow to the neoliberal globalization and the USA as the central force that pushed neoliberal globalization was vary to implement them.

IMHO, Trump demonstrated some level of courage by closing flights from China on Jan 31. I guess pressure to postpone this measure further was tremendous. But they missed the time, and it was too late.


3) Too late start of testing, be it a result of faulty administrative structures, rooky mistakes during test kit development, or a combination of both.

That's true, and the CDC needs to be investigated for this blunder. But also implementing social distancing measures and the obligatory wearing of masks in large cities was completely botched.

Retired persons can be quarantined without a major blow to the economy. And that should have been done first. The nursing homes are starkly vulnerable to the coronavirus. It was clear from the beginning. That means that the medical personnel in them need to be provided with full protection gear and isolated with patients. That was not done. On the contrary, they became hotspots that spread the disease.

Treatment of medical personnel, who along with patients in nursing homes are the most vulnerable category, was abysmal. No free hotel stay (for those without children), no special transportation and free meals were provided for them. Even basic protection equipment was absent in home hospitals until late March.

The USA did not have strategic storage of masks and, which is more important, equipment to make them and materials from which they are made. That was a big blunder for which previous administrations also share responsibility.

Pentagon treatment of the USS Theodor Roosevelt epidemic was worse than incompetent because clearly, this was just the tip of the iceberg. Instead of looking into the core problem, they decided to find a scapegoat, Why they did not react as soon as problems on Diamond Princess surfaces are unclear to me. They failed even to provide masks. That's simply incredible. I think a bunch of perfumed princes of Pentagon needs to be fired. I wonder what is the situation on submarines.

stueeeeeeeee

Walrus

The Chinese will turn on the CCP? How? The CCP has created with the help of our tech giants the beginnings of an Orwellian state. What little individualism that may exist in Chinese society will be recognized and squashed without hesitation.

This virus is bioengineered. Nothing else explains the degree by which countries have shutdown their economies. Whether the Chinese intentionally or mistakenly unleashed doesn't matter, because their malicious actions (allowing potentially infected to travel, destroying research, censuring scientists...) afterwards cannot be denied. They knew and allowed it to spread; and thereby, even if you believed it to be a mere accident, weaponized it.

What is the next move for the CCP? Wait and see. Sacrificing a million of its citizens is nothing to the CCP, but would be devastating to us. We are already fractured politically and demographically...and the Chinese are well of it. Trump may lose the election even though he has managed the crisis reasonably well. Ridding Trump would be major victory for the CCP.

tedrichard

at the end of the day it does not matter where or how the virus originated and first became public. thats all in the rear view mirror. throwing stones or getting lawyers solve nothing.

the crime against humanity is not the virus but the response to what hindsight will demonstrate to be no more worrisome than seasonal flu.

only a nation bent on suicide shuts down their entire economy for a virus with a death rate in the 1% range and even that is predicated largely on age and pre existing conditions.

in other words the old and the already quite sick.

i am 71 and so have no axe to grind against us old folks.

PRC90

J, it will be interesting to see if the Liaoning strike group does, or does not, leave a trail of burials at sea.

ancientarcher

I see a lot of commentators who claim that "it doesn't matter where or how the virus originated". The same people claim that they have no axe to grind and implore us to forget the source of the virus and furthermore ask us to focus on the US govt's shortcomings.

These people are Chinese stooges. No one else will FORGET how and where it all started. It is only in the interests of the CCP that the general public forgets where the epidemic started and thereby figure out where the blame lies. These people only want us to focus on the shortcomings of the Western democracies.

May such posters be banned everywhere!

If there is no reckoning for China and the CCP after all this is over, rest assured - all trust on the Western political/commercial leadership will go into the toilet and be flushed away.

J

Something to contemplate are both long-range and short-term CCP PLA strategies concerning our Carriers and their strike fleets.

Quote
"What the United States fears the most is taking casualties. The loss of one super carrier would cost the lives of 5000 service men and women. Sinking two would double that toll. We'll see how frightened America is."
Unquote
CCP PLA Rear Admiral Lou Yuan at the 2018 Military Industrial Summit 12/20/18 cited by Australia’s news.com

Now taking into context what a non-combat experienced think-tank wonk who's admiralty title is in name only, it shows those CCP armchair admirals and generals for what their aggressive with no real-world experience mindsets are. What would be the road of strategy undertaken by the CCP higher leadership? Would they listen to their arm-chair wonks like Yuan, or would they listen to their real military leadership and what they advocate?

As of Friday the Pentagon said that nearly 5000 personnel are infected with the CCP virus. That's equivalent to one carrier so-to-speak. This past Monday the Theodore Roosevelt had it's first causality of the CCP virus with the death of 41 year old CPO Charles Robert Thacker Jr who passed away at the Guam hospital. Two service personnel that includes CPO Thacker Jr. are the current CCP virus casualties listed by the Pentagon.

A pandemic weapon like the CCP virus aimed at carrier personnel at one of their port-calls could accomplish what would require several torpedoes to accomplish. Especially if a CCP op is underway.

On that note CJCS Gen. Milley has stated Tuesday that the department aimed to improve its testing capacity from about 8,700 test per day to about 65,000 within 45 days, citing the need to ensure asymptomatic carriers were not spreading the virus unknowingly within their units. The Pentagon especially wants to ensure it is regularly testing members of its top-tier special operations units and others responsible for its nuclear capabilities.


USFK stated that an American contractor who works at Camp Humphreys has been banned from all U.S. bases in South Korea for two years for violating quarantine orders by visiting base shopping facilities. The contractor, who was not otherwise identified, had been instructed to go into quarantine after having direct contact with a co-worker who had tested positive for the virus. The individual chose to non-comply with the quarantine directive and visited the PX and the commissary. At least six soldiers also have received nonjudicial punishment under Article 15 of the UCMJ for going to bars off-base or otherwise violating restrictions on nonessential movement off-base, according to the 8th Army. Two civilians also were barred from Sasebo Naval Base, Japan, after security found them in an off-base bar in violation of similar restrictions set by the Navy.

Several uniformed personnel have lost rank and pay for violating their respective quarantine restrictions, which indicates the seriousness that the Pentagon views this situation.

The Navy's CNO Adm. Mike Gilday will soon decide the fate of whether Navy Capt. Brett Crozier stepped out of line when he went around his chain of command and sent an email pushing for action to stem the outbreak. The CNO's review won't be limited to Crozier. It will also look at the command climate on the ship and higher up within the Pacific-based fleet, to determine if there are broader leadership problems. The Navy's CNO has a lot on his plate to consider

BilWade

J, interesting stuff, thanks.

I'm hoping we can make some real gains in greater SE Asia. Thailand had 26,000 visitors from the Wuhan area during the Chinese New Year period, not to mention 10s of thousands more from other Chinese areas. The initial virus outbreak there was inconsequential and no real measures were taken to stop it's spread. Now, they are in the thick of it with a total lock-down, including a complete ban of alcohol sales. Thais were/are blaming "falangs" for the second spread due to their cultural reluctance to wear face masks, falangs are now wearing them. It is imperative that SEAsians know the facts about the CCP virus and if we can get that across to them, we can hopefully lessen the growing Chinese influence there to next to nothing.

I can't think of anyway this Capt Crozier can be excused for his gross mishandling of what is certainly highly classified info.

Ulenspiegel

stueeeeeeeee wrote: "This virus is bioengineered. Nothing else explains the degree by which countries have shutdown their economies. "

That is BS which does not pass simple smell tests: If the virus is bioengineered it would be derived form known RNA sequences (otherwise you would not get functional proteins) and the DNA, from which the RNA is derived, would contain many cleavage sites for common restriction enzymes.

J

stueeeeeeeee,

Walrus needs to understand (from the Terminator Movie) that the 'Sky-net' system does exist. Sky-net is the CCP virtual dragnet monitoring system that monitors every mainland and globally residing citizen. Within their CCP Sky-net system are programmed 'social values', in other words does the individual pose a threat to the CCP (not China, but to the CCP). If they're deemed a threat, they are denied travel to neighboring towns and provinces as well as jet and train travel, international travel, and life improving employment opportunities. In other words they are imprisoned, the only difference is that the CCP isn't paying for their food and lodging, that the CCP grudgingly does within their prisons.

Those you see today in U.S. Universities are those whom the CCP considers a 'solid citizen' (those who are compliant with CCP directives). Of course within those 'solid citizens' are their PLA operatives and their MSS 中华人民共和国国家安全部 Intelligence and Sabotage operatives posing both as researchers and student researchers. That makes life interesting for all our CI personnel working day and night to try their best to keep our nation safe from CCP hostiles.

Australia being much closer to mainland China, has even more on their CI plate combating the CCP's PLA and MSS.

Fred

J,

"accomplish what would require several torpedoes to accomplish." Really, which CVN is resting on the bottom of the Pacific because it was destroyed in combat and sunk? Exactly one crew member has died, he was 41 and zero mention has been made of any underlying medical issue he might have had.

"Liaoning strike group" The engineers aboard are busy with the work of affecting the thermodynamic properties of dihydrogen monoxide as they sail the Pacific. The rest of the crew is undoubtably enjoying a pleasure filled jaunt. But by all means pump out some more hyperbole.

walrus

BillWade,

I wouldn’t be surprised if we start seeing anti - chinese riots and attacks in Indonesia, Thailand and Malaysia? We have had a few such attacks in Australia already as part of a wave of nationalism and distaste for all things Chinese. There is now an resurging “buy Australian” movement as well as criticism of globalization.

Indonesia already has 6000+ cases and 500+ dead with more to come. Indonesia has a history of this behaviour - in 1998 over 11000 were murdered. I’m not sure of the CCP reaction if it happens again.

Keith Harbaugh

Just want to mention some useful refs:

1. On the activities of China: The book "Chinese Industrial Espionage"
This book is reviewed by someone connected to the CIA here:
https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/csi-studies/studies/vol-59-no-4/chinese-industrial-espionage-technology.html
I first became aware of this book through a review at one of the Not-Politically-Correct journals that I sometimes peruse.
That review brings up some very pertinent issues, so I am providing a link to the review, even though I am very well aware of how those in power are trying to demonize its venue:
https://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2020/04/18/beating-us-with-our-own-weapons/

2. For a more critical and skeptical view of China than the MSM normally provides, I just discovered the "Epoch Times".

3. For a look at how aggressive our good friends and allies the Israelis have been in elbowing to the front of the line in gaining access to the sought-after supplies needed to combat COVID, this article, featuring Mossad chief Yossi Cohen, provides a look:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/12/world/middleeast/coronavirus-israel-mossad.html

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