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08 April 2020

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just another old guy

In the previous post about the use of chloroquine for treating Covid-19 I posted a link to a research paper which concluded that there was no clinical benefit to its use for those severely ill. As far as i know this was the first actual research performed on this subset of the issue.

Below is another one I found this morning from the Pasteur Hospital in Nice. In this instance they are using the hydroxychloroquine-azithromycin drug suggestion on more mildy ill patients. This is the drug combination which so many have placed their hopes in a miracle on. The result is that it has turned out to be so toxic that it had to be discontinued. This is not the final answer as there are more variations to check out - but don't get your hopes too high.

Thus we have no seen so far that this drug idea has either no effect or is too toxic. Anecdotally, I and the teams I worked with when I was younger had to take choloroquine for long periods of time. The frequency and unpleasantness of side effects were such that many eventually refused to take the drug and took their chances with getting malaria - and we were seeing malaria all the time so this was not an uniformed choice. I have questioned this idea from the get go - but that is, of course, just a gut reaction and not valid or scientific.

I think it fair to say the stress of the situation is driving us to grasp at straws and hope for miracles. No one wants to wait the time it normally takes to work our way to a scientific solution. But that is almost certainly what we are going to end up doing anyway as the alternative has only worked on the rarest of occasions. A very interesting discussion can also take place regarding the likelihood of developing a successful vaccine as after near 20 years of working on SARS and MERS there are still no vaccines for them approved.

Link is a Goggle translate from french.

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nicematin.com%2Fsante%2Fcoronavirus-nous-avons-deja-du-interrompre-le-traitement-de-hydroxychloroquine-azithromycine-au-chu-de-nice-489118%23Echobox%3D1586243253

A. Pols

Yes, me too. I'm by no means a "prepper", but I've kept various antibiotics on hand for years now, operating on the premise that delay can be a bad thing when it comes to infections and there's a culture in medicine that's averse to prescribing antibiotics. And I travel, which puts me at risk in terra incognita. But I'm not travelling now if it involves planes or hotels!

As for 18 months, it's hard to imagine how the economy could simply be started up after such a long time and "the economy" after an 18 month furlough would hardly resemble what it was before. The old saying that is very easy to get into trouble, but hard to get out applies to this.

egl

This is pretty conservative since they require comparisons of with and without and limit use to "investigational therapy" for severe cases. Nothing to see here, keep moving.

turcopolier

just another old guy

i took chloroquine for a year and it gave me the runs but that was the only side effect I experienced.

BillWade

I was at Da Nang during the final days, the last two weeks leading up to Mar 29, 1973 (the day we had to be gone by) a bar of soap or a roll of toilet paper were precious commodities, we had zero medical personnel at that point. The 29th was in retrospect a great day for me, was sent to NE Thailand.

Well, there in Thailand we had a growing problem, the Clap. But, we discovered that the local pharmacies sold just about any drug you could imagine, at 10% of USA prices, with no Rx needed. Instead of going to "sick call" and getting a massive needle full of penicillin, one could get a bottle of tetracycline for a few bucks, it did the trick and had the fortunate side-effect of dramatically reducing acne. Commanders were happy too, VD was a statistic tracked and it didn't look good if your unit had a high rate of it.

If you could fly to Bangkok now (you can't), I'm sure you could pick up the Hydrochloroquin and whatever else you wanted for a song and without an Rx.

Leith

The chloroquine anti-malarials given to troops in SE Asia was different than the hydroxychloroquine of today. Ditto for the primaquine variant they started giving out in 1969. But I never heard that there were any toxic effects for either of those.

Although many GIs in Nam refused to take it due to rumors of it causing limpdick syndrome.

The Twisted Genius

My younger son called me yesterday to tell me our metformin may be protecting us from the coronavirus. Seems it helps keep the virus from attaching to lung cells. Metformin is a generic drug widely used to treat type 2 diabetes. This surprised me since diabetics are reportedly at higher risk from the coronavirus. I think it's more a function of uncontrolled blood sugar levels than any medications. I know a lot of diabetics in the VA have high blood sugar even with medication. They either can't control it medically or can't lay off the sugar and carbs. My son and I have our blood sugar well under control.

https://www.wired.com/story/how-un-miracle-drugs-could-help-tame-the-pandemic/

Fred

just another old guy,

It sure doesn't kill people in 5-14 days like Covid19.

"I think it fair to say the stress of the situation is driving us to grasp at straws and hope for miracles."

I don't think that is it at all. It is looking more and more like a coordinated over-reaction from national, state and local governments; the media, academia, and global corporations instead of reasoned and practical measures appropriate to the risk from this virus; anything to stop Trump supporters, Trump and allies, and anyone else opposed to a corrupt and incompetent global elite.

Col., if this is the same anti-malarial uncle sam was prescribing in the '80s then the whole crew of the sub I was on took the stuff too, including me, during Unitas25. No side effects that I recall.

CK

Some notes gathered over the past several days, and subject to change as more and better data arrives:
Chloroquine (Aralen) unless you have kidney or liver issues in which case hydroxychloroquine (Palenquil). Zpac (Azithromycin) unless you have heart issues in which case Doxycycline. Zinc supplements http://bestreviews.com/best-zinc-supplements because it is the zinc that kills the virus.
Of course a prudent person takes them before exposure, but if you can't tell when you will be exposed, immediately after is good.
Ivermectin ( deworming medicine ) is showing great potential also and is both allowed for humans and available without prescription.
Vitamin supplements are also being tested in conjunction with all these treatments. Since spring has arrived, the vitamin D deficiency we all suffer during the dreary months is now ending; but only if you go outside in the sunshine.
As far as I can ascertain, none of the current possible treatments will confer immunity or stop you from being re-infected; but they can turn a trip to the morgue into a less terminal ride.
Are they safe? Yes.
Sars-Covid-2019 is a cousin to SARS and MERS and chloroquine was shown effective against SARS in 2007.
I will reiterate that there is no Nobel Prize in Medicine given for showing that an 85 year old drug has yet another use beyond being a manufactured replacement for Quinine ( which does grow on trees but slowly and in limited quantities and in a very limited geographic area.) And there is no great profit in a generic drug that costs approx $2.50 a pill and can be produced by anyone who wants to.

PavewayIV

I'm pretty sure I have 'the bug' now. I'm caretaker for my 90+ year-old parents - crabby as hell but otherwise in remarkably good shape. I'm almost certain I got it FROM on of them. Both had coughs/sniffles the last week or two, while I felt fine. Now, the opposite. They have some amount of social contact with little regard to distancing. They just can't let the mail lady get away without catching up on the news or find out how the new kid is in the neighborhood. Same for everyone else, including the garbage men. Everyone tolerates it for a few minutes - they're such a sweet, old couple.

Yeah, I know... But ever tell a 95-year-old what they should do? Yeah... that's not going to work. I would feel terrible about hog-tying them in the basement or chaining them to a stake in the back yard to enforce social distancing, so they're free-range with the periodic reminder for now. They don't drive - thank God.

Me? Stomach ache yesterday (diffuse,lower l/r quadrant of abdomen) no B/M. Dry mouth/Thirsty as hell but couldn't drink more than a cup of water at a time. Occasional, non-productive cough - not persistent. Some head stuffiness without congestion or drainage. 'Sore' feeling throat, but not particularly red. No temperature when I finally did get my hands on a thermometer today, but must have sweated out gallons last night in my bed turned rat's next of quilts. Either that or had an embarrassing 'accident', but smell confirmed sweat. Felt incredibly weak, headaches, uncoordinated (dropping things, bumping into walls) yesterday. Somewhat better today. Still cold all the time, but local weather 50°F and comfortable indoors. Oral temp now below normal - WTF? [quickly checks pulse...]

Most important: everyone who may even remotely need to know does now and is aware that my parents are/were exposed.

Several quarts of generic Tonic water (listed containing: quinine hydrochloride) obtained. I'll assume any change in my condition is a) unrelated or b) enhanced by powerful tin-foil-hat reflecting positive rays into brain. 1 liter bottle about +80 mg, or less than a tenth of therapeutic dose or 1000mg/day. No intention of 'matching' therapeutic dose. I can only stomach a couple of those a day replacing some of my water intake and 1/2 cup of extra sugar per bottle. No Z-pacs because DHS kill team all Kabul-cammoed-up will visit my folks house with a battering ram at 3 A.M. and shoot 'threatening' sleeping dog - or my dementia-impaired father. "Good kill - perp DOWN!"

Will sugar-bomb Tonic water help? Less than a buck/bottle at COSTCO. Already take plenty of zinc. It will either work or it won't. No insurance. Looks like the bus across town to the VA if I need a ventilator. I wonder how they're doing? Closed?

David J Schuler

If the U. S. economy is actually shut down for 18 months, Dr. Fauci should expect his grandchildren to be roasted and eaten. Things will be that tough.

A. Pols

My ex wife has been taking it for RA for some time now and it has side effects that are mild compared to RA. In normal does age of . say. 400MG P/D it's hardly "so toxic" as to be dangerous and the point is that if you've car Covid 19 that's the 800 pound Gorilla.

J

I find interesting some points to ponder regarding COVID-19:

Origins.

Timing of the outbreak

Coinciding events

How COVID was and is being reported

Questionable responses by government(s)

Questionable responses by global organization(s)

Propaganda

Agenda(s)

The Players (i.e. globalists like Bill Gates)

Players advancing agendas (i.e. Bill Gates and John Hopkins, CDC, WHO, Members of Congress trying to make political hay, October 2019 pandemic exercise Event 201)

Gate Keepers of various and sundry public/private 'partnerships'

March 2019 World Economic Forum players touting the 'Known Traveler Digital Identity' which is
- Surveillance by design
- A phone app of this 'identity' that uses
- Biometrics
- Government Issued ID Credentials
- History of travel to include stops, motel stays,
car rentals, border crossings
- Logging of purchases, bank accounts information,
financial transactions
- Risk assessment to include 'pre-crime' predictions
before and after each trip and transactions
- Disease surveillance
- Captured on video and posted on YouTube of dummies being
used in what some are saying was staged pandemic
- Psychological suppression from sheltering-in-place mandates


Orwell 1984 stagings?

JerseyJeffersonian

(/i)

On a lighter note...

https://babylonbee.com/news/liberal-treated-with-hydroxychloroquine-hopes-he-still-dies-of-covid-19-to-prove-trump-is-stupid

rho

I really wonder... who does Fauci expect to pay him if the US economy remains shut down for 18 months?

turcopolier

TTG

I have taken metformin for at least ten years.

Jim S

*correction
The trial was stopped for one patient after *assessing risk*...

Boris

Hello,
As said many times by Dr. Raoult in France, Chloroquine must be taken at first signs of (confirmed) illness not when the patients are bad, it will be useless.

Jim S

The correction was aimed at "just another old guy", but I see he's moved on to beat his drum in today's post.

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