Old Drug Cocktail for a Novel (covid-19) Pandemic

By will.2718

You won’t get enough quinine from your gin and tonic to kill the corona virus, but a quinine analogue may disrupt the novel (novel to humans) covid-19 virus while a z-pack used to fight bacterial chest infections may tamp down the unleashed opportunistic bacteria. There are longterm dangers of atrial fibrillation (QT interval related) but the treatment protocol is short term.  The topic was thrust into the public venue at a recent presser by President D.J. Trump when he said “what have we got to lose, this may or may not work, let’s try it?”
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"On March 9 a team of researchers in China published results showing hydroxychloroquine was effective against the 2019 coronavirus in a test tube. The authors suggested a five-day, 12-pill treatment for Covid-19: two 200-milligram tablets twice a day on the first day followed by one tablet twice a day for four more days.

A more recent French study used the drug in combination with azithromycin. Most Americans know azithromycin as the brand name Zithromax Z-Pak, prescribed for upper respiratory infections. The Z-Pak alone doesn’t appear to help fight Covid-19, and the findings of combination treatment are preliminary.

But researchers in France treated a small number of patients with both hydroxychloroquine and a Z-Pak, and 100% of them were cured by day six of treatment. Compare that with 57.1% of patients treated with hydroxychloroquine alone, and 12.5% of patients who received neither.

What’s more, most patients cleared the virus in three to six days rather than the 20 days observed in China. That reduces the time a patient can spread the virus to others. One lesson that should inform the U.S. approach: Use this treatment cocktail early, and don’t wait until a patient is on a ventilator in the intensive-care unit."

https://www.wsj.com/articles/these-drugs-are-helping-our-coronavirus-patients-11584899438?mod=hp_opin_pos_3
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The usual regimen for Z-Pak or azithromycin is 500 mg PO once, then 250 mg once daily for 4 days. (from medscape). These drugs are prescription drugs to be monitored under medical supervision.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azithromycin

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroxychloroquine#COVID-19

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisettevoytko/2020/03/22/new-york-to-begin-clinical-trials-for-coronavirus-treatment-tuesday-cuomo-says/
https://techcrunch.com/2020/03/19/french-study-finds-anti-malarial-and-antibiotic-combo-could-reduce-covid-19-duration/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrial_fibrillation

(I’m not a physician nor do I portray one on radio, tv, nor the silver screen. I was awarded a JD, but was told in law school not to use the “Doctor” title because it would confuse the public. Dr. Pat Roberson didn’t get the message.)

Comments

[Joe100]

I did Z-pack a while back when I was diagnosed with pneumonia and I quickly recovered. From what I have read, Covid-19 damages lungs allowing viral and/or bacterial infections to set in.

Of some interest, on his Saturday podcast Scott Adams mentioned that a frie[n]d with clear Covid symptoms and with known contact with a confirmed Covid case went to a (I assume Bay area) emergency room and after a very long wait for treatment was immediately on chloroquine. So this seems to be a path already being taken by some parts of the medical community.

[will.2718]

the virus works on the ACE receptors. those that have taken lisinpril for blood pressure and developed the ACE cough will know what i'm talking about. ACE=angiotensin converting enzyme. The ACE system is involved in releasing surfacants which lubricate the alveoli. Without that "lubricant" the lungs "seize," the immune system over reacts, a cytokine storm is unleashed, & pneumonia develops. Those not put on ventilators, even though they might recover, eventually develop fibrosis or rubbery lungs. This is not my field, just what ive picked up from reading.

http://thesaker.is/how-to-treat-coronavirus-infection-covid-19/

[Beli Tsari]

Quercetin-Bromelain & Ascorbic acid tabs are available online. Or, Sambuchus nigra, dill, pomegranate, Pterostilbene (Nicotinamide riboside if you have high BP) D3, zinc, some of the tree fungi, HOPS, Mexican oregano, lovage, billberry, cranberry...

[Terence Gore]

"The antihypertensive effects of vitamin D are mediated by renoprotective effects, suppression of the RAAS, by beneficial effects on calcium homeostasis, including the prevention of secondary hyperparathyroidism, and by vasculoprotection.[85]"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3356951/

[Leith]

China also used/uses the antiviral drug Favilavir (favipiravir). This is a locally produced version of Japan's Avigan. 'China's science and technology minister, Zhang Xinmin, called the drug "clearly effective" on the basis of this study. In addition, X-rays showed that those treated with the drug had less lung damage than those who weren't.'

https://asiatimes.com/2020/03/race-to-find-holy-grail-of-covid-19-treatments/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Favipiravir

But speaking of "old" drug cocktails, Xi Jinping and Chinese state media are claiming traditional Chinese herbal medicines have been effective for restraining the coronavirus. Along with Ephedra they also said that Shuanghuanglian has been effective against the virus. It has been around for a millenia or two as a cure for fever, coughs, and colds. It contains Japanese honeysuckle, Chinese skullcap and forsythia suspensa.

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3076500/beijing-pushes-traditional-chinese-medicine-coronavirus

[ISL]

From statnews (for health care professionals):

https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/22/why-trump-at-odds-with-medical-experts-over-malaria-drugs-against-covid-19/

"The study referenced by Trump, and other studies done so far of potential treatments for Covid-19, are small and hastily designed even by the standards of Phase 1 studies. So how often do infectious-disease drugs that enter Phase 2 studies reach the market? An analysis by the Biotechnology Industry Organization says they worked out only 27.5% of the time between 2009 and 2015. That means that three-quarters of the time, medicines against infectious disease that looked promising in small studies either were ineffective or had side effects that made them unusable. Even for medicines that reached Phase 3 trials, just 63% succeeded.

If as a result, proper non-pharmaceutical interventions are not followed and it turns out to be in the VAST majority of promising initial drugs....

[JMH]

The Korean national diet is highly medicinal, no wonder they are shrugging this off.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimchi

[Pundita]

I've posted this link in another comment section of this blog but consider it so important I'm reposting here.

The link is to a report on what I think is the best scientific study so far on the virus. Important report, written in plain English.

https://www.theeagle.com/news/national/there-s-a-lot-we-don-t-know-uw-researchers/article_4791b57c-6058-5913-85e6-4fbb72d00156.html

I got rid of my ACE cough by downing megadoses of Vitamin C powder (and immediately stopping lisinopril. The cough, and the sensation of 'burning up' that accompanied it, disappeared within minutes of taking the C. As to how much I took -- [laughing] I just kept spooning teaspoons into juice. The only time one can OD on Vitamin C is when a mild diarrhea develops. That's your body's way of saying it has enough Vit C to work with for the time being, thank you very much. The pills can touch off the runs too, but that's from the filler. One can down a huge amt. of the C in powder form with no runs -- depends on how much C the body needs to fight the poison. The key is to keep taking the stuff , and ease off gradually so you don't get scurvy from stopping megadoses.

As for Zpack -- well, you already mentioned the biggest risk for long term use, But to save a life -- for very short term, I like your reasoning yet that particular antibiotic still scares me, even though I used it for an ear infection with no side effects. One doctor observed years ago that the biggest risk is that it's prescribed so widely.

Also, all kinds of anti-inflammatory supplements, some mentioned in this comment section, could help. See the news report linked above for the explanation.

Thanks for your observations/news about quinine. And speaking of gin -- from Euronews:

BEGIN QUOTE
Spirit of invention: Gin distillery makes hand gel for COVID-19 fight

Workers at the Listoke Distillery and Gin School in rural Ireland have halted production of gin to make hand sanitiser to aid the fight against the coronavirus.

The product is being sold at cost price in a bid to stem the spread of COVID-19, as hand sanitiser is sold out in shops."

The Irish. I bet they wouldn't do it with whiskey.

[Peter AU1]

Max quinine in bottled tonic water is around 80mg per liter I believe. Syrup likely stronger.
To prevent malaria 300mg chloroquine once per week
https://www.drugs.com/dosage/chloroquine.html#Usual_Adult_Dose_for_Malaria_Prophylaxis

In vito testing chloroquine vs SARS-CoV both to prevent and to cure
https://virologyj.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1743-422X-2-69

[will.2718]

The poison is in the dose- Galen. Not sure about Aquarium cleaning compound, either?
Arizona man dies after taking chloroquine for coronavirus
https://news.trust.org/item/20200323225613-cmq3v?

of course, a phosphate is a salt or ester of Phosphorus, P. P is an essential element found in ATP and all over the place. Excess P is a tremendous kidney load. Interesting, i use a toothpaste that has a phosphate- nanohydroxyapatite:
"Bones and teeth
An important occurrence of phosphates in biological systems is as the structural material of bone and teeth. These structures are made of crystalline calcium phosphate in the form of hydroxyapatite. The hard dense enamel of mammalian teeth consists of fluoroapatite, a hydroxy calcium phosphate where some of the hydroxyl groups have been replaced by fluoride ions."

[will.2718]

The virus interacts w the ACE receptors which are involved in surfacants for the lungs. There is a great debate whether hypertension meds such as ACE inhibitors & ARB’s (such as losartan) help or hurt w the c virus.

https://www.ibtimes.com/coronavirus-treatment-losartan-might-help-us-combat-covid-19-symptoms-2943600

[will.2718]

From my nephew, the young Doctor in U.K. On the speed people are put on ventilators:

“Within 1 hr of not maintaining oxygen saturation’s on 15L of O2~ Sats of 91%. The ICU docs intubate them. I can see our ICU becoming full, very fast.”

[will.2718]

the Marseilles hydrochloroquine-zpack treatment study for covid19

http://thesaker.is/interview-with-professor-didier-raoult-in-the-parisien-newspaper-22-march-2020/

[will.2718]

updates
pro
https://www.wsj.com/articles/an-update-on-the-coronavirus-treatment-11585509827?

con
medscape requires a subscription, so it's just copied and pasted below:
"COVID-19 Daily: New Hydroxychloroquine Data, Dire PPE Shortages
Christine Wiebe

March 29, 2020
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Editor's note: Find the latest COVID-19 news and guidance in Medscape's Coronavirus Resource Center.

Here are the latest coronavirus stories Medscape's editors around the globe think you need to know about today:

More Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) Data

The same French researchers who created buzz over a potential treatment for COVID-19 released new data that they say bolsters the idea that HCQ with azithromycin is effective in battling the virus. The uncontrolled study of 80 patients found a significant decrease in viral load, but it failed to convince skeptics who want to see studies that include a comparator group.

The new data are "complementary," said Benjamin Davido, MD, a French infectious diseases expert, but they do not provide new information or new statistical evidence. He told Medscape France that he personally believes in HCQ, but it would be "a shame to think that we have found the fountain of youth and to realize, in four weeks, that we have the same number of deaths."

Perry Wilson, MD, provided further context by describing data from the earlier French study as "equivocal at best," arguing for complete transparency about what is known and what is not. "If we want to use hydroxychloroquine, that is a reasonable choice, but we need to tell the public the truth: We're not too sure it will work, and it may even be harmful," he said. "