Could We Agree On A New Constitution? - Republished 14 January 2020

This question has recently re-surfaced in the context of Democratic candidates' for 2020's evident desire to make serious changes to the US Constitution with regard to the electoral college, the supreme court and similar matters.

The US Constitution can legally be changed in two ways:

-By amendment.  We have done that throughout our history, choosing to change the document paragraph by paragraph after a deliberately difficult process of Congressional approval and state ratification.  (2/3 of each house of Congress agreeing and 3/4 of the states ratifying) Many, many amendments proceed only part way through the process and then fail, never becoming part of the constitution.  Think of the Equal Rights Amendment (ERA).  Has it been 45 years that it has waited for state ratification?

-By Constitutional Convention, like the first time in 1789.  This will not happen.  Why?  The states would be free to ratify or not ratify the new document and those that did not would be out of the Union.  (If that is not true, tell me why.) Who will risk that?  Who will risk the possibility that the Red/Blue divide in this country is not so serious that it would produce such a result.  Already there is much talk of polarization to the point of alienation.  What would be the result if Red Staters could rid themselves of Blue Staters or vice versa without an overt penalty.

IMO, if a constitutional convention were convened it would effectively become the supreme law of the land.  That is what happened with the convention that created the USA as we know it.  The convention in Philadelphia was convened to "adjust" the Articles of Confederation.  Once convened, the delegates seized control and created a completely new system of government.  The states are the contracting parties to the constitution and so the new constitution had to be submitted to the states for ratification. Two states, Rhode Island and North Carolina voted to reject the new government before Virginia, by the slimmest of margins, voted yes to "close" the deal.  It took several years and the Federalist Papers to obtain that final ratification.  RI and NC then changed their minds rather than be left isolated with the Europeans still on their "doorsteps."

Would not the large states wish to end the "great compromise" that gives each state (however small) two seats in the senate?  To do that would require the acquiescence of the small states in a process of ratification.  Would Wyoming  or Vermont or any of the other "small" states do that for California or Florida?  If frustrated in this process would Texas or any of the other big states leave the new country by rejecting ratification?

How many other provisions of the present constitution would be challenged?  Name a few.  How about the Income Tax Amendment?  How about popular election of US Senators?

Spare me any cant about "economic viability."  All over the world we have examples of states which are anything but economically viable but which exist because people there just couldn't "stand" being bound to some other group of people within the loving embrace of a constitution.  In any event, trade is not limited to national territory.

The accepted wisdom in the USA has been that regional cultural differences are disappearing under the influence of migration and the universal prevalence of a "national" (read Northern) culture.  It is mostly Northerners who say this.  They have been saying it since the 1830s.  Places like Atlanta and northern Virginia seem to support this view, but if you ask you will find that most of the proponents of that view who live in the metropolitan areas rarely leave those areas except by air or rail.  They don't feel "comfortable" wandering around the countryside.  Why is that?

The contrarian view is that, in fact, the regions and their cultures are actually growing farther apart, and that the values of places like New York City and the Piedmont region of the Upper South are farther apart than ever before.  This time it is not just a question of the culture of the South being "different."  Look at the Red/Blue Map by counties all over the country for the last two elections.  Look at places like California and Oregon.  Look at New York State.  The rural areas are Red if the population there is not a minority or solidly "labor" like the Masabi Iron Range in the far north, while the cities are Blue just about everywhere.  These divisions are deepening, not disappearing.  It would seem that now the split is rural/urban, as well as regional.

Let's not have another constitutional convention, not ever.  We are not Canada.  The Canadian government said years ago that a Quebec decision for "sovereignty" would be accepted.  I can't imagine that happening here and I would fear the result if it were attempted.  pl 

Comments

[MRW]

This is 100% true, LeaNder. The Democrats, actually, were like the present-day Tea Party until 1910.

[MRW]

FACTOID: the terms Red State and Blue State were invented in 2000 by TV broadcasters to indicate Republican and Democrat, respectively. New shiny CGI toys.

[MRW]

When were civics classes stopped? Anyone know?

[MRW]

Cruz is a constitutional expert, supposedly. He is lusting to add his John Henry to constitutional changes. He's running on the idea. (He worked for a couple of Supreme Court justices, I think.)

[LeaNder]

Thanks Pat, yes, that's it. Fact is my knowledge of American history is much more limited then the British.

I surely once knew. But really I need more knowledge in the context.

[r whitman]

You and your machine gun are not going to stop 10 million Mexican peasants from invading the New Arizona Republic as soon as its declared.

[GulfCoastPirate]

Tyler,

The New Arizona Republic? Hilarious. If this convention breaks the country apart your republic won't have enough water for you to wipe your behind. You won't have to worry about anyone trying to get in.

[GulfCoastPirate]

Again no. If they leave me alone to live my life as I see fit I will give them the same in return; however, as you, I and history all know that's not their style.

[GulfCoastPirate]

alba etie,

The Austinites are a different breed from most in that area - that's for sure.

If we assume this constitutional convention breaks the country apart then those in LaPorte/Deer Park as well as many others in the areas where the plants are located will have to make some hard decisions. Those plants are located along the Gulf Coast because of its proximity to deep water. To move those goods (especially overseas) requires banking/shipping as well. Those banking/shipping facilities are mostly located in 'blue' states and those of us along the coast are more dependent on them than many in the interior of the country may be. If we don't side with the 'blue' states then I think we all know the ports and petrochemical facilities will be blockaded. Obviously, this is all hypothetical but there is a distinct reason the Houston-Galveston area tends to be 'blue' while the rest of the state (outside Austin of course) tends 'red'. As I said before, we simply have more in common with a New York or Los Angeles than we do with Des Moines.

[GulfCoastPirate]

Colonel,

I would argue with the proposition that the media is 'left' on domestic issues.

[Jose]

Find out who got those jobs

[Fred]

Tyler,

Good thing you are already armed. Obama's out to rile us up again:
https://gma.yahoo.com/obama-says-hasnt-given-gun-control-100124085--abc-news-health.html

I loved the segway from "illegal gun runners" to comments about Sandy Hook.

[fasteddiez]

Alba Etie, On the DUH part: I wasn't trying to be a wise ass. I spent seventeen years in Houston, although I was not a fer real Texian, not having been born there. When I arrived, I stayed at the Robert E. Lee appartment complex on Chimney Rock. This was the the edge of the suburbs at the time, as there was a small cattle spread a stone's throw away. Because of the city's exploding growth, I now understand that this is another bad neighborhood.

Houston was the first large city to elect a gay female to mayor. Also, I well remember mayor Tootsie.

[fasteddiez]

Fred, You are right, I hates me some illegal gun runners, I heard Maryland is a leading locale for such hanky panky. Everyone Knows that the Feds are the duly recognized, and the Deputy Dawg certified Lashup with the authority to run Guns. I bet they're running said products and their attendant ammo to Lviv and Kiev, as we scribble. I hope those weapons are slathered with orange colored cosmoline.

On the subject of freedom besotted gun runners using Segways to import firearms to the good folk of Sandy Hook; this is clearly not practical, nor cost effective. It would be better to take a cigarette boat from Long Island Sound, and North, up the Housatonic river To Sandy Hook/Newtown. Segways are just not known for their Hauling capabilities.

Well, I better end here, with my seemingly non-sensical screeds, afore I segue into another soliloquy.

[GulfCoastPirate]

Tyler wrote:

'I will prove my non-racist creds by making sure to machine gun the white economic refugees trying to cross the All American Canal in Yuma with their Whole Food bags full of organic, locally sourced produce high above their head to the exclusion of all others. The browns and the blacks didn't make a mess of what is going to be the Progressive People's Republic of California - they got bamboozled! they done got hoodwinked!

I'll call my 240B light machine gun "Affirmative Action".'

Yes, it is me that is filled with contempt and condescension. What is it with you and this guy?

[Fred]

fasteddiez,

You did put some humor into that one.

[Tyler]

R Whitman,

1.) You'd be hard pressed to find 10 million Mexican peasants who have that much gumption.

2) We have our own 10 million Mexicans who are smart enough to know that another 10 million of their countrymen is just going to make things worst. They know the score.

3) The crack troops of the New Arizona Republic (picture here: http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2013/252/a/a/brotherhood_of_steel_old_world_flag_by_crimsondaeva-d4ubole.jpg) are more than a match for any amount of peons whipped up by the likes of Jorge Cruz.

[Tyler]

Fred,

Yeah no kidding. Its not like BPA Brian Terry wasn't killed by a gun running operation.

Oh wait it was.

[alba etie]

fastediez
That small cattle spread may have been part of the larger Fondren Ranch holding .We first lived first on Navarro Street not far from the Robert E Lee apartments. Hunted bobwhites with the family bird dog out of our backyard on Ettrick Street further south and west from there. Watch the same type of growth overtake Central Texas. I just do not see any part of Texas succesfully seceding from Texas should we secede from the Union . All highly hypothetical - but I am a native son so my opinion may matter in this type of discussion .

[r whitman]

The New Arizona Republic is ground zero for the Reconquista.

[Tyler]

I figured it was so tongue in cheek with references to "Whole Food bags full of organic, locally sourced produce high above their head" that it wasn't going to be taken seriously, but looks like it got a deleted.

Way to ruin a good time, GCP. You're a blast at parties I'm sure.

[Tyler]

GCP,

Lmbo yeah okay.

The 60s were 50 years ago. Let's talk about people losing their livelihood for not supporting the current Progressive Cult of today and trying to start hot wars with nuclear powers over tranny rights.

[Tyler]

Whitman,

You spelt "California" weird there.

[Tyler]

GCP,

Well I was trying to extend an olive branch but now you're not getting amnestied.

[GulfCoastPirate]

Tyler wrote:

'You're a blast at parties I'm sure.'

I've already used a similar line on you multiple times. Try to come up with something unique to yourself - if you are capable.