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13 December 2019

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Seamus Padraig

Yup, exactly. Graham is basically on the same side as the Democrats on the Ukraine issue, so he doesn't want it getting any more exposure than it's gotten already. As he sees it, time to change the conversation ...

JerseyJeffersonian

Here is a tongue in cheek account, but at root, pithy:
https://babylonbee.com/news/trumps-popularity-rises-after-revelation-he-obstructed-congress

srw

I am a facts based guy and think that the impeachment inquiry brought out indisputable facts by the testimony of numerous civil servants. Whether these facts justify an impeachment is in the eye of the beholder.
Facts
1. Trump sought to have the Ukrainian President, Zelenski, open an investigation on both Biden's by withholding military aid and a White House visit. This was for his own election benefit and not in the interests of the US. (Sounds to me like an abuse of presidential power)
2. Stonewalled the whole impeachment investigation by withholding all requested documents and instructing his advisers, appointees, and civil servants to not testify in the inquiry. (sounds to me like obstruction of Congress)
If you believe all this is kosher, then we have something more than an "imperial presidency".

artemesia

The Biden corruption is only the tip of the iceberg of the whole Ukraine affair; Vindman's finger-wagging comments made that clear.

It may be -- perhaps in a more perfect world -- it WOULD be that case that a trial would track back to what USA - Victoria Nuland was doing in Ukraine in the first place.

Were American interests being protected, or is US animosity toward Russia, w/ Ukraine the battle ground in fact the continuation of the Bolsheviki grudge against Russia?
In a conversation w/ John Bathelder a few weeks ago, Russia expert Stephen Cohen said that Trump, thru Giuliani, has been attempting to bring Zelensky and Putin to a resolution of their conflicts.
https://www.unz.com/scohen/why-are-we-in-ukraine/

However, it is now verboten to even raise the matter of the grudges of a certain protected class. So if Trump opted for a trial, he may find himself afoul of the (spirit of) the executive order he just signed into being, or of the agenda of the U S State Dept. Monitor for Antisemitism, Elan Carr, who declared that "anti-zionism IS antisemitism."

kgbgb

Was it this article at The Conservative Treehouse? https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2019/12/08/wow-oan-stunning-lutsenko-interview-outlines-marie-yovanovitch-perjury-george-kent-impeachment-motive-lindsey-graham-motive-to-bury-investigation/

Jack

What was the evidence that the civil servants provided of the quid pro quo ? Memo from Trump or their superiors? Verbal order from Trump?

There is indisputable evidence of Biden demanding a quid pro quo from the Ukrainians.

blue peacock

srw

I'm not sure we saw the same hearings. I did not see or hear any actual evidence that Trump ordered them to withhold aid until an inquiry on the Bidens was launched. What I heard was testimony of hearsay and presumption and assumption. Not facts in the meaning of that word.

BTW, whatever happened to the "whistleblower" who apparently began it all? No testimony, no nothing.

Also, do you think the inquiry was fair? The Democrats decided who could be called as witnesses and neither Trump nor the Republicans could call any to rebut. Bill Clinton was afforded more courtesy by the Republicans in his impeachment inquiry. Notwithstanding while he did commit perjury, I don't believe it met the bar of high crimes for an impeachment.

Fred

Srw,

So all other presidents who claimed privilege were actually obstructing Congress and were subject to impeachment as will be all future presidents who claim privilege. Burisma, a Ukrainian company, can not be investigated because a Biden is on the board. Hunter has a very lucrative future ahead of him as an insurance against investigation.

J

I would have rather have seen they expend such energy and money in shutting down Israeli Intelligence Epstein Pedophile Blackmail Honey Trap operation. It would be great to see some backbone be shown by DOJ, FBI CI, and CIA in shutting down the Israelis putrid operation!

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