Lesson for today - Shoot back at the nuts!

"Many Democrats and liberal media figures sneer at the “good guy with a gun” narrative when it comes to the debate over gun control, dismissing it as a myth clung to by Bible-thumping rednecks. Yet, if there was ever a single incident to remind us just how wrong they are, it’s the tragic church shooting that was thankfully stopped in its tracks on Sunday.

An armed intruder interrupted a morning service at West Freeway Church of Christ near Fort Worth, Texas, disrupting the ceremony and shooting several worshiping Christians. At least two people are dead as a result, including the suspect, and one injured.

But things could have been much, much worse. Two armed people attending the service intervened and shot the attacker in his tracks after just seconds, undoubtedly saving many lives."   Washington Examiner

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/thank-the-second-amendment-texas-church-shooting-stopped-in-its-tracks-by-armed-hero

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"Hours after a knife-wielding man barged into a Hanukkah party in a New York suburb, stabbing five people, top officials condemned the crime as part of a disturbing trend. New York Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo called it "domestic terrorism," linking it to the recent spate of violence against Jewish people in New York.

Anti-Semitic attacks are on the rise around the country, leaving members of the Jewish community feeling frightened and unsafe. In New York City, anti-Semitic crimes have jumped 21 percent in the past year."  Washpost

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/acts-of-anti-semitism-are-on-the-rise-in-new-york-and-elsewhere-leaving-jewish-community-rattled/2019/12/29/f8c20578-2a7e-11ea-bcb3-ac6482c4a92f_story.html

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Well, pilgrims, the lesson contained in these two incidents seems clear to this old troglodyte.  These extremely orthodox Jewish folks were gathered together in their distinctive apparel to celebrate Hanukkah.  The door bell rings.  Someone goes to the door perhaps expecting another celebrant in side curls and funny hat.  Instead, there stood an African American man with a bushy beard and a big knife.  Unhappy with Jewish people for some reason, he proceeds to try to stab all present that he can reach and then flees into the street.

The same day down in Texas in a suburb of Ft. Worth, curiously called "White Settlement" another nut job suddenly produces a weapon from concealment and starts to shoot up the congregation.

Within seconds two congregants draw pistols and shoot him dead.end of attack.

It would seem to me that, however bad both incidents were, the second outcome is preferable.  N.B. that the New York killer was armed with a knife.  If any of the Jews had been armed with a gun this man could have been stopped before he got very far in his mad attack.

Think it over.  pl

Comments

[srw]

If a knife wielder came to my door I would have to confront him with just what's available as all my guns are under lock and key.

[Amir]

Especially as the knife-terrorist was professionally trained by the best in the world, the Hanukkah party attendees are lucky that he didn’t have a gun, because of strict gun laws in NYC. Anecdotes about good- vs. bad gunner in Texas church prove as much as the lack of an ex-Marine’s effectiveness proves, when the latter is solely armed with a blade in NYC.

[ISL]

My parents live in Monsey and there is also widespread talk/grievance about how the ultra-orthodox turn houses into temples in communities within walking distance, removing them from the tax base, while having large families and using the roads and other public services. Funny, how Judaism as a state-subsidized religion isn't so popular here in the US.

[Leith]

Damn good shot it was for an old guy with white whiskers. He took that calm and careful aim even though the perp had a long gun. Looks to be about ten or eleven pews distance between Wilson and the perp, not sure what distance that equates to?

The article mentioned he is running for County Commish, but with the name recognition he now has he should run for Congress.

[Diana C]

I have never lived near a large Jewish community. I have taught in public schools with a very few Jewish teachers, whom I did not even know were Jewish at first until I got to know them better.

English literature from many eras is replete with negative depictions of Jews--think of Shakespeare, for example.

So my statement is based on that personal history. The few Jewish people I knew were people I, at first, did now know were Jewish.

What you are describing is more like, for instance, what my own Volga/Black Sea German immigrant families may have been like on first arriving here. Because they came from Russia but spoke an older German dialect, most people did no know how to "label" them. They had endured at first some of the usual distrust of foreigners and saw signs saying "No Russians Allowed." They came to do stoop labor in the beet fields. Later that was done my Mexican migrant workers.

The difference between their group and the Mexicans was that they encouraged their children to grow up "American." They made sure they learned English and attended public schools through graduation, at a time when many Americans didn't think more than an eighth-grade education was necessary.

Our particular church was, of course, Christian; so their Christianity did no set them apart as, perhaps, Jewish people were. We did hear a sermon in German for the older people, followed by one in English for the younger people.

So, the point that you are making, if I am right, is this: My ethnic group wanted to integrate into the larger society, while the Jewish groups you are thinking of do not.

Now, this is what many don't understand about the Mexican-Americans of the Southwest and West. Many in that group also do not necessarily want to integrate into American society. Many use their Spanish language as a weapon of sorts. They speak to each other in Spanish around us and pretend, in some cases, not to understand what we are saying. They also expect that we change to fit them in public schools rather than to change themselves to fit our academic culture. They seem, though there are many exceptions, not to think education is important.

It's why many of us are considered "racist" against them. They use more welfare than the Caucasians use, the young men cling to their "Machismo" attitudes--which often result in knife fights, etc. Young Mexican girls who become pregnant and unmarried at an early age are pampered and praised as mothers.

Of course, of course I know that many of these Mexican Americans DO try to integrate into the larger American society. I grew up with many of these Hispanics who are now living a middle class American lifestyle.

I could go on. If I am right about this, then you are describing another group like the Mexican Americans who want to retain their Mexican culture when you mention these Jewish groups.

I have known only Jewish people here who live lifestyles that are mostly integrated into the larger community. The only way we notice a difference is that Friday night is important to them for religious reasons while Sunday is our religious day. I do know they avoid certain foods, but then for me--a long time vegetarian--I am different in that way also.

Thank you for clarifying the issue for me.

[Diana C]

So, does that mean that in such an environment, every adult should have a gun handy?

That might mean that some very good teachers would not be teaching. I do not want to seem prideful, but my students' test scores were usually higher than other teachers' students' scores. I would not teach if I was expected to carry a gun, and with my near-sighted eyes, no one would want me to carry a gun.

But, as I mentioned, I could name only a very few teachers I would have trusted with a gun in the building where I taught, where there were 1,500 students usually and only 120 adults, many of whom were office staff.

I am just lucky, I guess, that Colorado has not yet turned entirely nut-case progressive and still values the old-fashioned idea of families with parents who expect their children to behave.

I know there are large schools in Denver with more troublesome populations, but I think it's telling that the schools in Colorado that have experienced anything sort of like what happened in Florida were in more affluent schools--where affluent parents often just can't imagine their kids as having evil thoughts, or where those parents are too busy to know at all what their kids are doing.

The Parkland case was absolutely the failure of public employees: The FBI had been warned about that kid; the adoptive mother had tried on several occasions to get the police to take him away; the school itself had tried to make authorities aware of that kid.

I once lived and taught in a prison community. The prison systems and the school district were the organizations that employed the most people. My older son was being harassed during sixth grade by a prisoner's son all the time. The principal was a "libtard" as you are describing the people in Fla. He kept trying to be super nice to this kid. The kid often bragged to other kids that he could get away with anything because the principal wouldn't do anything.

So, when I had enough of that kids bothering my kid, I called the police on him. I had tried first to talk with the principal, but he was too busy talking sports with the sixth grade teacher to come to the phone. I explained to the officer why I was upset. The officer left my house with his sirens blaring and pulled into the school and took that kid out of the classroom and warned him that if he (the officer) received any more reports of his troublesome behavior with other students, he would take him in an book him.

The principal thought I and the officer "over reacted." The officer told him that HE (the principal) had under reacted.

I taught in that district and dealt with many prisoner's kids in the classroom. My administrators often thought I was too strict and that I over reacted. The truth was, however, that they knew most of my other students were entirely on my side.

[Mike Wallens]

There is no evidence on any site that I have seen that states the Wilson, the shooter of the attacker, was ever an FBI agent.

[ambrit]

I hear you Colonel. Training is essential. Then, regular time at the range, which is a big field set up adjacent to the Camp hereabouts, to keep familiar with your firearm.
Despite rumours to the contrary, a lot of us lefties are firm supporters of the Second Amendment. Plus, I absolutely despise the present day Democrat Party. Go figure.
A happy and healthy New Year to you and yours and the other posters here Colonel!

[SAC Brat]

"Monsey is not that far from Kyrias Joel"

Also not far from New Square. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Square,_New_York

There has been a lot of friction over the years as the religious communities expanded and pushed out nonmembers.

[SAC Brat]

In Southeast Asia some of the Buddhist monks also possess firearms for protection. This tends to freak out Americans too, which seems silly.

A few years ago when my house was blessed the visiting abbot and three monks from a local temple asked for a tour of the house. They were all very interested in my basement target range and reloading presses.

Try using buddhist monk and pistol as search keywords for articles on the subject.

[Artemesia]

The point I apparently failed to make effectively is that there are grievances linked to actions of Jewish groups; those grievances, if not permitted to be aired and addressed, will inevitably fester and explode.

The claim that expression of such grievances, or criticism of Jewish groups or persons is "antisemitism" is terminologically inexact -- antisemitism used to mean, animus toward Jews JUST BECAUSE they are Jews. If criticism or even animus has a cause, then it is not antisemitism. It may not be pleasant, and it may not be just, but it is not antisemitism. If violence results from the expression of animus, then it's a crime of a greater or lesser degree, but it's still not -- or should not be -- "antisemitism."

When causes and reasons are not explored, the problem cannot be solved --the label of antisemitism is counterproductive.

Furthermore, Jews have caused themselves to put in specially privileged categories -- above even legitimate criticism. That is offensive; it's bound to stir resentments; and it flies in the face of US Constitutional expectations.

Listen here, as a man from Rockland County, NY explains the conflicts between Jews and other citizens of the area: @ 51 min: https://www.c-span.org/video/?467733-2/washington-journal-news-headlines-viewer-calls&playEvent

Over the past year or so Jewish influencers have imposed increasing constraints on free speech. Whatever you think about the events in Charlottesville, it was not intended to be violent, and however offensive some speech was, it was protected speech. Yet at least one Jewish group is determined to "crush . . . and financially cripple" several of the protesters, as an example that Thou Shalt Not say things that Jewish people do not like to hear.

That's not only contrary to Constitutional guarantees, it, too is counterproductive: if you can't get your point across, or air your grievance, in speech and non-violent protest, then the only recourse is violence.

That said, imo there's something hinky about the machete attack. I haven't read a blow-by-blow report of how the thing happened, but how did one man get inside a house, hurt 5 men (presumably among other men), and get away in his car? How badly hurt were those who were stabbed? Does one "stab" with a machete, or slash?

[JK from Arkansas]

The fellow was not FBI. He was once a reserve deputy of the county in which the shooter, Brainison DeWall made his attempt. Also firearm was not a revolver rather it was a Sig (229/357?) semiauto with the headshot made from 12 to 15 yards.

True he was also a CCL instructor as well as a trainer and from 1999 through 2014 owned and operated an indoor range.

Apologies Turcopolier for the link as I've noted you're not particularly fond of 'em but in my defense it's a straightforward news-link.

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/churchs-head-of-security-says-he-killed-an-evil-not-a-human-in-taking-down-gunman/2283824/

[The Twisted Genius]

Well I may not have constructed a thing, but I got a few central facts dead wrong. The fellow, Jack Wilson, was not a former or retired FBI agent. He was a firearms instructor and ran a shooting range for quite a while. The most disappointing error I made was in thinking he used a revolver. The fellow said it was his Sig Sauer semiautomatic pistol. I so wanted it to be a revolver. Seems the two congregants shot by the gunmen were also part of Jack Wilson's security team. They were alert to the possibility of danger, but the gunman got the drop on them. That does reinforce my point that it takes more than a good guy with a gun on his belt. That good guy must have the constant situational awareness and be on constant high alert to be effective. I'm all for that, but I don't live like that. It's draining.

[Eric Newhill]

Well, not exactly, Upstater. I'm in Western NY (came here almost 16 years ago for a career opportunity and for the thoroughbred racing incentives- one of my hobbies). I'm in the process of moving back to God's country (AZ). I want to get away from the terrible weather, absurdly high taxes and oppressive govt. We despise Cuomo and the rest of the liberals in the state legislature. The county I live in is solid R. We just don't have the volume of votes needed to overcome those of NYC and the ghettos of Buffalo, Rochester, etc. And Cuomo has been re-populating old towns along the Erie Canal with welfare dependent minorities from the city, furthering diluting our voice. Our Sheriff - and several others in rural counties - won't enforce Cuomo's anti- second amendment SAFE Act unless the violation is blatantly flaunted by bad intentioned people.

[vig]

They were alert to the possibility of danger,...

Yes, that's the bit I may have missed to be able understand the NYP linked video above.

The person videotaping was alert too, somehow? Wondering, what would have caused me to take out my smart/iphone at that point in time? But yes, unusual noise may well alert me too, almost automatically. After, it takes a few seconds for the documenter.

Texas Shooter Failed Background Check

https://www.frontpagemag.com/point/2019/09/texas-shooter-failed-background-check-daniel-greenfield/

"Inside Every Progressive Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out"
Twitter @Horowitz39, David Horowitz

[Fred]

TTG,

"... it takes more than a good guy with a gun..."
So if it had been a true "gun free zone" the 'bad guy' would have killed how many? Because he sure didn't set out to obey the law.

[Another old guy]

As always in the chaos of initial news reports much of what is written is not accurate.

He was not a retired FBI agent.
He was a reserve deputy sheriff from 1980-1986.
Some reports indicate he was a fire arms instructor.
He fired only one shot.
He was a small business owner for 30 years.
He was head of the security team at the church (not a parishioner perhaps) and was obviously good at the job as he stated that he had concerns about the shooter from when he entered the church.
I note that all 3 of the security team were standing very close to the shooter so it could be possible they were slowly moving in on him (but who knows).
The two men killed were also members of the security team (one of them died in the act of drawing his gun and the other seemed to not really react at all). But they were not, or should not have been, acting as congregants.
There is other info about the shooter being known to the church from many contacts, several of which were hostile. He appeared to be partially disguised (wig, heavy coat).

I fully agree that any church of size needs security in today's world and that security should not be part of the members of the congregation as if they are they are not going to be paying proper attention. Unfortunately one could also justify having some form of real security (not teachers) at schools as well. But the problem here is lack of resources. I am a volunteer officer for the town where I live and the police would have to add at least a dozen officers to the force to man the schools in town (a significant percentage of the total) - there is no money for that naturally.

[The Twisted Genius]

Fred, if that church was a true gun free zone, that jackass with the shotgun wouldn't have been allowed in there. The problem is that just designating a place to be a gun free zone doesn't make it so. You have to work at it. The dilemma is that the ultra 2A rights advocates resistance to all regulation ensures that the unfit can still obtain firearms. There has to be a middle ground.

[JK from Arkansas]

The video was occurring as is often the case in the general region as a "livestream" - you'll see many instances of church services broadcast on local tv stations (especially during eg: flu season).

Only the fellow sitting on the pew along the wall was "security" the fellow standing who the shooter apparently spoke to was not, however the 'why was he there' is explained by his having just finished handing out the communion wafers.

I've noted many criticisms directed toward the security team but I'll only address one possible - the security team as not LE and so the 'right to pre-empt' was unavailable (people who are properly schooled/trained understand the legal constraints).

The murderer had indeed been ruled incompetent (mentally) in Oklahoma back in 2014 and so yes he'd have failed a background check - then again, criminals don't generally care about the legal niceties.

[turcopolier]

JK from Arkansas

Yes, I hope you noticed that I said "shoot BACK at the nuts."

[turcopolier]

TTG et al

Do you propose to search people at doors for knives and for there to be laws against carrying pocket knives as there are in the UK? Are you planning to surrender your firearms to the New Dominion of Virginia when they get around to asking for that?

[Fred]

Diana,

"every adult" No. In addition I did not nor have ever used "libtard" to describe anyone. You are misinterpreting what I wrote. The failure of the police and school superintendent, school board and local police are due to ideological reasons. The FBI? The last thing needed is a federal police agency policing local communities.

[JK from Arkansas]

Yes I did.

We're on the same page Sir.

Incidentally, thanks for allowing the (occasional I'm figuring) unregistered on any social media commentor to offer input.

I've been reading this blog for some period just haven't had anything to add. We've 'things in common' though as I was Navy you might disagree but I'd hope not vociferously.

[Eric Newhill]

The material errors in reporting are not the result of "chaos". Rather, it's a deliberate attempt to keep another failed leftist narrative alive; specifically, that good guys with guns can't make a difference. If the good guy was an FBI agent, then he's a special case, highly trained, etc, etc and not just an ordinary citizen. The media lies to preserve false perceptions all of the time.

[Eric Newhill]

TTG,
Really? Why wouldn't the jackass with the shot gun just walk into the church and start shooting if it was a gun free zone? BTW, it seems that the jackass was a crazy jackass and should not have a gun per federal law. Guess he didn't care about federal law and wouldn't care about gun free zone laws either.