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30 December 2019

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The Twisted Genius

That's exactly how it works at airports, courtrooms, some schools and other places serious about being gun free zones usually with metal detectors and searches. As I told Fred, unless you make the effort to create a gun free zone, you don't have a gun free zone. Virginians can carry concealed pocket knives with blades of 3.5 inches or so, even in schools. We can open carry almost any edged weapon. I know of no proposed law to change that.

I'd be real surprised if any general gun confiscation laws are ever passed here. Proposed yes, but passed and signed, no. I'd even be surprised if any changes are made in the current open carry laws. I doubt I'll be surrendering any of my firearms or edged weapons. The only one that could possibly be in danger of being singled out is my M1 carbine even though I only have 10 and 15 round magazines. I think that old beauty is just as effective for mass shooting as those ugly plastic things that are in vogue these days.

turcopolier

TTG

You are a trusting soul.

Fred

TTG,

You have to work at it? How, governor Northam's gun confiscation? I won't even bother saying good luck to you on that one.

The Twisted Genius

Eric, if that church or anyplace was a true gun free zone, the jackass would have been searched before entry and he would have been turned away or his shotgun confiscated. Then there would have been a jackass in a church rather than a shotgun armed jackass. Just declaring some place a gun free zone and hoping for the best is silly.

The church chose to have a trained armed security detail and allow others to carry arms. That was a reasonable choice and worked out almost as well as keeping all guns out of the church in the first place. Both are valid approaches. There's also the question of how to better keep jackasses and dangerous people from getting guns in the first place. No matter what we do, that will never be a 100% solution in this country.

JK from Arkansas

Those spaces you enumerate are precisely what the schooled firearms (in mine and all my acquaintances case, CCW or whatever the authorizing authority having jurisdiction - CHCL in the case of Arkansas) Anyway, those are the designated spaces licensed carriers know to be under either State and/or Federal oversight and so would never imagine violating the statutes regulating. In the specific cases of airports, courtrooms, federal buildings, jails and associated LEOs, and otherwise where applicable, we'd be able to, with some confidence, be able to depend on that space's security apparatus.

But "the big ol' outside world" isn't particularly well suited (or practical) to provide 24/7 *personnel protectors* for every swinging dick everywhere. And surely TTG you cannot possibly even in your wildest imaginings think (hope) such a "gun-free-world" is anything other than a pipe dream can you?

But even if you could have you ever noticed the *more successful criminals seem to possess an uncanny knack for defeating whatever perimeter security measure[s] have been emplaced?

Optimally, in my opinion, what any who profess such apparent regard for everyone's health & welfare (purely altruistically in your case I'm certain) ought demand are that the laws already on the books be enforced. You familiar TTG at all with the sheer number of laws and regulations already in place - Sorry Turcopolier another link:

https://codes.findlaw.com/us/title-18-crimes-and-criminal-procedure/18-usc-sect-922.html

Study that TTG and when I figure you've finished about a week from now I'll revisit and we'll go over your recommended improvements.

vig

thanks, highly appreciated. Now I see. ;)

vig

one can of course always substitute ideology for the obvious reality of the journalists out there. Close deadline? Bad sources? Misunderstanding? ... other then: Target audience? The media you read or watch surely framed it to your expectations. Mostly? No?

Facts are sacred, opinion is free.

Eric Newhill

TTG,
There is no such thing as a "gun free zone". There are only zones where govt officials with guns enforce a law that says that non-officials cannot have guns. Airports and courts are not gun free. The various LEOs in them have plenty of guns. Laws only work because there are officials with guns who are, ultimately, prepared to shoot you, if you disobey the law and refuse to comply with less than lethal redirection.

The Twisted Genius

Eric, according to your logic, there are no such things as speed limits on highways unless LEOs are around to enforce those limits. There's truth in that and that was my point about enforcing gun free zones. Just posting a "no firearms allowed" sign does not make a gun free zone. It must be enforced. As an example, the Capital One Arena in DC is a gun free zone. Security personnel uses metal detectors and physical searches before every hockey game in a always sold out crowd of 20,000. The Arena prohibits all guns, knives, tasers, pepper spray and a lot of other things. This is in DC where there are near nightly shootings. A church, synagogue or mosque with a much smaller congregation than Caps fans in DC can do the same if they choose to. Or they can go the armed security route. They're both effective. A combination of the two would be more effective. It's all a matter of time, effort and money.

The Twisted Genius

Fred, yes you have to work at it. As I told Eric, hanging a "no firearms allowed" sign does not make a place a gun free zone. People have to be searched as they enter. Northam's proposals have little to do with that. His proposal to enhance red flag laws may help keeping people like that Texas jackass in wig and trenchcoat from getting his shotgun, but that's a long shot. There's always some clown willing to sell/give a weapon to any other clown. I think his proposal to ban the sale of so called assault weapons will go nowhere. I've never seen a legal definition of an assault weapon that made sense. Would that even include a Mossberg 500 shotgun with 6 or 8 rounds of 00 buckshot? And what does a pistol grip stock have to do with the lethality of a weapon?

The Twisted Genius

JK, who said anything about making "the big ol' outside world" into a gun free zone? It only works in a place where access can be controlled and you are willing to make the effort to control that access. I don't want a gun free world. I own over a dozen myself, some purely for aesthetic and historical reasons. I like them and appreciate them. I don't carry openly or concealed, but am prepared for home defense, although my first line of defense are several edged weapons. I don't like angry, demented or irresponsible people having access to weapons any more than I like drunk drivers. I agree with you on one thing. Existing laws against those thinks should be better enforced.

Fred

TTG,

"Red flag laws"? You mean an anonymous accusation will trigger an investigation and confiscation? Kind of like "hate speech" gets one banned from the social media, or #metoo gets one disemployed as happened to Senator Franken and others - but not Governor Northam or the Lt. Governor? I won't even point out the uncosntitutional nature of all such "red flag" laws.

"There's always some clown willing to sell/give a weapon to any other clown." Yeah, and zero red flag laws are going to stop that though actual policiing would have an effect, as did Rudy Guliani's very controversial "stop and frisk" policy, the incarceration - after trial by jury - of accused criminals had in NYC.

Fred

TTG,

"They're both effective."
Ah, no. The premeditated murderer is not stopped by signs or metal detectors. "This is in DC where there are near nightly shootings." Perhaps focussing on the actual criminals would be more effective. Where's the enhanced police investigations in DC and which politicians are being held accountable for their multiple years long failure of criminal coddling policies?

JK from Arkansas

You TTG by any chance reflect on what you've just posted?

"This is in DC where there are near nightly shootings"?

The Twisted Genius

JK, that's just the way it is in DC and the violent crime rate is only half of what it was in the early and mid 90s. I'm surprised you haven't heard about it.

optimax

The following clip is of the only person on the news to mention the fact that the people attacking and harassing the Hasidic Jews in NY are all African Americans--mostly young males but a few women too. The Africans Americans don't like the Jews buying the houses in their neighborhood and taking it over. If you watch enough videos of these attacks, you can tell they think it's fun to mess with people they see as easy marks. Still, some in the media and other influential race baiters blame white supremacy and/or President Trump for the attacks. Contrary to the facts, they promote the false narrative that all the problems experienced by African Americans--disproportionately high levels of poverty and violent behavior-- are due to white oppression. Young African Americans are also attacking older Asians in San Francisco. Something is wrong and we will never solve it by ignoring the problem.

https://video.foxnews.com/v/6118681856001#sp=show-clips

JK from Arkansas

Review TTG the comment posted above on the timestamp 30 December 2019 at 08:21 PM whereon the commentor includes this genius sentence:

“What this illustrates is the value of dedicated, trained guard personnel in churches, in schools and in other public places.”

Recognize the implications thereon TTG?

“In other public places” would seem to cover quite a bit of territory wouldn’t you agree, almost perhaps to include "the big ol' outside world"?

So what’s your recommendation, put a TSA person alongside each and every person who’s not a TSA person in their every instance?

As I said above TTG, it isn’t practical.

And besides TTG, Red Teams have amply demonstrated TSA’s regularly occurring ineptitude.

But then if you’ve another alternate for who is to watch the henhouse …

I am though TTG, in the end "happy" we're agreeing enforcing existing law being the best way of illustrating how the cow eats the cabbage but unfortunately, given how New Yorks shown how its synagogues gatherers have to simply wait the minutes when seconds are counting and Virginia's solution is to reinforce legislation against the law-abiding I fear we're sailing against the prevailing wind.

Oh wow TTG it's just suddenly dawned on me who may best function as the first line of defense - Let's put all the legislators up to act as human shields!

JK from Arkansas

Well optimax it's been sometime coming. Here's Henry Louis Gates:

"While anti-Semitism is generally on the wane in this country, it has been on the rise among black Americans. A recent survey finds not only that blacks are twice as likely as whites to hold anti-Semitic views but — significantly — that it is among the younger and more educated blacks that anti-Semitism is most pronounced."

Writing in 1992! Unfortunately (or not) Mr Gates' analysis appears in the NYT which, recognizing my IP quickly reacts to bar my access.

Maybe you can have worse luck than myself:

https://www.nytimes.com/1992/07/20/opinion/black-demagogues-and-pseudo-scholars.html

optimax

Somehow the attackers do not appear educated to me. Information has been spread about Jews being involved in the slave trade, which I'm sure is being taught in college.. I remember back in the 60s and 70s Blacks in Brooklyn protesting the deplorable conditions of their Jewish owned tenements. Of course, the Amish wouldn't fair any better if they turned urbanites or if the gomint built housing projects next to their farms in the name of diversity.

No luck for me reading the NYT.

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