Lesson for today - Shoot back at the nuts!

"Many Democrats and liberal media figures sneer at the “good guy with a gun” narrative when it comes to the debate over gun control, dismissing it as a myth clung to by Bible-thumping rednecks. Yet, if there was ever a single incident to remind us just how wrong they are, it’s the tragic church shooting that was thankfully stopped in its tracks on Sunday.

An armed intruder interrupted a morning service at West Freeway Church of Christ near Fort Worth, Texas, disrupting the ceremony and shooting several worshiping Christians. At least two people are dead as a result, including the suspect, and one injured.

But things could have been much, much worse. Two armed people attending the service intervened and shot the attacker in his tracks after just seconds, undoubtedly saving many lives."   Washington Examiner

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/thank-the-second-amendment-texas-church-shooting-stopped-in-its-tracks-by-armed-hero

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"Hours after a knife-wielding man barged into a Hanukkah party in a New York suburb, stabbing five people, top officials condemned the crime as part of a disturbing trend. New York Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo called it "domestic terrorism," linking it to the recent spate of violence against Jewish people in New York.

Anti-Semitic attacks are on the rise around the country, leaving members of the Jewish community feeling frightened and unsafe. In New York City, anti-Semitic crimes have jumped 21 percent in the past year."  Washpost

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/acts-of-anti-semitism-are-on-the-rise-in-new-york-and-elsewhere-leaving-jewish-community-rattled/2019/12/29/f8c20578-2a7e-11ea-bcb3-ac6482c4a92f_story.html

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Well, pilgrims, the lesson contained in these two incidents seems clear to this old troglodyte.  These extremely orthodox Jewish folks were gathered together in their distinctive apparel to celebrate Hanukkah.  The door bell rings.  Someone goes to the door perhaps expecting another celebrant in side curls and funny hat.  Instead, there stood an African American man with a bushy beard and a big knife.  Unhappy with Jewish people for some reason, he proceeds to try to stab all present that he can reach and then flees into the street.

The same day down in Texas in a suburb of Ft. Worth, curiously called "White Settlement" another nut job suddenly produces a weapon from concealment and starts to shoot up the congregation.

Within seconds two congregants draw pistols and shoot him dead.end of attack.

It would seem to me that, however bad both incidents were, the second outcome is preferable.  N.B. that the New York killer was armed with a knife.  If any of the Jews had been armed with a gun this man could have been stopped before he got very far in his mad attack.

Think it over.  pl

Comments

[J]

The assailant in Texas was dropped instantly with a head-shot, and collapsed never knowing what hit him. Watching the video, as soon as the shooter shot his first and only victim, one of the parishioners dropped the shooter in quick fashion, it was a clean head-shot.

The attack in NY, as a result some of the congregation are now open carrying assault rifles to protect their neighborhoods and congregations.

The governor of NY Gov. Cuomo paid the Rabbi a visit, which had the community outraged especially what Cuomo did signing a stupid piece of legislation by the NY Legislature a few weeks earlier that now puts the entire state of New York and every one of its citizens in physical jeopardy. Needless to say a lot of Orthodox are outraged at Cuomo and the NY state legislature as a result.

See:
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/featured/1814973/watch-ny-gov-cuomo-visits-rabbi-rottenbergs-house-but-he-just-signed-bail-reform.html

https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/1811143/utter-insanity-starting-jan-1st-ny-bail-reform-will-allow-most-criminals-to-walk-free-read-the-list-of-crimes.html

[Diana C]

The long, long history of anti-semitism continues. There was a long history of Christians holding hatred for the Jews, blaming them for the death of Christ on the cross. Hitler grew up hating them for other reasons that only his demented mind could explain.

I cannot have gun because of my very poor eyesight. But I will always welcome anyone who can carry a gun legally at any event, religious or otherwise, that I may attend, unless of course, the person is a nutcase wanting to cause mayhem.

Thank heavens for the men in Texas with their guns. I hope they catch the knife-wielding idiot who attacked earlier.

Those who want to get rid of the Second Amendment rights should be assigned to take a class on the Revolutionary War. Where would we be now if armed citizens had not risen up against the might of what was most likely the strongest army in the world at that time? It was an amazing thing that was accomplished by armed citizens.

[Bill H]

I was engaged in a discussion about arming teachers in schools and one argument against it went that when the police enter the school they would not know who to shoot. Now, they simply shoot the guy with the gun, but if teachers are armed, they would have to hold fire and if the "guy with the gun" turned out to be the bad guy they would get shot. Therefor, arming teachers would endanger the police.

Then someone pointed out that if teachers were armed then when police entered the school they would not have to fire at all, because the armed teachers would have shot the bad guy before the police got there, which seemed like a valid argument to me.

Then someone said that the armed teachers would shoot each other and the police instead of the bad guy, which seemed to me like a stupid argument. The Texas church incident seems to validate my point of view.

[divadab]

Gunman shot two people before he was shot. Watch the video:

https://nypost.com/2019/12/30/texas-man-jack-wilson-identified-as-hero-who-shot-gunman-inside-church/

Three shots in short order - amazing how quickly and accurately volunteer Jack Wilson took down the gunman - and only one shot! (why waste more on scum like that....?)

[Vegetius]

Throughout the long, long history of anti-Semitism, the same grievances against Jews are repeated over and over by different people in different places and different times. Almost like a pattern. Yet Jews dismiss all of this as irrationality at best, insanity at worst.

One would think that with their own walled ethnostate established in Palestine, Jews would be hurrying to get away from all these crazy people.

Instead, they seem unable to do anything but exactly what produces this all of this 'insanity'. Like demanding the goyim protect their own crazy religious practices at taxpayer expense while simultaneously whining about gun control.

[Diana C]

As a retired public high school teacher, my argument against allowing teachers to be armed arises from my experience during decades of working with other teachers in many different buildings.

I would not put my faith in many, if any, of the public high school teachers I knew. I thought many of them, especially the younger teachers, were a little "spacey." I just wouldn't trust them to keep their guns in a safe place and safe from the possibility that students could get their hands on them.

It might have been a different thing in the schools when I first began teaching. At that time, a teacher was assigned one classroom. That classroom served as his/her office on his/her "planning" hour. The students came into that classroom, and it was the teacher's domain. At that time, I had a key to my classroom and to the desk in that classroom.

At the end of my career, I was assigned to a desk in a room where other teachers were also assigned to stay during their planning periods. My class rooms for teaching were scattered around the building. Therefore, a teacher with a gun would have to be carrying that gun around the building much of the time to get to different classrooms and to the area for which he or she was assigned for planning. To me that makes for a dangerous situation. Have you ever walked through the hallways of a large public school during the break when students are moving from one class to the next? A student with the will could easily follow a teacher who might be carrying a gun and overpower that teacher to get the gun.

I was, except for my freshman students, usually smaller than many of the sophomores, and mostly all the juniors and seniors.

I most definitely would not have trusted many of the teachers on the staff to carry a gun into the building, and I believe most teachers would not have wanted that responsibility.

I think the stronger argument would be to disallow entrance now into public schools unless each and every person must pass through a screening such as those at airports. Doors accessing the outside at any point in the building should be equipped or manned in some way to screen the people using them. But that rule would cause problems now because many large high schools have "open" lunch hours when older students with cars can leave the campus during lunch.

Where I last taught, all high schools had an assigned police officer working in the building. Ours was very good at getting to know the students. This was not easy, as there were at least 1,500 of them. He soon learned which of those students were troubled, as the unruly students were often sent to his office instead of to the principal's office--or were sent there by the principal himself.

I worked in the district that included Columbine High School. When I moved into that district, I had to do my time as a substitute before being offered a full-time contract. I substituted several times at Columbine before I was granted a full-time contract at a high school across the county from Columbine. For all the news reports about how much everyone loved the principal there, I knew it was because he ran a very relaxed attitude about discipline. Students were leaving the building and coming back into the building at all times. It's no wonder that the ONE teacher who warned about those boys was not taken seriously. Even the police department had been warned about those boys by the mother of a boy who had once been part of their circle, so to speak.

The school was in a more affluent part of the county. The attitude seemed to be that these kids were "better" than those at other schools in the district, I think, because they were kids of "privilege." Some kids of privilege are wonderful kinds; some kids of privilege can become killers. It's true no matter what "class" students belong to.

A smaller and, especially a more rural, school could possibly allow an armed teacher or two in the building. Those are places where everyone knows everyone else more intimately. they know the students' parents and know each student's personality.

But those have not been, in most cases, the type of schools where these horrible events have occurred.

That being said, I know that no place is exempt from having an unhinged person in its midst.

I never felt frightened in the high school where I completed my teaching career. There were students I did not particularly like, but most of them were students whose parents obviously were not involved in their children's live and gave them free range to do what they wanted on their free time. And those same parents were often the first to blame the teachers and the schools when their child did something wrong. A good administrative staff can handle those parents simply by having firm rules regarding acceptable behavior in the building that ALL students and adults must follow. Having that assigned police officer in each building was also a very good thing. It's now very common in my state.

[Jack]

What’s the best firearm for self-protection?

[Upstate NY'er]

Disarmed NY brings to mind:
People get the government they deserve.
They elected and re-elected that Cuomo douchebag.

[Eadwacer]

Here's one essay that discusses some of the issues.
http://www.stonekettle.com/2018/03/bang-bang-crazy-part-13-stand-and-teach.html

[PeterVE]

The problem is not the well trained gun owners, such as the volunteer security men at the church. The problem is the vastly larger group of idiots who own guns and have no idea how to use or store them.

[turcopolier]

Peter VE

Those who fear guns are timid souls who want Daddy or Mommy to take care of them. Elora is a sissy who loves governments.

[srw]

Read that the security man at the church was a retired FBI agent. Good for him. As for the NY knife wielding incident, maybe we should be glad for NY's strict gun laws. It would have been a massacre if the knife wielder had a gun.

[The Twisted Genius]

The congregant who shot the shooter in Texas was not only a retired FBI agent, but he was on duty as a guard during the service. He did not have his nose buried in his prayer book. He was alert and prepared to react, like a sentinel goose. I watched a video of the shooting, that guard calmly and quickly fired aimed shots across the length of the pews. Two congregants were shot by the trench coated shooter while they were trying to draw their concealed weapons. They were too busy worshiping. What this illustrates is the value of dedicated, trained guard personnel in churches, in schools and in other public places. Armed people not paying attention and engaged in other activities are of limited value at best.

[Artemesia]

Hitler grew up hating them for other reasons that only his demented mind could explain.

Wrong on the facts, Diana C, as Hitler explained in Mein Kampf: he, like all Germans (Austrians) of his era were taught not to disrespect the Jewish religion. He further explains that later, as he observed behavior of (mostly immigrant / Eastern European) Jews in Vienna, he and others including Vladimir Jabotinsky, Arthur Ruppin and Max Nordau, three of Zionism's primary ideologues, came to consider them "degenerated."

A larger question is why the instant reductio ad Hitlerum, and if in tracing the reasons for that automatic reaction one realizes that "Hitler is ever-present in the media," then you have to ask why that is so, two generations removed from those events. Why not point to present-day evil-doers in order to halt their wicked deeds, rather than dissipate moral outrage on a long-dead, impotent totemic figure?

PS The "outbreak" of antisemitic acts in New York City was a topic of conversation on C Span this morning. One audience member who lives in the area recounted the long-simmering resentments of non-Jews in the region, over the practice of Orthodox Jews deploying their significant wealth to take over school boards and undermining the school systems that non-Jewish taxpayers are forced to subsidize. Monsey is not that far from Kyrias Joel, a Jewish city-within-a-city, that has the state's highest rate of poverty, reliance on Medicaid, and unemployment; that makes demands on the surrounding region's schools and other systems but pays far less than its fair share in taxes, and has assured its non-Jewish neighbors that if they challenge Jewish preferences, the Jews will take them to court.

This is not antisemitism, this is opposition to the actions of a group that is negatively impacting the rights and quality of life of surrounding polities.
When customary forms of opposition are curtailed, as is occurring with constraints on freedom of speech where Jews, Israel and zionism are concerned, the Toothpaste-tube rule dictates that an unpleasant eruption is inevitable.

[ambrit]

One you know how to use properly.

[Terry]

When I was 14 my dad heard some shooting going on and decided to walk over to see what was going on. A couple of hours later when it started getting dark mom said to take the car, go see what was going on and take a gun. I grabbed the .22 rifle and was heading out the door and she said “What are you doing with that, take the .3030”. Turns out it was an old friend of dads and they were just chatting. Dad didn’t even blink when he saw the rifle.

Later that fall I dropped a deer running full out in heavy brush a good 100 yards out, right through the heart. I had been shooting for years by that point.

Nothing like the farm life for a great education. I wish we had training programs as part of school curriculum so people could see it as the tool it is, learn to use it responsibly and not see it as something incredibly frightening. Life experiences today all too often aren’t creating the type of people we need for our Republic.

[vig]

fascinating. thanks for the link, Eadwacer.

[turcopolier]

ambrit

Two hours at a range wit a competent instructor is all you need for home defens.

[turcopolier]

Elota Danan

You are a sheep waiting to be slaughtered.

[turcopolier]

srw

Will you think that when the knife wielder comes to your door?

[turcopolier]

TTG

You have constructed a straw man situation in which citizens are incapable of defending themselve. Do you really want to say that?

[Fred]

Artemesia,

"... deploying their significant wealth to take over school boards and undermining the school systems..."
I believe the Reverend Jessee Jackson made that complaint about money and minority group's influence in his presidential race in the '80s. Needless to say he didn't fare to well. Tom Wolfe did a much better job on the issue in "Radical Chic & Mau-Mauing the Flak Catchers". Eddie Murphy did a wonderful persormance as Jackson back with SNL was actually relevant. https://vimeo.com/139091477

"This is not antisemitism, this is opposition to the actions of a group that is negatively impacting the rights and quality of life of surrounding polities."

So taking a machete into a synagogue and attacking people with it is "opposition ot actions of a group negatively impacting rights and quality of life"? That's a new take on things.

[Fred]

Diana,

"...having firm rules regarding acceptable behavior in the building that ALL students and adults must follow."

Diana, Diana, when will you get with the times? Have you put all the records of suspensions and expulsions into a spreadsheet and sorted by personally identifiable factors - like race? Why you'll be shocked to find that individuals have no agency and are not responsible for their conduct. Worse still, they are punished by race! It's a great conclusion reached by believers of the new orthodoxy founded on cultural marxism. It is the very thing that was in place for years in Broward County Florida, where the Broward Superintendent Robert Runcie had implemented the great new idea of "restorative justice". It's a key component of the tragedy that unfolded at Parkland High School.

The state put together a fine report, with suggestions like yours. Turn all schools into de-facto prisons because student's are presumed to be inherently untrustworthy. They are also "target rich environments" for crazies who can expect massive media coverage and little resistance to their attacks. But back to the report, I suggest starting with chapter 8.
"BCPS documented nearly 70 incidents involving Cruz in its incident-based computer system. BCPS’s disciplinary referal system (DMS) also contained nearly 55 school incidents involving Cruz."
http://www.fdle.state.fl.us/MSDHS/CommissionReport.pdf

California is setting the groundwork for repetition with SB 419.

When I went to high school in Key West we had an open campus where students could leave at lunch and return to class. The losers didn't come back, at least one bus driver could have been an inspiration for the one shown on "The Simpsons", and the dopers liked to get high at the back on the ride in from Big Coppet Key. (Incidentally the fire chief got arrested out front one day in '76 for selling marijuana out of his official vehicle, a great victory for the new DEA!) When the family was transfered to Naples I spent the final two years at Naples High School. It was neither open campus nor full of the same colorful characters. They did have JROTC course, which managed to teach some close order drill, had members who marched in multiple city parades and performed the flag ceremony at football games and even fielded a rifle team. There weren't any shootings, metal detectors nor school lockdown drills. There weren't any in Key West either.

[vig]

She, as far as the aka goes, doesn't seem to be American, in other words she may not be sufficiently prepared to shoot or be shot. ...

You always carried to mass? Or only from a certain time on?

[The Twisted Genius]

I didn't construct a thing. That's what happened. I'll add that the retired FBI agent fired only one carefully and calmly aimed shot with a revolver. He was mindful of not shooting innocents. All those other congregants pulling their pistols probably did not have the calmness of the FBI agent. They would have eventually dropped the gunman but could very well have taken out several of their fellow congregants in the process.