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22 December 2019

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turcopolier

ED

FB Ali may want to advise you on this.

blue peacock

FB Ali

I hope the situation is the same today as in 2016 and such a procession could take place.

I just read that a Pakistani professor has been sentenced to death under the blasphemy law.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/12/pakistani-academic-junaid-hafeez-sentenced-death-blasphemy-191221091139428.html

A court in Pakistan has convicted a university lecturer of blasphemy and sentenced him to death in a case rights groups have long cited as emblematic of fair trial concerns in such prosecutions in the country.

Junaid Hafeez, a lecturer at the Bahauddin Zakariya University in the central Pakistani city of Multan, was accused of having insulted Islam's Prophet Muhammad and its holy book, the Quran, verbally and on Facebook in 2013.

Factotum

OFF TOPIC - TRAVEL TALK: Been that route now several times from Kashgar over to Gilgit or Lahore to Tashkurgan. The route has been improved immensely and I suspect even the KKH has now been smoothed out and has lost all its former drama as the Chinese turn it into an all-weather highway and mow down the tiny villages in the way to make it more of a straight shot to Pakistani Indian Ocean ports.

Hunza Valley is one of the most stunning places on the planet and worth several days to absorb it. If you can get all the way down to Lahore as well, you will not be disappointed.

Yes, women are much more "free" in public than the media presents - be conservative, don't draw attention and you can soon get a feel for how much more you want to explore on your own. Our guide explained, after arriving in a long linen sack, western women are not expected to dress the same as Pakistani women.

During my first days sitting in our Lahore Hotel (former Hitlon - now locally owned) bakery and cafe I watched young Pakistani women drive up in their SUV's wearing tight jeans and going in to pick up decorated birthday cakes for their children - while a few blocks away near the market areas one saw the full, full, full body coverage of women walking in groups, but often with dainty jeweled sandals peeking out under their heavy long hems.

The Serena hotel chain were very nice, but there is also a state run hotel/motel chain in this area that is very adequate. Plenty of info on the standard travel website where you can get good advice. English was the language of the British Empire not all that long ago, so you still find a lot of English signage, shops road signs, and use as a secondary language in most public places. As well as an accessible language by most educated or traveled locals.

It is not a country were one feels frozen out not knowing Urdu. I often find former British colonies to be more "British" in manners, language and ritual than perhaps one finds in England itself these days. Cricket in dress whites and tea at three are stll valued and ubiquitous, as well as polo, but they did invent polo in Pakistan so they get owners rights on that one.

If you want to go more in depth into the mountains or smaller villages, I would recommend a local guide engaged at a trusted hotel. Or doing this whole trip in a small tour group - it is intense country so it helps to have someone smooth the way. Roads and driving is very treacherous - but the skills of the drivers in roads filled with bathtub sized pot holes, tuk tuks, donkeys and passenger-packed Toyota HiLo trucks, and now the huge Chinese "Belt traffic on the KKH.

The Pakistani trucks are lavishly decorated and again are part of the very unique color and vibrancy one finds only in Pakistan. Chinese trucks on the other hand now sharing these back roads are dour and serious.

Tourists are welcome - it is part of their economy. Plus they like the vote of confidence tourism represents that travelers are willing to look past the more lurid headlines this country also seems to generate. I hope you have a wonderful time - engage it on so many, many levels as its history is almost endless - one of the few sites on the planet that experienced the spontaneous development of civilization - in the Indus Valley.

FB Ali

ED,

Re your query, I'm afraid I'm out of touch with current conditions in Pakistan. I will pass on your query to someone able to answer it, and will forward the answer to you.

blue peacock

You should use a reputable operator to explore the mountain regions. There are many adventure travel companies and I'm sure you will find one with Spanish language guides. While you'll pay more, they take the headache out of logistics and since they've been running tours in the region for many years they would likely have established good relations with the local communities.

I would highly recommend Pakistan's Hunza Valley and the Karakoram ranges.

https://www.keadventure.com/holidays/pakistan-trekking-hunza-shimshal-karakoram-rush-lake

Another is a trip to Inner Dolpo in Nepal.

https://www.keadventure.com/holidays/nepal-trekking-dolpo-shey-gompa

Babak Makkinejad

Elora Danan

I would never ever take the risk of traveling in Pakistan. Not now. 40 years ago, before Arabization of Islam, one could travel there safely, no longer.

The only safe places to travel in the Muslim world are now those within the Old Seljuk boundaries: Iran, Azerbaijan, Lebanon, Turkey. Everywhere else is a Salfi wreck, specially for non-Sunni.

In terms of density of noteworthy historical sites, I would recommend Iran and Lebanon. A Spaniard, will feel quite at home in Iran, I should think.

Factotum

The hotel our small (4 persons) tour group used in Lahore was the former Hilton, now part of the Avari chain - but it shows how nice some of the older, local chain hotels can be in Pakistan. It is in a great location on the Grand Trunk Road, across from a gorgeous park and close to many thriving older local establishments and restaurants: https://www.avarilahore.com

Babak Makkinejad

In 1936, no one, and I mean no one, had any understanding of the political philosophies of Fascism, Communism, Socialism, Free Market Liberalism etc. That knowledge did not exist. What existed was various human passions that were trying to gain Power to humiliate those who had opposing ideas. It was analogous to the 30-Year War or the War Between States, and equally "religious".
Franco ended the latest Spanish Civil War, one of many. As a foreigner, I am curious to know why Spaniards, over almost 2 centuries, chose to war among themselves; a very Arabian behavior.

turcopolier

ED

The turcopolier rejoices that you have found meaning in your life through SST. Feliz Navidad. Sa'iid Eid al-Milad.

A.I.S.

My 101 on how civil wars happen:

1rst Step: Something breaks. Resources becomes scarcer.
2nd Step: Competition for resources increases, people enter coalitions to aquire these resources.
3rd step: Due to more competition, resources get destroyed or wrongly allocated which further increases resource scarcity
4rd step: Coalition fighting becomes more intense. Due to lower odds of defection, coalitions predominantly based on exclusive shared ethnicity, exclusive shared religion and/or exclusive shared social class dominate.
5rd step: General degradation. Increase of bridge burning behaviour to show you fealty to your coalition, outright civil war.

Can happens in Spain, can happen in Pakistan, can happen in Russia, can happen everywhere. It is part of why I, despite being a leftist, am a fairly strong immigration restrictionist. The more homogenous a country is the less bad the civil wars get.

Babak Makkinejad

War of the Roses?
The War Between the States?
Somalia?
Libya?
I do not agree with your model.

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