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29 November 2019

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turcopolier

Elora Danan

Little marxists are children of God who have gone badly astray.

Factotum

When Y2K threatened the end of modern civilization, I headed to Italy for a possible overnight return to the 16th Century. Worst that happened after all that survivalist hysteria, was they stopped the Italian trains for an hour to check all systems. Yet i thought if the lights went out all over the world permanently, I would take my chances in a Neo-Renaissance Italy: Candlelight, art, books, fine architecture, savoring the birth of Italian cuisine and robust conversation.

Serge

Exclusive mainstream focus on the climate change doomsday fantasies also takes attention away from the actual environmental catastrophes of our time:the plastic trash everywhere both on land and sea with the third world in particular wallowing in plastic, something unheard of 2 generations ago;pesticide extermination of insects(in particular bees) etc. Also creates political gridlock where any discussion on these issues becomes tainted with inane arguments over global warming.Sorry, it’s global climate change now. When I was a kid not very long ago the hysteria was over the hole in the ozone killing us all. I havent heard about this hole in at least 15 years.

Lamar Ovray

All AGW hysteria and scholarly discourse is diversion. The finite, plentiful hydrocarbons upon which we blame warming WILL become scarce, as will people.

Factotum

California Chumash burned the hills periodically, but never evolved even after thousands of years into an agrarian society - they remained hunter-gatherers. I think it was easier to hunt animals when the protective brush was cleared.

Leith

Serge - Agreed!

The plastic & other garbage in the Pacific Convergence Zone is now bigger than France or Texas. And National Geographic says now there is one building in the Atlantic stretching from the Virginia littoral to the Canary Islands.

Rick Merlotti

Check out Tony Heller's Youtube channel for excellent rebuttals to climate alarmism.

Effinghell

That letter,I believe of Canadian origins , has been investigated, the results are most amusing.

different clue

We could call it the Great Unpleasantness.

different clue

Clinton? Really? Clinton 2020?

Clinton created her own opposition last election. She repelled just enough people on just enough critical margins into voting for Trump that Trump won the Electoral College votes in several key MidWestern "Brexit" states. I was proud to be one of those "Bitter Berners for Trump" who helped make a difference that made a difference here in Michigan.

different clue

The reason you haven't heard about it lately is because its mono-single cause . . . Freon-type gases drifting up to the ozone layer . . . was understood and globally stamped out by stamping out the production and use of Freons, as per the Montreal Protocol.
https://www.airhawkac.com/montreal-protocol-and-the-phaseout-of-r22/

Because of that counter-Freon stampout-phaseout . . . the ozone layer has been regaining ozone and the hole has been filling back in. And that is why we haven't heard about this hole in at least 15 years.

I have read recently that certain "unknown" black market jackals in China ( where else but?) have been making and selling bootleg Freons to willing buyers. Along with all the fentanyl , carfentanyl, etc. If enough of them do enough of that for long enough, then we will start hearing about the Ozone Hole 2.0 all over again.

different clue

Will the earth survive and evolve without us? Why yes, yes it will. The earth got along fine before it met us, it will get along fine when we're gone.

But will us survive and evolve without us? No, us won't. Because if us disappear, then us won't be here to survive and evolve with.

And my narrow selfish concern is with us, the survival of us and the ongoing evolution of us.

From an us-eye-view, we have burned more than a little bit of carbon. And we are currently planning to burn more than a little bit more. Also we are causing the release of enough NOXes and methane and whatever-that-computer-chip-manufacturing cleaning solvent is to add meaningfully more to the earth-surfasphere heat retention.

The warming is not alleged. It is real. You are seeing it in animal ranges moving southward. We are seeing it in high latitude sea ice not forming as before and also many glaciers and ice-cap edges melting and retreating some.

The scare mongering is also real. And it becomes more dangerous than the warming when it clouds dispassionate analysis of the problem and the consideration of realistic and applicable solutions. And when it reaches the point of creating its own equal and opposite reaction of opposition to the scaremongering extending to opposition to recognition of the problem itself, then it becomes more dangerous than the warming itself by virtue of immunizing society against taking heed and taking steps to counter the sky-heater gas-releases.

Can it be man-reversed? Yes, if we man-reverse it before enough heat sinks into the high latitude land and sea to thaw all the permafrost and release all the methane clathrates. If the permafrost permathaws and the clathrates boil up out of the shallow Arctic sea-zones, then a blind nature will take over and the Big Heatup will just roll merrily along.

What to do? Simple. Lower CO2 and NOX and methane and computer-chip-cleaner-solvent emissions while raising plant-driven bio-suckdown and bio-fixation of aerial CO2.

How to do it? Very difficult and complex, especially in today's multi-team Buz Kashi politicultural atmosphere. Step one would be to separate the scare mongering from the dispassionate analysis. Step two would be for people firmly anchored in the head-space of dispassionate analysis to analyze every "solution" proposed so far and every "solution" thinkable-up, and subject them to a plausibility and feasibility test. Step three would be to start applying the socially non-disruptive or least-disruptive steps and see if we can see a measurable reduction of aerial levels of the several skyheater gases. And step four would be to keep applying and extending the non-disruptive or least disruptive and keep riding the skyheater gasload back down to comfort-maintaining levels.

There is no place in any of that for the New Green Deal. That was launched to advance a Theory Of Change having nothing more to do with Global De-Warming other than to use it as a handy skyhook to hand the GND Theory Of Change on.

A global de-warming plan would have to focus on the narrow goal of returning the skyheater gasload back to start-of-the-industrial-revolution levels. It would have to focus on re-balancing the carbon cycle, re-balancing the nitrogen cycle, suppressing and containing methane emissions, etc. The pursuit of social justice will have to fall by the wayside. Future generations can pursue it if they want to, once the survival of future generations has been assured, or at least highly likelihooded.

different clue

Ten hundred is a thousand. If I understand you correctly to mean "thousands of years" . . . there are some trees in the West which have been alive for several thousand years and whose tree rings can be read going back that far.

And tree-beams from ancient structures in the Southwest can have tree ring sequences compared to more-recently-killed-trees' sequences of tree rings. If the "youngest rings" of a long dead tree align exactly with the "oldest rings of a recently dead tree, dendrochronologists think they can plausibly consider the two trees to be overlapping in time at those two sets of exactly matched tree rings. And they then read the older tree's rings backwards-inwards from there.

different clue

James Hansen in his book Storms Of My Grandchildren writes about the need for nuclear power and the experimental existence of safer kinds of nuclear power than the mainstream establishment light water reactors we mostly have now. He admits to being just a layman who is making his best effort in the field of nuclear understanding. But I thought those several pages in the middle of the book were worth reading.

NASA research scientist ( retired) James Hansen strongly supports nuclear power.

English Outsider


A method of reversing desertification, or maybe semi-desertification, is summarised here -

https://ourworld.unu.edu/en/reversing-desertification-with-livestock

Interestingly he used battlefield planning to develop his method.

There's also the "Zai" technique developed and taught by a Burkina Faso farmer, Yacouba Sawadogo. Pits and compost.


Factotum

Google "debunking ice core samples" and one finds the following:

CO2 lags temperature
"An article in Science magazine illustrated that a rise in carbon dioxide did not precede a rise in temperatures, but actually lagged behind temperature rises by 200 to 1000 years. A rise in carbon dioxide levels could not have caused a rise in temperature if it followed the temperature." (Joe Barton)

English Outsider


Colonel - I think we're covered all ways.

If the IPCC is wrong we have several hundred years of top quality coal to go at.  If right, the last warm period we had, the Mediaeval, we could grow grapes quite far North.  And if they're really right Westminster will get submerged, though Greta says ten years and I'm not sure we ought to wait that long.

Babak Makkinejad

All ages of man have been Ages of Belief, including the age of that Zealot Christian Heresy called Marxism. Empirical & Skeptical men are never welcomed in any human society.

Babak Makkinejad

That isclikely true in rich capitalust West. We made a lot of money from Y2K here in US.

Plastics are a wonderful material, Human Nature is not.

guidoamm

You should buy a tract of beach outside Rome then.

I grew up in the town of Fregene outside of Rome. In that area, the sea has been retreating since I was a kid.

guidoamm

Nobody denies that climate changes. It, in fact, is the primary reason we exist at all.

There is no problem whatsoever with climate change and, other than trying to adapt, there is little we can do about it.

That is not to say we are not polluting our environment. Indeed we are.

It is not reasonable however to conflate pollution with climate change.

Climate is one of the most complex systems known to man. Anyone with a basic grasp of arithmetic knows that to reduce the evolution of a complex system to one variable, is, at best, arithmetically unsound and, at worst, intellectually dishonest. Particularly when the time scale is counted in eons.

Other than that however, how can anyone not question the ostensible nobility of politicians?

In the past 40 years, we have been constantly told that we need to lower interest rates because our economies need spurring. In the same breath however, we are told that economic activity is causing climate change so we need to tax business, industry and individuals.

What good does it do then to lower interest rates so aggressively?

Allow me to offer a side, but related, note on pollution here.

What is the sense in keeping alive companies that should go bankrupt?

Take a behemoth like General Motors. Here is a company that has been losing money on the sale of every single one of their core products; cars.

Political expedience however calls for keeping GM alive and in business.

Clearly however, selling more vehicles is not a viable solution for GM that for many years was making up the loss by providing financing. Financing that was used to sell more vehicle on which they lose money.

If you want to begin to understand our pollution problem, you would do worse than to start by looking at monetary policy.

That is because if interest rates were not lowered artificially, governments would not be allowed to take such a cavalier attitude towards expedient and frivolous expenditures.

Climate change is not a problem. It is at best a challenge.

The fiscal well being of the state however is what should concern us here. It is the fiscal impasse we find ourselves in that is driving aberrant policy of which Global Warming is but one of the many bastard children.

g

guidoamm

And, I am sorry, but.... to discount the role of the sun in all this....?

That flies in the face of all evidence accumulated in the short time man has been on this earth.

Global Warming is, to be charitable, an unsound theory.

To base fiscal and economic policies based on unsound theories is ignorant.

Or, maybe, it is criminal.

You choose.

LessMore

I've read that one thing the last two mass shooters had in common was their concerns about the environment. I regret I don't have the original link though if you can stand the lefty group think I found an article here that at least supports that from the shooter manifestos ( https://earther.gizmodo.com/how-climate-change-is-becoming-a-deadly-part-of-white-n-1837010929 )

I suspect the hysteria is to keep the populace malleable. Many years ago I read that junkscience.com was started by the tobacco companies to spread uncertainty about Science itself. Fear prevents rational thought and argument at least until one becomes numb. It also sells eyeballs so whether you consider it a planned conspiracy or unplanned exploitation by the 4th estate it doesn't really matter. The effectiveness is outlined nicely by Colonel Lang. I would also add the preparation for entering WWII, though no Germans were interred to my knowledge, there were graphic pictures, seeds of distrust, and even Bugs Bunny fought the German menace on the big screen. It should also be noted that while the Japanese on the West Coast were subject to internment and seizure (their property sold to mafia on the cheap), the ones in Hawaii weren't so afflicted. Even if you believed the Congress, and the "fears of the people", why didn't they apply that to Hawaii, home of a Naval base of some import..

It seems that in order to convince people of some "good" causes and others of some financial interests we have undermined science and reason and must suffer that fate of having a population driven by fear (job, financial, social) and stress. Luckily, my millennial family members have their cell phones to retreat into (only said half in jest). I'm not sure how, given the information they are overloaded with every day, and the training from school, video games, and our corporate media we could expect them not to be delusional about any number of subjects. Climate is perfect in that regard because it is so complicated and interdependent that it is impossible to prove or disprove.

Babak Makkinejad

Fear is also the Foremost enemy of Freedom.

I think that Trust in US has declined and Fear has increased over the last 70 years and Freedom suffered.

Fred

Boomer,

AOC hasn't written a book yet and I haven't seen her on the honorarium circuit. I think she desires the power and publicity; only then will she think of cashing in.

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