Burn CIA and FBI to the ground? Start over?

IMO there is a lot of evidence of incompetence and malfeasance in the leadership of the 17 agencies of the Intelligence Community and the Federal Bureau of Investigation.  A partial list of failures and misdeeds:

1.  They failed to predict the collapse of the USSR.  There was a lot of scholarship on the subject before the event and individual analysts were sure that the end was approaching for the Soviet government but the agencies refused to believe that such a thing could happen.  Why?  The IC accepted the insistence of the elected government of the US that history would continue in a straight line forever with concomitant profits for industry.

2.  They failed to predict 9/11. This failure was not "failing to connect  the dots."  It was largely a failure to run clandestine HUMINT collection operations well enough to know what al-Qa'ida was up to in detail.  This was not an impossible task.  The IC was offered the means of penetration of the group and refused to take the risk of disclosure with subsequent damage to executives careers even though it was well understood how dangerous AQ was after the East Africa bombings.

3. They failed to infiltrate Al-Qa'ida before 9/11.  Once again, this was not an impossible task. I could tell you how, but ...

4. The FBI has repeatedly participated in DoJ efforts to "frame" persons charged in federal courts.  They helped DoJ prosecutors do that to Senator Ted Stevens of Alaska.  To my certain and personal knowledge from my work as a consultant to the federal courts and an expert witness in national security cases the FBI/DoJ have repeatedly withheld evidence from the discovery process in which security cleared defense attorneys were due this knowledge,  I have seen the FBI bribe witnesses to testify against defendants on what amounted to a contingency basis, i.e., no conviction, no fee.

5.  And then there is the current murky situation concerning the leaders of the IC; Brennan, Clapper etc., and the leaders of the FBI.  IMO it is clear that whatever they did exactly, they aligned themselves against Candidate/President elect Trump.

There are many, many more examples but time and space available here must limit my recitation of these issues.

Tell me, pilgrims, why should we put up with such nonsense?  Why should we pay the leaders of these agencies for the privilege of  having them abuse us? We are  free men and women. Let us send these swine to their just deserts in a world where they have to work hard for whatever money they earn.

TTG and I are agreed that the very first thing to do is strip CIA of whatever role they still have in the world of Covert Action.  CA includes all measures short of war but more violent than diplomacy that are taken to implement legal US foreign policy.  The CIA should not have this mission, one they have shared with the armed forces since 9/11.  CIA's present mission is to serve as the main US Clandestine Service, backed up by the military.  In this role they are supposed to recruit foreigners to spy for us but also to run a large part of CA.   It is obvious to anyone who has watched them try to do that over many decades that they simply lack the skills needed.  Watching them try, is like watching a monkey try to f---k a football.  In their efforts to comply with this mission the civilian leadership of CIA hire people who once were soldiers but who sought other employment and they also borrow junior soldiers from Army Special Forces.  Why not cut out the "middle man" in the process and have the military run CA?

An argument can be made that the FBI, the spawn of J. Edgar Hoover's peculiar brain (he amassed dossiers on US politicians in order to control them) and the CIA an artifact of the Cold War (which ALWAYS had too much power) should simply be torn down as institutions and replaced with other government bodies more reflective of our collective nation values.

The country needs a police agency that obeys the law.  The country needs a small agency to conduct strategic level penetrations of important foreign threats.

Should existing structures like the US Marshal's Service and/or DIA be given the missions of the CIA and FBI or should altogether new groups be constructed with better controls inflicted on them?

I look forward to the discussion.   pl

Comments

[The Twisted Genius]

Among other things, she said she did not like the idea of her husband working with such a pack of liars and swindlers. She told them she never liked them and never will. She left them speechless. The spouses weekend was cancelled for the next several runnings of the course.

[Rick Merlotti]

From a mere citizen of our battered Republic, no expertise in intelligence work other than distrusting everything the Borg wants me to believe, I say huzzah to you sir. As others said, the rot infects all society in interlocking, Byzantine knots. But the I.C. is a good place to start. After all, no reforms will matter if we let these maniacs pull us into thermonuclear extinction. Priorities.

[turcopolier]

TTG
Did she want you to leave the Army? That would never be forgiven

[turcopolier]

TTG

CIA always used our people for sushi and often abandoned them on some god damned hilltop surrounded by the enemy whenever they were inconvenient. This was true before 9/11.

[Sam]

No organization is immune from the effects of men and women with huge egos and a lust for power---not the elected government institutions, the government bureaucracy, the military, or even the church. One consolation throughout this attempted "coup" upon Trump has been the fact that the full weight of the military is not behind this. What happens if our foreign intelligence is handled by the military and it becomes corrupt? Who is to stop them?

[The Twisted Genius]

I was leaving the Active Army to take the MICECP position at the time. I wasn't alone in my class. I never regretted the decision. It was as a civilian Army case officer that I served in the SMU. I had the best of both worlds and I was still in the Reserves as required by Army MICECP.

[turcopolier]

TTG

So, she felt free to insult these people even though you would continue to do the same work as they. Remarkable.

[turcopolier]

Sam
Who is to stop them now? Suggestion for reform?

[John Merryman]

Obviously they are not going quietly into the night. So the question becomes, how much they take with them and what other functions of society are in the same boat. Apparently much of the mainstream media and a fair number of the political class. At which point, the details start to fade and the issue goes to the bigger picture. Basically it's a large scab, slowly separating from the underlaying tissue and the question is whether it gets ripped off, or left to its own rate of decline. Necessarily those most able to affect change, are those most benefiting from the current situation, so the polarity has to be come more clear. Though given the various insurrections popping up around the world, this dynamic is speeding up.
Nature gives and takes.

[JP Billen]

Your point that military case officers have more experience and education than CIA types makes complete sense to me. I would expect nothing less. IMO the Yale preppies or similar spook nurseries that the CIA recruits from are NOT ready for foreign assignment no matter what the "farm" puts them through.

That should be self evident. Look at the predecessor of the CIA. I'm not a spook myself, but from what I understood the OSS was a mix of mostly military men, but also lawyers, diplomats, college professors, journalists, even a few foreign nationals, and what all. And they worked for the JCS.

Good for your SWMBO.

[JP Billen]

I never said anything about sophistication. And do not believe it.

And yes the DIA could set up a division to monitor politics and commerce in foreign countries. They'd be good at it. But why would they want to, don't they have enough on their plate? If you want to get rid of the CIA fine, but give those tasks along with budget to State, Treasury, and DoE.

[turcopolier]

JP Billen
I don't care who does the work so long as it is not the existing CIA. My wife would never have done anything like that. She long had a secret clearance as helper to an active case officer and was very good at it.

[turcopolier]

JP Billen

What is it you are congratulating TTG's wife for?

[Factotum]

Can we talk about what is so much at stake that those inside our government would plot against our system of government, just to ensure they get their hands on it?

'Power" is not the answer -- power to do what? Is it just money- hands on our own tax money? Ego. Is it a guy thing? Hanging on to nice house in, Foxhall, Bethesda or Spring Valley?

What drove this insider cabal, who already were at the peak of their power in this the most powerful nation on the planet, to plot this alleged coup?

[Christian J Chuba]

I totally agree. Another area where the CIA and other Intelligence agencies do great harm is in emasculating our MSM. I don't know how to solve it but this is the problem I see.

Unnamed Intelligence sources give info (leak) things to the MSM who eagerly gobble it up. This info follows a favorable bureaucratic narrative, they are never truly whistle blowing in nature. The makes our MSM trained seals less inclined to challenge the govt on security issues because they don't want to piss off their govt sources. To make matters worse they even hire these bureaucrats when they retire from their govt jobs.

I don't know how to fix this because leaks are already illegal and the fault lies with the MSM. It's not like we can legislate good journalism. I don't even want the govt to get involved in that.

[JerseyJeffersonian]

That's why the mass immigration; people who already know their place. Replace vexatious citizens with hot, hungry masses, wiping Their asses on the Constitution as they go.

[JP Billen]

For speaking her mind.

[rjj]

@ Power....What drove this insider cabal, who already were at the peak of their power...

hardwiring .... the human condition

think agency -- questing: it's the getting that drives H.sapiens ...in all things. Nobody wants to find The Holy Grail. It would be a freaking liability. WTF would one do with it?

What's next?

Enough is too much of a good thing.

[prawnik]

If the Iron Law of Oligarchy and its corollary, The Iron Law of Institutions, are to be believed, any institution will eventually get taken over by entrenched interests, to the point where it can no longer be reformed, but must be disbanded.

[prawnik]

Keep in mind that access is the main currency in Washington. Leakers leak to journalists that they know will publish what the leakers wants published. News organizations that don't keep leakers happy get no leaks.

In addition, the IC and military can send a lot of lucrative business (e.g. recruitment ads) to favored news outlets.

[J]

I say burn both to the ground, and start over with a clean house.

1. Disassemble the CIA and transfer 'all' their 'stuff' to DIA, there it can be audited and put the assemblage of stuff into their proper categories. A new and shiny CIA (not called CIA anymore) can be built with the proper oversights to ensure that this crap we've witnessed the CIA doing, never ever happens again. HUMINT ONLY would the task for the new CIA, IMHO. Other types of operations would be handled elsewhere within DIA with the proper oversight (far away from the politics of things which was something the CIA never learned).

2. The entire DOJ needs to be re-tooled from its bottom brick, ridding itself of the termite infestation which is called politics. DOJ should be there to serve the states of the union's needs, not the states serving the DOJ which is currently the case. DOJ should be there to serve the needs of the states, period.

2a. The Marshal Service's skill sets need to be utilized even more than they currently are.

3. Counter-Intelligence operations should be handled exclusively by DIA and DIA's time-honored compartmentalization.

4. OPSEC, CSEP, COMSEC, handled co-operational by both DIA and NSA. NSA is currently drowning in a maze of data, that needs to change. NSA needs to be able to see sunlight, and can only be achieved with a working partnership with DIA.

Now I'll get off my little soapbox. The above is my personal opine. It's like an arse, everybody's got one.

[Babak Makkinejad]

The issue is one of education and acculturation: the English were considered by their contempoeary Continentals of 19th century to be exemplary in exhibiting the virtues of honesty & truthfulness.

[Eric Newhill]

Sir,
You're not going to like this. I think I can already hear you growling all the way from Virginia, but - run the government like a successful corporation. None of the secrecy, insubordination and subversive activity would be permitted in a successful company. President as CEO. Congress as Board of Directors and the people as shareholders. Judiciary as Legal & Compliance Dept.

Additionally...

...Pay congress people and the President substantially more so as to attract better talent away from the private sector and to decrease the temptation to seek graft. Limit terms. Eliminate all private campaign contributions. All candidates receive an equal amount of campaign funds from a public source. All television and radio stations must provide an equal amount of free airtime to the candidates. Debates to be much longer and much more frequent affairs and moderated by recognized experts in various fields (but experts with opposing views) instead of being a soundbite game moderated by dingbat news personalities.

Make it easier to fire government employees. Establish more intense and more frequent reviews of intelligence operations by Congress.

There are a few suggestions that I think might help.

[Vig]

I lean towards your wife vs TTP's. Makes a lot more sense.

But then, I didn't find your wife's decorations or whatever it was that alerted interest here although trying semi hard, other then the DAMES signal in the background of your outdoor citchen.

[Eric Newhill]

I should have included that I recognize that in govt there are no profit centers; only expense/cost, but I think that something called a "accomplishment center" could be implemented. This would have the various departments evaluated on how well they achieved policy directives and what level of general welfare they brought to the country.