Turn and face the strange* - TTG

*from David Bowie’s “Changes”

Keith Harbaugh recently posed the following question as a comment to my old post where, a few months ago, I confessed to being a latent SJW.

TTG, since you are 

a) a native New Englander, 

b) a Catholic, and 

c) have said in the past, I believe, words to the effect "I see no problem with immigration as long as it does not exceed the capacity of America to assimilate the incoming migrants", I invite you, if you are reading this comment made three months after your post above, to read and if you care to comment on, two articles discussing efforts, and results, of something called "Catholic Charities" (whose mission statement seems to epitomize the POV of the SJW) to increase the flow of immigrants to Portland, Maine:

"Such a Disgrace: How Ethan Strimling Betrayed the People of Portland", and

"The Way Life Should Be? Vol. I: From Parts Unknown to Streets Paved with Gold".

In particular, do you think the authors of these articles have a point in the concerns they express? Or are they expressing concerns that deserve no respect, in your view? Or perhaps some intermediate position. BTW, I sympathize with the concerns expressed. But as the saying goes "Your mileage may vary".

————

Kieth also posed another cogent question. “The issue, IMO, is: Should that culture be preserved or replaced (in the name of "progress", of course)?”

Well Keith, since you took the time to ask, I’ll take the time to answer. In general, I can find articles expressing support for the rapid influx of immigrants to Portland as easily as finding article expressing alarm such as the two you noted. The two you found do express valid concerns about real challenges. The influx of so many immigrants so fast is taxing social services in Portland and across Maine. Portland’s elected leaders acknowledge this cost and are addressing it. If the people of Portland disagree, they will vote in new leadership. A lot of Portland residents themselves stepped up to help as do private groups like Catholic Charities. Catholic Charities USA is a national network which does SJW work across the country. It helps poor and needy long term local residents as well as recent immigrants.

Another factor is that Portland is not a quaint New England seaside town. Most Mainiacs don’t even consider Portland to be a Maine city anymore, almost an extension of Boston. It is a liberal city, a historically liberal city. The non-immigrant professionals who moved into Portland made it even more liberal. It is also these professional newcomers who are raising the rent in Portland, not the immigrants from Africa.   

So, does Portland gain anything by taking in all these immigrants? Without these overwhelmingly young immigrants, the population of Portland and all Maine would be on the road to extinction. They are aging out. The money spent educating and supporting these new arrivals is an investment in the future of Maine. These immigrant families are initially content with a far lower standard of living as they take their place in the existing society. That’s how immigrants have always moved into our society. Of course they do change that society in the process of integrating into the society. And that’s the crux of the controversy.

New England has changed dramatically over its long history, but there is a continuity. The Puritans of the 17th century slowly gave way to the abrasive and insular New England Yankee. Although a caricature, the Yankees of the “Bert and I” stories did exist and, in rare corners of Maine, still do. Portland is not one of those corners. Today’s New Englanders are as different from those Down East Yankees as the Yankees are from their ancestral Puritan forefathers. Time and immigrants do that to a society. Both sides change and the way things were are no more.   

I saw that in my Connecticut hometown. The old community of rural Congregationalists more than doubled in size with the influx of Catholic immigrants from eastern and southern Europe. Those immigrants largely worked in the mills in nearby Waterbury. The character and culture of my town changed forever. One factor that eased the cultural transition was what I saw as an outsized effort to educate the newcomers (my family included) as citizens of Prospect, Connecticut. In our grammar school, we were infused with countless lessons in history, literature and citizenship. The Saint Anthony’s RC Church and the Prospect Congregational Church played an important part in this education. Tolerance, mutual courtesy and the imperative duties of citizens and Christians were common lessons from the pulpits. Through those efforts, Prospect became something new rather than a hilltop littered with abandoned houses, barns and fields. We newcomers were not totally assimilated, nor did the older residents remain unchanged. Since the attitude and actions of the people of Portland seem to mirror the attitude and actions of the original population of my hometown, I think Portland will enjoy (or suffer) a similar future. 

There are a lot of communities in the US that are in much worse condition than Portland ever was. The native people are aging out and what kids there are are moving out. They are becoming ghost towns. Refugees and immigrants might be a shot in the arm to those towns, but only if those townspeople are open to give it a try and SJWs like Catholic Charities USA pitch in. I guarantee a lot of the old timers will grouse about the newcomers and their strange ways. They will long for the old days. I guarantee there will be troublemakers among the kids. There always are. But as both sides change willingly or unwittingly, those dying towns may metamorphize into something new. 

OTOH, there is a chance that an influx of immigrants could be so large that the older population is simply driven to extinction. I see no reason to hasten that kind of outcome.

TTG

https://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2019/07/confessions-of-a-latent-sjw-ttg.html#comment-6a00d8341c72e153ef0240a4dd79c8200b  

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/23/us/portland-maine-african-migrants.html

Comments

[turcopolier]

TTG

"4 to 5 million immigrants, political refugees and economic migrants." per year. In ten years that would be 40 to 50 million people who will need various kinds of financial support, medical care, education, etc,. Why not just send the money to Central America ,etc. and have the US embassy there distribute it.
Ah, I forgot we have been doing that in Central America since the Kennedy Administration. I helped give out the money back then.

[catherine]

''I would not call farmers facing consecutive years of crop failures and starvation economic opportunists.''

The question would be.. could those starving farmers be helped where they are in their own country?
It is certainly possible to get enough food to populations to prevent starvation.
The second question would be ...could the cause of their crop failures be cured?
The third question would be...the cost of curing the causes in those countries vr the cost, financial and social, of taking in refugees.

I think there is a lot more the US (and others) could do for countries and situations that cause refuges. Making it possible for people to stay in their own home lands is my preferred option.

The major causes of migration according to UN historical tracking are *natural disasters,*food shortages and *wars. All things we could do something about.

It seems to me we should be addressing the "causes" instead of the refugee 'fallout' of those causes.

Ounce of prevention worth a pound of cure as the saying goes.

[catherine]

''We're going to need a lot of doctors and elder care specialists since we sure aren't breeding them ourselves''

Once again ask "why' we aren't breeding them ourselves and then do something about it.
People from all over the world flock to US universities and medical schools...we aren't more of our own taking those paths?
Is it a educational problem or a societal problem?
I tend to think it is some of both, I don't believe that traditional Americans are just inherently less smart....but maybe less motivated because of the social influences introduced into America.
I could go on and on about those detrimental 'social influences" but I'll leave it at that.

[Adrestia]

Probably lack of faith in the future?

When people don't believe that the future will be better than the present the birth rate declines. It's a good indicator of expectations

In my country the birth rate is declining since the Euro caused a general decline in purchasing power and structural austerity in the past decades.

In Russia the birth rate is increasing. As is the rise in life expectancy.

https://russia-insider.com/en/politics/russias-baby-boom-fertility-rate-far-higher-eu-rising-quickly/ri385

[Harlan Easley]

It's easy to make judgements from the sideline when you already got yours. Illegal immigration has already been a disaster for working class Americans. Quadrupling legal immigration would be the death nail. On the one had I have leftist telling me the Day of Mass Manufacturing are over in America and anyway Robots will eliminate the rest. And to survive one must be intelligent enough to adapt to the "Gig" economy. And then on the other hand they tell me hiding behind their economic moats that the US should massively increase immigration. Very Passive-Aggressive. And a view afforded only because their job and livelihood are not threaten. How many SJWs would change their mind if they could no longer earn a decent wage due to uncontrolled immigration? SJWs are white people with enough wealth to criticize others. The definition of White Privilege.

[jonst]

as someone who has lived in Maine for over 40 years, 5 minutes outside of Portland Maine, am a still active Union Member, a lawyer, a vet, being polite I am not sure how well TTG knows either Portland Maine, or Maine in general. Although I don't have the energy at this time to get into a back and forth. But suffice to say, there IS something brewing here and it is not gonna be pleasant.

[elkern]

There was a stunning article in TAC a month or two ago detailing the AMA's hand in limiting the number of students at US Med Schools, IIRC starting almost a century ago. According to the article, licensing regulations on the schools were set to limit the number of doctors graduating - a pure monopolist strategy of driving up the cost by limiting supply. Those advocating M4A (as I do) must start with a push for training more Doctors (but that's what Cuba did, so we can't).

"Elder care specialist" is often very unpleasant work. Companies in the field are driven by the usual forces to "keep labor costs down" ("pay low wages"), and immigrants are often willing to do harder work for less pay than most people who grew up watching TV in America (expectations of life based largely on the ads we saw!).

[jdledell]

My youngest son has lived in Tokyo for the last 15 years. Japan, in some ways, is an indication of the U.S.future. The birth rate in Japan has dropped so dramatically that it is difficult to hire workers. Most of the cause of Japan's lower birthrate is that women want the same things out of life that men traditional have - ie the money, time and freedom to enjoy life. Japan is even more hostile to immigration than even Trump so that is not a solution likely to be implemented much to Japan's withering economic status.

The U.S situation is similar with a declining birth rate and women seeking alternate livestyles to traditional marriage and child rearing. I am in favor of controlled immigration to fill all kinds of jobs from manual labor to professional jobs. The future economic vibrancy of the U.S depends on offsetting our aging work population.

[Col. B. Bunny]

But if there's a chance that the older population can be driven to extinction you see no reason to limit immigration. Immigration is just a positive good and opposition to it is irrational. The locals have to adapt and that's all there is to it.

To hell with American citizens. If a foreigner wants to barge in, who is to complain?

[Col. B. Bunny]

There are many options available to deal with demographic decline. Importing Nigerians and Muslims who will subvert your country and hold you in contempt is not the ONLY option. Attacking the stupidities of feminism is one alternative. Providing tax breaks for families with children. Encouraging films that do not popularize hedonism, mindless rebellion, and hatred of the culture would help too.

[Eric Newhill]

TTG,
It is the all of immigration combined with the purposeful undermining of our traditions and culture by the education system and other organizations that is the problem. The immigrants are looking around for clues as to what to do and they are being propagandized to see America and whites as enemies.

My father didn't speak English until first grade either. Our grandparents/fathers wanted to be good Americans. They were grateful. Today, immigrants are learning that America is inherently evil, as are the majority population. You and I have vestiges of our fathers' old culture. Nothing wrong with that. But we are Americans first and foremost. Right? I always see protesters/resisters waving the flags of their country of origin. Would your father protest an American policy waving a Lithuanian flag? I bet not.

[Eric Newhill]

Yes. It has been decided. BOHICA. Intellectual blather and blah about it is just cheap Vaseline.

[jdledell]

The vast majority of immigrants have been catholic hispanics. Who said anything about importing Nigerians and Muslims. Like it or not our American culture allows women the freedom to choose a life other than giving birth and raising children. The movie industry is merely a reflection of our current culture - we are NOT in the 1950's anymore. I agree with you that there are things in our current culture that I don't like, but I don't think it is for me to say they are wrong and I am right and I certainly am not in favor of the government deciding our culture. I remember how upset my great grandfather was that women got the right to vote - he was sure America would go right down the tubes. America has seen many changes in our culture over the last 200 years and we have become stronger with every decade. I am confident that trend will continue.

[Fred]

jdledell,

Immigrants are great, why who wants to hire an American like Eric Garner, Trayvon Martin or even Nathan Phillips when you can get new and supperior workers - for less money. Even Japan can't find qualified people within a nation of 125 million and must import Americans to do the work the Japanese just can't do. Which is surprising given the cost of expatriate executive compensation.

"The future economic vibrancy of the U.S depends on offsetting our aging work population."
No it does not.

[jdledell]

Fred - We are talking asbout an aging population and not about people who are different religiously and racially. Yes expat compensation is out of this world but the company he works for needs Jason technical and language skills. He speaks fluently, Mandarin, Cantonese, Korean, Russian and of course Japanese. Those kind os skills are rare among any population.

[Fred]

jdledell,

My, my people get old? Shock! I am happy for your son, Japan is a great country if you can adapt to the culture. My sister and her husband spent half a dozen very happy and relatively lucrative years there. However I would point that that a Japanese company has 15 years in which to train employees multiple languages, or multiple employees on additional language, and yet they somehow can't do that? That is just poor investment in "human resources".

"people who are different religiously and racially" That's your inference, it is certainly not what I stated or implied. Eric, Trayvon and Nathan were/are all Americans. They were not the best and brighteset and haven't been well served by our country's immigration policy. There is little incentive to have children when for your entire life you are told you are a victim, your ancestors were victims and you too will be a victim. That's still the left's policy only now they've picked a group to blame for thier ills. Poor $180,000/year Congresswoman AOC's boo hooing on twitter is an example of the dog and pony show politicians like her put on. Too bad some folks take that doggerel to heart.

[jdledell]

Fred - Part of the reason no Japanese company develops other language skills is their culture is very much against "others". It would take a massive culture change to rectify this problem. I am sure you are aware that I am one of those dreaded "globalists" having lived and built businesses in at least 7 other countries. I love the differences among people and cultures. No I am not pushing for unlimited immigration, just enough for America to absorb the positive aspects of other cultures.

[Fred]

jdledell,

Of course, Imigrants uber alles. Always damning with faint praise. Regardless of where you go you can't find anyone native of sufficient skill or low enough wage so by all means open the borders to ever more immigrants. But just a few, unlike all those countries those immigrants fail to build up; or the backup country you hold the passport to.

You built businesses in foreign countries - but not here? And I thought from all the years of commentary that you were an insurance company executive with multiple international assignments. My how the story changes.

[jdledell]

Fred - The businesses I developed were insurance companies - Prudential of Japan is just one example. Others were in Spain, India, Italy etc. Prudential in America was doing just fine and did not need me but if you look at Prudentials Income sheet you will see that expanding internationally was the best decision Pru ever made.