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30 October 2019

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Leith

Isn't Woolsey a neocon? And even though he led the CIA for two years, he was never an insider, just a lawyer with experience in arms control, a tourist. It's mox nix to me which agency was the main support. Everyone is going to claim a piece of a successful operation as Tacitus once said, or words to that effect. It is just when an op fails that nobody claims the lead. But I agree that the CIA does like to hog credit. In Nam half or more of the CIA personnel were TDY from the Army or Marines.

I would hope that the CIA would concentrate on Daeshi/al-Qaeda ratlines in and out of Turkey.

Leith

CENTCOM confirmed that the DNA analysis was done in a DIA lab.

J

Woolsey is a brown noser who always had (and still has apparently) his head up somebody's backsides. That's seems to be the trend regarding the NEOCONS like Woolsey and Bolton.

I've been saying for 'years' that IMO the CIA needs to be disassembled and all its 'stuff' transferred to DIA where at least the national interests trumps politics. The CIA is a political runner, no longer an Intelligence runner. Jut look at how Tenet (and when she was SecOState Hillary) left CIA agents out to dry, like the one recently brought back to our beloved U.S. by Gina (God Bless Gina's soul).

There are a lot of good hard working devoted CIA agents, it's the CIA bureaucracy IMO that has become dry-rot and needs to be disassembled.

Time for a cup-o-java with a whiskey chaser.

turcopolier

All

When this creep was DCI and I ran Defense HUMINT I spent half my time wheedling coordination/approval out of the CIA and they often lied and cheated claiming previous interest in sources that we were required to reveal to them for coordination. The worm has turned...

turcopolier

TTG

The great liberation occurred after 9/11 when the AUMF (essentially a declaration of war) removed Defense HUMINT from CIA oversight and interference.

turcopolier

j

Woolsey is an arch neocon, a member of the inner group of “gentlemen”. These guys have only feigned party affiliation and are loyal only to the neocon group. They spread themselves across both parties.

turcopolier

All

The original Woolsey statement was at https://www.foxnews.com/person/b/shannon-bream nine items down.

Harlan Easley

Is Neocon just a Euphemism for a World Government ideology?

The Twisted Genius

Harlan, I consider a neocon to be a strident US nationalist totally committed to US world domination.

turcopolier

TTG

No. Neocons seek world domination under their rule. The US is just a tool for them.

ISL

Dear Colonel, ... and Israel always seems to be a top neocon priority - often subsuming US interests.

turcopolier

ISL

The neocons see Israel as yet another tool.

Diana C

Knowing nothing about the workings of intelligence agencies, I find this thread quite informative.

What popped into my mind is that somehow the "talking heads" of the media need to be made better informed about who should or should not be allowed to be "talking head" on the major stations.

As a largely uninformed person in these matter, living out here in the West, my idea of what "DIA" stands for is Denver International Airport. So, I am now happy to know that it can mean what it means to you on this blog.(it's why I come to this blog, to learn things.)

I know we cant count on the organizations of CNN and its ilk to get it right, but at least maybe FOX can get a heads up about who should be considered an expert and who should not. I do know that with the likes of Hannity, FOX will always get a NEOCON perspective. Perhaps the people there can at least tell us openly that we are getting that perspective when we listen to some of their sources.

I am just finally feeling some relief that I no longer see much of Yosemite Sam Bolton.

mac

TGG,

I wonder if the definition must not also include 'totally committed to Israel?' Do u see the neocon record as having advanced US security interests in any meaningful way? Thinking of their record,I understand it to have not strengthened the Pax Americana.

ex PFC Chuck

It seems to me some of the neocons conflate Israeli national interests as perceived by the Likkud party and its allies as ipso facto national interests of the USA. e.g. Douglas Feith of the Bush 43 administration.

The Twisted Genius

Mac, the overlap between neocons and Zionists is pretty remarkable, although I don't see them as the same thing. It's a symbiotic relationship. Neocons are stridently anti-communist, sharing that same disdain for pacifists. Although Colonel Lang and I disagree on this point, neocons espouse a warped authoritarian view of America and conservative American culture. They believe the entire world should either accept those views or be forcibly subjugated.

turcopolier

TTG

We agree on the overlap but, as you say, these are distinct groups. You seem to want to pin neoconism on the conservative side of US politics, but this is, in fact, an international movement with arms in the UK and Israel. In fact the neocon movement has Trotskyite roots. Do you see that somewhere in American conservatism?

Johnb

My observation is that the American Conservative Blog provides some of the most radical challenge to ruling neo-con orthodoxy and by so doing is fulfilling a role of small c conservatism.
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/
If I have understood correctly a principle concern of the Colonel and his correspondents is the sustaining of Constitutional order in the operation of power within the United States, something those living outside the United States also have more than a passing interest in.

JerseyJeffersonian

Well, some chat has it that Bolton will be called to testify in the "impeachment inquiry", so he is still playing his role in undermining Constitutional order. Surprise!

jd hawkins

"I wonder if the definition must not also include 'totally committed to Israel"?

I certainly do!

J

Both John Brennan and John McLaughlin have openly bragged on camera regarding their treason to the U.S.:

https://summit.news/2019/11/01/thank-god-for-the-deep-state-intel-traitors-admit-they-want-to-take-out-trump/

Time that AG Barr arrested both Brennan and McLaughlin, and made them do the perp walk.

English Outsider


TTG - I remember it being said on SST in the past that one of the problems was that Human Intelligence - which I take to mean anything from a cocktail party at the Embassy to penetrating organisations - had lost out to Signals Intelligence. The former sort risking embarrassing blowback, whereas the second was comparatively risk free.

It was rumoured on some sites that the reason the Russians managed to swap their forces around in the Crimea unnoticed was that the orders didn't go out by means of normal channels. Typewritten messages sent by motorbike rather than encrypted communications - that type of communication giving no hint, by an increase of signals traffic etc, that anything was about to happen.

If that's so there'd have been no one from any Western Intelligence agency standing around at some quayside thinking "Rather a lot going on here. Something must be up." Instead, dozens of people sitting at computer screens noticing nothing much amiss. And one assumes the Russians were similarly careful in advance of the extraordinary moves they made in Syria.

Your article is, I think, more about Intelligence for local operations in the field than in Intelligence on a wider scale, but presumably the same applies there. Given that highly skilled experts are two a penny when it comes to anything to do with IT, whereas it must be difficult to get trained and experienced personnel for HUMINT in the field, does this not indicate a lack when it comes to field operations as well? Not in the case you're discussing, obviously, but generally?

Setting aside moral considerations the various Western interventions one reads about all have one thing in common. They are incredibly ham-fisted. "Designed to fail", in retrospect, when one looks at the results and at the little information that comes out about how they were done. Is the shift from HUMINT to SIGINT one reason for that?

In addition to that, the Israelis are reckoned to be strong in HUMINT. Many linguists, exceptional local knowledge, not too bothered by the ROE's that are set out in the documents you link to. There will also presumably be French and UK agencies who've retained at least some of the links they had in the area from colonial days and who have built on those links since.

Any information from such sources could well be tailored to suit the objectives of those passing the information on. Could this also account for Western interventionist operations often looking, as said, ham-fisted in retrospect?

turcopolier

EO

There is a deep underlying tension between SIGINTers and HUMINters in the business. The barons of the IC of course don't care about that. They don't do the work. They just politic for budget and promotion. The US government and media prattle endlessly about the need for really good HUMINT but the business itself is mysterious and somehow repugnant to Americans. CIA was repeatedly purged of skilled HUMINTERS from the time of Carter on, and the institution has never really recovered its skills in recruiting and running foreign penetrants. Military Intelligence, long struggled in the HUMINT field against the CIA's belief that MI was "the real enemy," rather than the USSR but they have grown stronger and stronger and as I said the post 9/11 AUMF was the great moment of liberation. Before that DIA ran good operations at the strategic level but it was a continual struggle to deal with Langley.

J

The Israelis are not as strong in HUMINT as they try to make the world think they are. They're good propagandists when it come to touting their own horn.

anon

Good links.

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