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25 September 2019

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Cee

Is this article accurate?

https://consortiumnews.com/2015/07/13/the-mess-that-nuland-made/

Rick Merlotti

It's almost as if Nancy prefers creating gridlock instead of governing in the interest of advancing the general welfare of the people! This shows you how desperate the elite are to get rid Trump - because he is an outsider and is against the Globalist agenda. Not in a very coherent way mind you. He has a lot of problems. But the financial system is about to blow again and the elite need a malleable toady in the WH. An independant Prez might say F the banks or F your new war when the shit hits the fan, and they can't have that.

akaPatience

Why should Biden's candidacy shield him from law enforcement scrutiny of committing alleged wrongdoing? It certainly didn't shield Trump and his campaign in 2016.

akaPatience

This is a kind of war in which partisanship is only one aspect. We are being battle tested. A leave is understandable but don't give up the fight!

prawnik

FWIW:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/majority-house-members-now-back-some-type-impeachment-action-against-n1058596

prawnik

Of course if Obama were credibly accused of doing the same thing, Team D would be insisting that this was all normal, legitimate above-board behavior, and that anyone who says otherwise is a racist.

Facts, truth, law, justice - none of them matter to Team D or Team R. They care about power.

Lars

She is the third one in succession, should #1 and #2 be unable to serve. She would not be elected to that position. But it is just speculation at this point and the impeachment process will no doubt have some unforeseen consequences.

Factotum

Russians spent millions in Ukraine too every year, renting the port of Sebastopol for their Russian fleet - was visiting shortly before the Crimea annexation and Ukrainians were asking where did all that "rent" money from Russia go. Russia did them a favor taking over the port for themselves and re-establishing their long historic claim to the Crimea. Unfunded millions of direct Ukranian corruption in a win-win operation for all concerned.

Factotum

We called it the "self-esteem" movement remember? Pendulum swung too far and became entitled brattiness. Law of unintended consequences any time a government agency tries to social engineer anything. Including our climate.

Factotum

Lars is suggesting both Trump and Pence will be impeached, due to their alleged high crimes and misdemeanors, leaving Speaker of the House next in succession.

Factotum

The budget expansion is primarily due to failure to reform entitlements - that blame belongs entirely to the Democrats, not Trump. Democrats won in 2018 screaming Trump is going to take away your Medicare, Social Security and Medicaid. Simply because Trump knew all these programs needed serious reform if they were to survive. The increasing federal debt blame rests solely on the Democrats; not Trump. Support reform ofl these exploding entitlements if you want budget reform. If you don't, then keep blaming Trump.

Factotum

Chuba, I think you need to widen your media sources if this is how you see it because nothing in the transcript ,that you claim to have read supports, your conclusions. Guiilanii serves as a ham-handed distraction sometimes, and that can be a good thing considering the red meat the MSM keeps tossing out.

Eric Newhill

Exactly, Patience.

Biden, being very entitled and not too bright, publicly bragged about participating in corruption. Someone needed to investigate. I don't even see how what Trump can be characterized as digging up dirt on a political opponent. Biden displayed the dirt on himself of his own volition.

But yeah, is the rule now that no one can be criminally investigated as long as they're running for office? ...unless the candidate is Trump, of course.

Factotum

Ever think even the voters prefer gridlock - governments who govern least, govern best. DeToquville observed this inherent American contrariness way back when too . Don't under-value gridlock. But let's not go so far as to support open borders which are also a consequence of our current gridlock.

Gridlock does lead eventually to a re-setting of the clock, when we collectively declare we are mad as hell and not going to take this any longer. Self-inflicted gridlock is a good response to the growing Democrat demands we" all come together as a nation" which is their way of saying my way or the high way.

As a noble experiment in representative government, we do have to listen to the wisdom of crowds - who are happy with gridlock right now. Why is that? Indeed - not necessarily an automtically bad thing.

David Habakkuk

Barbara Ann,

I agree with almost all of this.

However, I think one should be cautious about assuming that Trump went ‘off script’ in his reference to the servers. Certainly, it is easy to assume that his claims were ‘nonsense’ – and they may very well be.

It is worth looking closely at what the ‘whistleblower’ says.

So, ‘White House officials who had direct knowledge of the call’, are credited with having made clear that, among other things, Trump pressured Zelensky to:

‘assist in purportedly uncovering that allegations of Russian interference in the 2016 U.S. presidential election originated in Ukraine, with a specific request that the Ukrainian leader locate and turn over servers used by the Democratic National Committee (DNC) (3) and examined by the U.S. cyber security firm Crowdstrike, which initially reported that Russian hackers had penetrated the DNC’s networks in 2016’.

The footnote to which the (3) refers reads:

‘I do not know why the President associates these servers with Ukraine. (See, for example, his comments to Fox News on 20 July: “And Ukraine. Take a look at Ukraine. How come the FBI didn’t take this server? Podesta told them to get out. He said, get out. So, how come the FBI didn’t take the server from the DNC?”)

As it happens – and the piece by ‘sundance’ produces an excellent review of the evidence – we now know that the FBI not only failed to inspect the servers, but never even got a final version of the report from CrowdStrike.

There are those, including some members of this ‘Committee of Correspondence’, who regard this as acceptable behaviour, conformable with old English notions of the ‘rule of law’. I don’t. It is a betrayal of everything I used to think the ‘Anglos’ stood for, in the Cold War.

That said, I must make a ‘mea culpa’. I am kicking myself that I failed to ask the obvious question, months ago: what became of the servers?

If they still exist, it should be possible for an examination to be done by competent – and impartial – people. If they have been destroyed, then it should be possible to ascertain when, and by whom – and ask them what excuses they can provide.

There is I think reason to suspect that Trump’s people have received information suggesting that they were put into Ukrainian hands. (Of course, one needs to be cautious: this could also be disinformation.)

But the question of what became of the servers is obviously now an absolutely critical one.

Meanwhile, there is another indication that very interesting things are happening, in relation to ‘Ukrainegate.’

On 23 September, ‘Bloomberg’ published a report headlined: ‘Trump-Friendly Lawyers Join Legal Team of Ukraine’s Firtash’.

(See https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-09-23/trump-friendly-lawyers-join-legal-team-of-ukraine-s-firtash .)

It opened:


‘Dmitry Firtash, a wealthy Ukrainian and onetime business partner of Paul Manafort who is facing extradition to the U.S. on corruption charges, has hired a legal team with close ties to President Donald Trump.

‘The lawyers retained by Firtash are Victoria Toensing and Joseph diGenova, according to representatives for Firtash and for the attorneys.

‘The husband-and-wife team were vocal critics of Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s probe of Russian interference in the 2016 election and have voiced support for Trump in the news media and in frequent appearances as legal commentators on Fox News.’

This, in turn, needs to be read against the background of a piece in ‘The Hill’ by John Solomon, entitled ‘How Mueller deputy Andrew Weissmann’s offer to an oligarch could boomerang on DOJ’.

(See https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/454185-how-mueller-deputy-andrew-weissmanns-offer-to-an-oligarch-could-boomerang .)

These are too complex matters to go into here, but the direction in which Hill’s piece points is towards the conclusion that Weissman, and also Lisa Page, were attempting to get Firtash, not so much to ‘sing’, as to ‘compose’ – to hark back to the distinction that Judge T.S. Ellis III made, in relation to the case against Manafort.

The Solomon article appeared on 22 July, two days after Trump raised the Ukrainian connection in relation to the servers, very obliquely, to ‘Fox’.

Coincidence? Quite possibly, but I would not be 100% certain of it.

David Solomon

Ah, I had forgotten that Lars. Thanks for the reminder.

Dave Schuler

To prove abuse of power there must be some proof of corrupt intent. That one benefits is insufficient. One must produce more direct evidence. IMO it is unlikely that evidence will be forthcoming.

If your claim is that the Democrats will impeach based on evidence that doesn't prove legal abuse of power, that could be true but it is unlikely to persuade many Senate Republicans and the subsequent trial in the Senate would be likely to fail.

The question then becomes whether a weak and hasty impeachment benefits Democrats or not. I'm thinking not.

Dave Schuler

I don't think so. I think that Speaker Pelosi is under enormous pressure from her own caucus and her choice is between keeping her job or doing what's best for the party. Naturally, she will do what's necessary to keep her job.

Fred

akaPatience,

That is rather dubious since she retired from federal service in August. You should read the actual whistleblower transcript. It is pretty obvious that by transfering the transcripts to what can best be described as a "secure server" the neocons can no longer leak them to the press. In addition the potential list of primary leakers serving in the White House just got reduced to "about a dozen or so". (Page 3 paragraph 6).

Congradulations are in order for smoking out some more deep state actors and highlighting the corruption that is endemic in the swamp. Now if Trump makes a deal with Iran to denuclearize is that beneficial to his reelection chances and thus an impeachable offense, just like when Obama negotiated that first deal? That was impeachable, right guys? How about all those speechs that got Barak that Nobel Prize and the money that came with it, did that violate this new Stasi Standard of conduct being put out by the left?

Dabbler

A suggestion for a different lens to observe the spectacle: Consider Trump as though he were an officer in the military rather than the civilian commander in chief, and view the process as a (perhaps shambling) effort to determine whether or not his conduct warrants discharge before the completion of his term of service. This rough analogy may provide some clarity in viewing the facts, allegations, etc.

Note: I did not serve, but I did take an excellent course in military law taught by Joseph Warren Bishop when he visited our lowly state law school one summer quarter.

walrus

David Habakkuk is right, as is the Sundance article. This is about crowdstrike and the entire Russiagate frame up.

I think we are indeed in a slow motion coup by what I call “the respectable tendency”. This includes the Western intelligence community which is now functioning exactly like the Praetorian Guard.

Given the intelligence community’s surveillance capabilities, I now think Trump will be impeached, tried and convicted in the Senate because the IC is in a position to blackmail every single Senator, Congressman and Supreme Court judge if necessary. Likewise all future political candidates.

If Trump is not impeached and is re elected, he will have an opportunity to clean the stables which must be done. If it isn’t done, you have not only lost your Republic, but considering what is happening in Britain right now, we have lost the Western democracies to an emerging technocratic dictatorship.........for the good of the planet of course.

jonst

personally fred, I could, as a lawyer, come up with a dozen reasons why a bureaucracy that actually has to transfer the aid could come with excuses, legitimate ones, why the aid might be 'delayed'. Further, I believe given time and staff I could come up with, literally, hundreds of examples where aid was 'delayed'. And 'negotiations' took place, understandings were reach, and miracle of miracles, the aid was released and delivered.

jonst

No. not by a long shot.

MP98

The Democrat-media party is definitely throwing Biden over the side.
He's too old, too white, too male and here's the funny part - "moderate."
A pig just flew past my window wearing a banner saying that Biden is a moderate.

jonst

I predict this entire matter will outrun DC's control. Passions on both sides will dictate events. Trump with be impeached, and if the GOP thinks it can safely jettison Trump, to get to Pence, they will. I don't think the GOP, as presently constituted, would survive such betrayal. But I think some might be willing to test my opinion.

I think this could be the Habsburg Crown Prince moment. And event quickly overtaken by events and passions on both sides. And at the end of the matter, an ending I think long in the future, we will marvel over what set it off. This is a very, very, dangerous game about to be played.

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