"If you hit them, they will behave ..." - the neocons' song.

I have long puzzled over the question of why the neocons; Lindsey Graham, the late John McCain (be brave Lindsey!), Jack Keane, Bolton, Pompeo, etc., etc., ad nauseam,  cling so firmly to the idea of striking Iran a hard blow.

Today I heard the reason voiced on the Sunday newsies by several of the Faithful.  "If you punish the Iranians they will behave" was the refrain.  "They know they would lose to the US and so would be afraid to go to war with us."  This delusion is a variation of the Rational Actor Model.  This poly sci inspired model is based on the false premise that everyone, everywhere functions on the basis of the same priorities and values.  This is an untruth.  For example, a willingness to die for one's country is not a universally shared attitude.  Nor is, a belief in an almighty God who dictates one's duty in this world.  A god in whom the Muslims actually believe as expressed in the shahada (testimony) depicted above.

So, pilgrims, the neocons believe that if the Iranians are punished like children who are spanked for picking their noses, they will recognize the error of their ways and the country will accept the will of the US and more importantly of the Zionists who are IMO the source of such a belief.  Zionism seeks a ME pacified with regard to the existence and hegemony of the Jewish State. 

To that end the Zionists have followed a relentless practice of punishing their opponents in order to bring them to heel.  That has never worked for them but they persist in this "strategery" and have clearly convinced a critical number of movers and shakers in the US to follow their lead.  pl

Comments

[Timothy Hagios]

When Trump announced that he had called off an attack on Iran at the last minute, I had hoped it was a face-saving lie meant to evade a war while still looking tough. However, assuming that we can trust John Bolton to tell the truth (granted, a big assumption), it's looking like the story was true. At a private function a few days ago, Bolton claimed that "everyone in the White House" had agreed to attack Iran in retaliation for the downed drone before Trump got cold feet.

Really, everyone? If this is true, then it suggests that Trump doesn't even have a single voice of reason among his advisors. Hopefully, O'Brien will bring some sense to the table.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/18/bolton-trump-foreign-policy-1501932

[TedBuila]

Gypse King has still got (us-a) by the short hair. Lets see if he will comit the USAF-DOD to "dome" Aramco? Ie one has to (a) wonder if DOD has more of its eggs (or MIC head) in the offensive or defensive basket and (b) where the Rational Actor Model fits in

[turcopolier]

All

The 12ers believe that at the apocalypse the Mahdi (hidden Iman) will return with Jesus to judge us all and the dead will be risen to greet them and be judged with the living. Not a good idea to choose to fight people who believe things like that, not a good thing.

[eakens]

We have our own Mahdi....

https://youtu.be/pYoznqDQVDA?t=80

https://youtu.be/3N2bOVd9_n8

[Babak Makkinejad]

We are resting our hopes on the gentle intercession of Isa Masih.

[srw]

Read this in The Guardian which I think is true:

‘There is a longstanding joke told in the Middle East about Saudi Arabia’s reluctance to fight its own wars. “Saudi Arabia will fight until the last Pakistani,” the punchline goes, in reference to the fact that Pakistani troops have long supported Saudi’s military endeavors.
The punchline has expanded lately to include the Sudanese, a recent addition to the Saudi army’s ground troops. Saudi Arabia is accustomed to buying labour that it deems too menial for its citizens, and extends that philosophy to the army.’

My take: the US doesn’t need to become Saudis new “Pakistan”.

[kemerd]

I am sure a lot of believers in Iran to such stories. But, the real reason is they can strike back and strike hard. I am astonished by the way the US politicians behave when talking about striking a major country.

[turcopolier]

kemerd

An atheist.

[turcopolier]

Babak

So am I.

[Eric Newhill]

Yes. The neocons are crazy fools, but the Iranians are religious fanatics. Both are equally capable of incendiary actions based on their mental existence in a separate reality.

I have always thought that a middle path is the best course of action for the US. Ignore the Zionist demands to get involve in a sorts of clever by half expressions of punitive and preemptive force. At the same time make it known that if any country demonstrates that it has become an active existential threat to Israel, then the US will reduce it/it's forces to rubble. Also, if any country is hosting terrorist groups hostile to the US, then they get attacked with very open ended ROIs. No COIN.

However, if Israel, with no real provocation, attacks someone bigger than it can handle, then it must be left to suffer the consequences.

Get the troops out of the region and sit back and watch. Also, let the religion of peace and honor kill each other through factional wars. The US should stay out of that, though I guess US businesses could make some money selling the factions weapons with they can kill each other.

[Babak Makkinejad]

Islam is not a religion of Peace, it is a religion for both War and Peace.

Peace is preferable, even with the unbelivers but war, regrettably will be necessary at times.

You do not know any Arabs, that is for certain, else you would not have made light of the notion of Honor.

[Babak Makkinejad]

At the end, we are just left with our Hopes.

[aleksandar]

If I remenber well
Fist to come is the Mahdi.
But he will be unable to defeat Antichrist
Then Jesus will come to kill him.

[Charlie Wilson]

You have got to be a genetic mutation. Post your karyotype.

[blue peacock]

Col. Lang

The neocons seem to always advocate military intervention and regime change in the ME as well as in South/Central America. And they have a big bugaboo with Putin's Russia. However, they remain silent with respect to the real threat of the Chinese communists who have always had an expansionist mindset. Do you have an opinion on why that is the case?

[blue peacock]

"...if any country demonstrates that it has become an active existential threat to Israel, then the US will reduce it/it's forces to rubble."

Why is this our problem? How does this serve US national interests?

[anon]

Birdie by bye

[Eric Newhill]

I meant to say open ended ROEs. Too long in corporate world.

[DH]

Mahdi returns with Jesus, that's pretty cool.

[Rep]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xrQKxO3fyU
Imran Hosein a Sunni scholar have a ton of videos about Islamic eschatology, it is quite interesting.

[coboarts]

Several years back I read a post on the Diplomat site by an author I had come to respect. In reference to the Vietnam experience, he was talking about a newer strategy of bombing them more, faster. I had to comment then about how after dropping more bombs than in WWII or something like that the North Vietnamese went from peasants in black pajamas sneaking through jungle trails to basically driving armor down a four lane highway, or something like that. It seems to infest our military thought leaders, too. And how can anyone really think the Iranians will wilt? - "Children were used to clear minefields or in the “human wave” strategy of attack where hordes of bodies were more or less just thrown at superior Iraqi artillery in an effort to overcome them."

http://www.theendofhistory.net/important_stories_christians_need_to_know/irans-child-soldiers/

If you blow up people I love - then it's all out baby. And who doesn't think like that -?

[Terence Gore]

https://thegrayzone.com/2019/09/22/us-troops-in-saudi-arabia-to-defend-hegemony-not-security/

Wilkerson's take on recent events

[Lars]

I just toured the WWII museum in New Orleans, something I would suggest everybody will do. Thus, I would suggest that the US acts very carefully. Wars that get out of hand are extremely expensive on many levels. Besides, I have some doubt that young men and women today would answer the call like they did in 1941-42.

I agree with those who urge the US to bring all US troops pout of the region and just watch, be prepared, but don't get involved. It appears that the WH, and possibly others, think that US troop will not be attacked. I would consider that a bad bet if things get out of hand. As it has been said, if it can go wrong, it eventually will.

[Babak Makkinejad]

No.

The Imam of Age is supposed to emerge from his occulation in Mecca, in Masjia al Haram, flanked by Isa Masih.

[turcopolier]

Babak

Allah yubarak fik, akhi.