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05 September 2019

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Vegetius

The problem here is that if you point out the obvious you get called an anti-Semitic conspiracy theorist, and smear merchants pour from the woodwork to ruin your name and wreck your livelihood.

Our true enemies are inside the wire and history will be very kind to Pat Buchanan.

turcopolier

Vegetius

your gratitude is deeply appreciated.

Erwin

Could this be a sign of desperation on the side of the Israelis? That they would completely throw out their previous position, which they clearly had a self-preserving reason for holding, in order to "force" the hand of the United States?

Because in that scenario, the American public would be 100% certain that their youth are dying for a foreign country. An inconvenient truth that Israel has tactfully avoided until now.

BABAK MAKKINEJAD

How can the United States defend a country with undefined borders?

She will be fighting forever.

Lars

Opposing the policies of the governments of Israel or Saudi Arabia does not make you anti-Semitic. I don't consider either, due to government policies, to be worthy of any treaties with the US. I would even urge limiting any military or economic support until such time that they show that they deserve it.

As I have said before, they inhabitants of that area have been fighting for about 10 thousand years and it is naive to think the US can end that. It may be contained, but a sizable segment of the political class resist even that.

There seems to be some movement away from uncritical support for Israel and I welcome that.

prawnik

To paraphrase P.J. O'Rourke, this is like doing real estate deals with your dog.

"Beachfront property? You don't want that, Fido, I've got what you really want, a dump! Chicken bones and dead rats everywhere!"

plantman

Let me be the devil's advocate for a minute:

Let's say that the US DOES go to war to defend Israel. Let's say, Israel fires missiles into south Lebanon and Hezbollah responds in force. Netanyahu then sends his armored divisions northward where they are immediately bogged down taking heavy casualties...

Netanyahu then implores Trump to send in the troops, and Trump obliges. (Grovelling Congress of course offers their complete support.)

Then what??

Then American troops are killed and wounded in a war that does NOT involve US interests at all.

Imagine how that changes the consciousness of Americans across the country. Imagine how all the taboos about criticizing Israel get flushed down the toilet overnight. Imagine how our relationship with Israel fundamentally changes as the price in blood and treasure becomes unavoidably obvious to every american with access to a TV set or newspaper.

Any war in which even one american soldier dies to defend Israel will fundamentally change the "special relationship" forever. And that could be a very positive development indeed.

Barbara Ann

Col. Lang

I would hope that all here would appreciate the tremendous professional and personal sacrifice you have made as a result of calling out malign neocon and Zionist influences within the USG. As a patriot & honorable man you will say you had no choice, but I for one would like to express my gratitude nevertheless. Many lesser men have taken the easier path.

HK Leo Strauss

The KSA and Likhud share a common battle song - “Onward Christian soldiers”

Fourth and Long

Obviously too subject to being manipulated. Cannot do. End of story.

catherine

I second that...Bravo for Col.Lang!

We should all speak out. Traitor trumps anti Semite in every country in the world and 'imo' applies to some politicians.
I wrote a letter to Rep Joe Wilson in SC (even though he wasn't my rep)during the run up the Iraq invasion because of his disgusting salivating for war and called him a traitor. I got back a two page letter explaining how he wasn't a traitor and I was wrong about the Iraq "threat",
Only time I ever gotten more than a form letter from a politician....LOL

arze

Review of 1973 Israel/Syria/Egypt War may be instructive here. Israeli-occupied territory in Egyptian Sinai and Syrian Golan was attacked and overrun by those Arab armies.

"We were determined to resist by force if necessary the introduction of Soviet forces into the Middle East regardless of the pretext under which they arrived," then-Secretary of State Henry Kissinger wrote in his memoir.

President Obama/Secretaries Clinton and Kerry diplomacy, whatever else it was, resulted in Russian Federation firmly not only reasserting herself in the Arab world, but in a way more directly at odds with whatever it is that can now be called US middle east "policy" in that region.

Though to many US middle east "experts" UNO Security Council resolution 338 may be a thing of the past, Russian President Vladimir Putin has publicly re-stated support for that as the means to address the Golan problem.

338 states as follows: "The Security Council

1. Calls upon all parties to the present fighting to cease all firing and terminate all military activity immediately, no later than 12 hours after the moment of the adoption of this decision, in the positions they now occupy;

2. Calls upon the parties concerned to start immediately after the cease-fire the implementation of Security Council resolution 242 (1967) in all of its parts;

3. Decides that, immediately and concurrently with the cease-fire, negotiations shall start between the parties concerned under appropriate auspices aimed at establishing a just and durable peace in the Middle East."

And 242 requires Israel to vacate Golan. Camp David Accords resulted in Israel vacating Sinai.

In practical terms what would a Defense Treaty of Alliance with the United States and Israel accomplish?

President Obama's complete diplomatic failure by which Russia returned to Syria is as big a part of this issue as any.

Obama's "feckless" foreign policy, as stated by the late, reckless, Sen. John McCain in 2014, referenced Russia actions in Ukraine and Syria.

The fecklessness one may have resulted in direct Russian intervention in Syria, a year later. The reckless one's answer, as espoused now by Sen. Graham, will not remove them.

The Palestine issue, an unsolved matter from World War I, in fact, also remains at the heart of this conflict.

Henry Churchill King and Charles R. Crane, among others, knew that in 1919, and say so in their report to President Woodrow Wilson.

A century later, where are we?

242 requires Israel to vacate occupied Palestine.


turcopolier

arze

Instructive? Sounds like you are in grad-school. we operate at the post-doctoral level on SST.

turcopolier

Fourth and Long

Incomprehensible

catherine

''Let's say, Israel fires missiles into south Lebanon and Hezbollah responds in force. ""

Israel has that covered already. They will claim Americans were also attacked by Hezbollah....if they have to blow up our new US base there themselves. Say Thank You to our Traitors in congress.
_____________________
US opens first permanent military base in Israel | TheHill

https://thehill.com › policy › defense › 351274-us-opens-first-permanent-...
Sep 18, 2017 - Israel and U.S. officials on Monday inaugurated the first permanent American military base in the country, which will house dozens of U.S. troops and a missile defense system. The base will be located within the Israel Defense Forces Air Defense School in southern Israel, near Beersheba, Defense News reported. The facility will include a barracks and several other buildings for U.S. troops to be stationed in the country, as well as systems to identify and intercept various aerial threats. It will operate under Israeli military directives

''It all started at the end of the past decade: Sen. Mark Kirk, one of Israel’s biggest supporters in the US Congress, suggested situating in Israel the sophisticated X Band Radar, a defensive system that gives early warnings of missile strikes. To the surprise of decision-makers in Jerusalem, the US administration's Secretary of Defense Robert Gates quickly authorized the exceptional request and within two months, by September 2008, the huge radar system was built in the Negev. It includes two towers of sophisticated sensors, the tallest of their kind in the world''

C fromke

Where do you place the Star of David on old glory?

ted richard

pl it won't matter if we sign it or not. the great bulk of useful israel is confined to a narrow band of land within range of a massive precision conventionally armed missile attack. in the event of a real shootout by the time washington rode in to help much of useful israel would be in ruins and i think it improbable washington will destroy lebanaon,syria and iran BEFORE any of them launch a first strike against israel.

the treaty seems to me more of a realization how screwed the israelis now think they are against implacable foes who can now deliver as good as they get. in the world of geopolitics this treaties existence and public discussion is an open admission of israels already baked in the cake military defeat should they start a real war.

which is why the israelis will try to maintain for peace despite all their usual 'you're gonna get it.... threats'

william

PROsemitism ------- what is it?
If there is an "antisemitism" you must ask: "What is PROsemitism?"
PROsemitism must be a supporter of "semitism", which really means Judaism (though most Moslems are SEMITIC and most JEWS are NOT). So what are you supporting if you are a PROsemite? Well first of all we must define Judaism:
Judaism is neither a race or a religion, it is Xenophobic Tribalism.
XENOPHOBIC: n.
A person unduly fearful or contemptuous of that which is foreign, especially of strangers or foreign peoples.
TRIBALISM: n.
1. The organization, culture, or beliefs of a tribe.
2. A strong feeling of identity with and loyalty to one's tribe or group.
So right off the get-go you hate all NON-Jews, NON-members of YOUR group(TRIBE).
You "bundle together" for support and safety, the very definition of Fascism
THAT means, that if I am not one of the TRIBE, you do not like me.
Jews have been practicing eugenics for 3,500 years. Jewish mother "makes" you a Jew. Jewish father decides your tribe.
Since Jews BRAND all NON-Jews "gentile" automatically denigrating them, to be PROsemitic one must by definition be ANTI-GENTILE.
They hate all NON-Jews so fundamentally, that they have to SPECIFICALLY name "RIGHTEOUS GENTILES".
Those are NON-Jewish HUMANS that went so far out of their way to help/save Jews that the Jews were FORCED to ACKNOWLEDGE the humanity of that specific 'gentile". You see, PROsemites do not acknowledge the EQUALITY of spirituality and humanity of "gentiles"
What the Jewish Rabbis think of JESUS “As for Christianity, there is a dispute among Halachic authorities, but the vast majority consider it idolatry as well. Islam, on the other hand, is not considered idolatry.” Read that last bit again VERY SLOWLY so the "christianzionists" can follow: "ISLAM, on the other hand, is NOT considered idolatry.” ...........

According to the SPLC & ADL an organization is a "HATE GROUP" if it has
"beliefs or practices that attack or malign an entire class of people".
Jews have HATED Egypt for 3,500 years.
Jews have HATED Babylon for 2,500 years.
Jews have HATED CHRIST and his followers for 2,000 years.
For 3,500 years antiGENTILISM has been the glue binding Judaism
Israel's entire being is predicated on the hatered of non-jews holding "The Tribe" together.

David Ben-Gurion, one of the father founders of Israel, described Zionist aims in 1948: "A Christian state should be established [in Lebanon], with its southern border on the Litani river. We will make an alliance with it. When we smash the Arab Legion's strength and bomb Amman, we will eliminate Transjordan too, and then Syria will fall. If Egypt still dares to fight on, we shall bomb Port Said, Alexandria and Cairo... And in this fashion, we will end the war and settle our forefathers' account with Egypt, Assyria, and Aram ".............. read that again
"and settle our forefathers' account with Egypt, Assyria, and Aram"
They are STILL HATING and planning deadly attacks after 3,500+ YEARS .
How do you think they feel about JESUS CHRIST whom they have HATED for 2,000 years.
Israel's MOTTOES:
(1) NEVER forgive & NEVER forget.
(2) By Way of Deception you will Do War.
Their ONLY(monotheistic) "god" is a WAR god
PROsemitism is antiGENTILEism and Gentiles are ALL NON-jews.

Harlan Easley

I imagine that's the point. We are currently in northeast Syria and still in Iraq due to Israel.

Harlan Easley

What should be the over-under on this passing. I imagine out of the US Senate Vegas would have this at 98 out of 100. Maybe Senator Paul and Sanders would vote against it. Maybe not. I would take the over.

On the House side it is even more of a joke. Over-under at 425. I would bet it all on the over. Minus the Squad. AOC would probably cave since she is eying a long easy career.

Phodges

This relevant....originally from the NYT

https://theiranproject.com/blog/2019/09/05/the-secret-history-of-the-push-to-strike-iran/

Barbara Ann

In another sphere this 'mutual' defense treaty would be a joke. It is carefully worded to permit Israel to continue to mow the regional grass as it sees fit (Natanz?) with a cast iron guarantee that any sizeable response will trigger war with the US. Sen. Graham may as well be suggesting that the command structure of US Forces be folded into the IDF.

Article 3 includes the following, which to me sounds like wording to cover a cyber attack:

An attack against Israel achieving technological or strategic surprise that destabilizes the military balance and threatens Israel’s Qualitative Military Edge
It also includes a catch-all that the treaty can be activated by an "urgent request" by either Power. Article 4 says Israel gets any Five Eyes intel concerning its security. I was surprised by this, as I had assumed this was the case already.

https://jinsa.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/JINSA-For-a-Narrow-U.S.-Israel-Defense-Pact-7-30-19.pdf

catherine

''israelis will try to maintain for peace ''

Time for my true monkey story.
When I was about 10 years old a associate of my father had a pet monkey or it might have been a chimp as it seemed a little bigger.
He had rescued/bought the monkey from a traveling animal show and took the monkey everywhere he went. Restaurants, stores, that didn't normally allow pets in let him in because they were so taken with the tale of the poor rescued monkey.
The monkey has his own room at his house and a swing set and anything he pointed at and chattered ,the man bought for him.
They were a fixture in town, the man and the monkey.
One day my father mentioned that he was concerned the monkey was getting out of control. The man had brought him to my fathers office and the monkey went wild, jumping on everything and throwing things around.
Sometime later we heard the man was in the hospital. He had trained the monkey to do things at home and bring him things.
So he was sitting on an outdoor porch and told the monkey to go get them two cokes from the fridge.
The monkey went and got the cokes but didn't want to hand one over to the man. The man tried to take it from him and the monkey bashed him in the head with the coke bottle right beside his eye.
Some neighbors heard the ensuing yelling of the man and screeching of the monkey and went to help.
I don't remember hearing what happened to the monkey, whether he was put down as dangerous or turned over to some animal zoo, but the man didn't keep him.

The man let the poor abused monkey get too spoiled and got bashed in the head for it. This is where we are at with Israel and its supporters.

jdledell

Bibi is iching to attack Iran - it fits the image he has of himself. It is probable that Bibi will take advantage of this proposed treaty. I can see a scenerio where the IAF bombs Iranian nuclear facilities (the IAF has already flown a number of missions to the Iranian border to test Iranian defense responses). When Iran and Hezballah respond with missiles into Israel, Bibi will run to Trump and try to get the U.S. to take over bombing of Iran proper as well as the ground operation to rout out Hezballah from Lebanon. This could get ugly fast and spark a much wider Mideast War as Iraqi and Syrian shite militias join the fight and I can see the possibility that the Iraqi government will declare war against Iran's enemies.

I think Israel will be making a major mistake is provoking a wide ranging mideast war. Hezballah's missiles alone will cause major panic in Israel leading a portion of the millions of dual passport holders to leave, perhaps permanently.

turcopolier

jdledell

As I have proposed before you would be most welcome as the head Israel person on SST.

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