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02 September 2019

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Jack

Dream on while drinking the koolaid!

https://twitter.com/baldingsworld/status/1168906048427741185?s=21

Xi's speech on combat spirit & five whatever 五个凡是 again shows he wants a disciplined, ideologically pure, almighty Leninist party, which will not mesh well with his lesser goals of economic reforms and having better relations with the West. Maybe he gave up on the two already
English Outsider

I've met a fair few Chinese from Hong Kong. Most civilised people you could hope to meet. The videos coming out right now are different, as I suppose one would expect.

One could argue that for us to implant English administrative practices and English attitudes in a patch of Chinese land we were only holding on a lease was foolish, even if those characteristics didn't go that deep for many. Perhaps some of the trouble is due to that, as the Chinese further incorporate Hong Kong into their radically different system.

JJackson

I did not misquote you. If you had said "Yemen and Palestine against tyranny" then it would have made perfect sense and I would not have asked the question. Bibi and MBS are tyrants but a million miles away from being communist. HK is a different matter they have a democratic tradition, from their time as a UK colony, and the communist mainland is trying to chip away at the one country two systems arrangement and they are fighting back. I am not sure it will end well for them as tyranical regimes tend to be fairly brutal in crushing dissent.

JJackson

Are we talking about Israel today under Bibi, who might fit the Facist tyrant model, or the Israel of the days when their Labour party used to form the government? These are two very different Israels. I can not accept they are still communist in any way. I am no fan of communism, facism or any system based on a religious ideology which leads to tyrany I just want to be clear which type of tyrany we are talking about rather than calling all tyranies communism.

Fred

Pwalden,

"... interests of its own people, many of whom are apparently sinking beneath the waves of debt, ill health, addiction and general decline in life expectancy and life chances."

Like Detroit, which elected a 'cough, cough' person of color to be Mayor, proving diversity is their strength. That 'person of color' has done such a great job that Squad member Tlaib can spend her time in Congress devoting attention to the issues in the West Bank and Gaza rather than downtown or downriver. If only Barack had done something for Michigan in his eight years in office, because you know what Trump has done has had zero impact on the Michigan economy. Now if only GM would open some more plants in China, like they did when lobbyist Debbie Dingell was working for them, I'm sure the people of Michigan would be trememdously better off. The people in Ohio would love it too. Just ask them about Lordstown; or maybe we should ask Mary Berra about that one.

BTW where does all that fentanyl come from? Perhaps we should put a stop to that traffic so we can eliminate the problem of 'addiction and decline in life expectancy".

turcopolier

babak

Wha is the difference between Syria's relationship to Iran and Germany's relationship to the US?

turcopolier

jjackson

I inadvertently used the word "Communist" in the post with regard to Israel and Yemen. Sloppy. Sorry. What was intended was a reference to ANY tyranny.

BABAK MAKKINEJAD

Iran did not defeat SAR in war and then impose her political will on her.

turcopolier

Babak

you don't think Germany's participation in NATO is voluntary?

BABAK MAKKINEJAD

Join US Military and be ready to be dropped in Tai Pei in the event of war.

Or ask your male relatives to enlist.

turcopolier

babak

Incomprehensible nonsense.

BABAK MAKKINEJAD

I will list the names of sovereign states - that is, those that can stand on their own two feet and make independent decisions - that I know of:

the United States of America
the United Kingdom
the Russian Federation,
the People's Republic of China
the Democratic People's Republic of Korea
the Islamic Republic of Iran
the Indian Union
the Socialist Republic of Vietnam
the Kingdom of Sweden
the Confederation of Helvetia

b

The recent NYT op-ed by Joshua Wong, a NED financed rabble rouser in Hong Kong, shows that the U.S. instigate color revolution attempt is designed to push the other crazy anti-China law through Congress.

Sanction Chines officials for administrating a Chinese city? In other countries such is called lunacy.

BABAK MAKKINEJAD

I wrote many comments - to which one do you refer as incomprehensible?

turcopolier

babak
"Join US Military and be ready to be dropped in Tai Pei in the event of war. Or ask your male relatives to enlist." means what?

turcopolier

b

"Such is lunacy" does Germany not sanction Russia for its actions in the Crimea?

Babak Makkinejad

I am fed up when people use the word "appeasment". Appeasement, in my opinion, is the epitome of Statesmanship and Diplomacy. Jack wants war.

English Outsider

Colonel - this comment is far from the topic of Hong Kong. Please ignore it if it is an intrusion here; but my attention was immediately caught by one word -

"Voluntary". That is the essence of NATO and of any closer alliance that is contained within it. "Voluntary". Any country that doesn't want to be in NATO, or only wants to be half in it, can act as it pleases. That has been seen in practice with the French and in other cases. That also applies to other alliances or co-operative ventures with the USA, the most dramatic instance of that being the UK, one of America's closest allies, declining to engage in the Vietnam War.

In addition NATO takes the defence capabilities of the constituent partners and makes such use of those as is possible. I have seen as an example given for this that the UK's wish to focus on defending sea lanes was accommodated within the NATO structure. It is therefore not only a voluntary set of alliances, it is a flexible one.

The current European trend is towards a European defence alliance outside NATO, and within the EU 27/28. This burgeoning alliance cannot by its nature be "voluntary" - any country in such an alliance will be permanently locked in by its membership of the EU.

In addition the tendency will be for the European Alliance that is now forming outside NATO to prescribe what its constituent members must do. This is in direct contrast with that more flexible NATO approach mentioned above that takes what its members want to do and integrates that into a common defence.

The engine of this separate alliance outside NATO, that is, the pressure on the countries of the 27/28 to be incorporated in such an alliance, comes from joint European defence projects. No European country wishes to be excluded from such projects and the pressure from defence contractors to be included must be strong. I've seen it suggested, and I believe it to the the case, that this is the reason for HMG under Mrs May pushing ahead fast with UK/EU defence integration outside NATO over the last couple of years even while, at least ostensibly, seeking to distance the UK from the EU during that time.

All that from that single word "voluntary". But that is a word that means freedom, Colonel. The freedom of any country within that great defensive alliance that is NATO to participate if it pleases and how it pleases. To subordinate one's country, and that for commercial reasons rather than reasons of common defence, to another type of alliance, an alliance that locks its members in rather than leaves them free to be in or out, is what the 27/28 countries of the EU are heading for. Is that truly in their interests, or in the interests of our common defence?

blue peacock

The "NED financed rabble rouser" is willing to risk his life. How about you?

Are you willing to move to China and live under the CCP utopia? Or are you just another armchair Maoist enjoying the freedom of expression available in Germany to criticize & denigrate those that demand it in CCP land where it does not exist?

Pathetic!

walrus

I am concerned that postings here are arguing from a western democratic standpoint without understanding the way the Chinese culture is built. From that, wrong assumptions are made.

Firstly, as I have said before, Chinese culture recognises no authority outside the extended family except that which can be applied by force or that which benevolently supplies benefits to those who accept it. They will accept any form of Government at all provided it allows the family to survive.

The second thing is that the Chinese are natural businessmen and traders. They will do literally anything to make a dollar.

For example, at least one Chinese baby food company decided to take the cheap way out of complying with formula protein standards - they added melamine, a toxic compound, to their product to trick laboratory tests into showing that the product met the required standards. About 300,000 babies were affected.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal

Do you now understand what the average Chinese is capable of doing????????

Taking my items one and two together - no respect for authority and a complete lack of shame, I believe I can make some observations:


- modern technological society and infrastructure requires high levels of cooperation and trust between participants -the CCP provides a framework for this, right up to a bullet behind the ear for not getting with the program.

Consider for example, how you run an energy grid composed of multiple independent power stations in China, where every plant manager is a potential cheating entrepreneur, without the strongest form of central authority? It's not going to happen.


The only possible conclusion is that the Chinese Communist party rules China because it is strong, organised and has delivered massive material increases in standards of living to the majority, period. The CCP did not snuff out some gorgeous Jeffersonian democracy when it came to power, it took power from a gang of corrupt thieves who were only interested in democracy as far as it convinced suckers in the USA to support it.

So now lets think what happens if the neocon dream actually happened and the CCP collapsed overnight, leaving a vacuum. Is that vacuum going to be immediately filled by a horde of Chinese democrats who have been secretly yearning for multi party elections, caucuses and secret ballots all these years? No way!

The CCP collapse would be followed by a kleptocratic tidal wave that would make the Russian experience under Yeltsin look tame. It would be every man for himself and the country, lacking strong central authority would split along ethnic, geographical and regional lines. The Republics of Taiwan and now potentially Hong Kong, being examples.

So why should we care? Remember my first two points? No respect for authority and no shame in making a buck? Here's a hint:

https://thehill.com/policy/international/459737-china-contests-trump-claims-says-its-not-source-of-fentanyl

If China implodes, the Chinese will flood the world with every form of illegal drug known to man and then start inventing new ones. Unfettered Chinese technology will produce an export strange weapons that even William Gibson in his latest science fiction hasn't dreamt of. Every sort of device - miniature killer robots, hacking tools, genetically engineered drugs, steroids, body implants and then there are the service industries, organ harvesting and transplants for example.

If the CCP implodes we will look back fondly on the days when all they supplied was fake Louis Vuitton handbags.

So now look at Hong Kong from what I would like to believe is a more balanced perspective; the CCP cannot tolerate open rebellion by Hong Kong because it sets a dangerous precedent. The rebellion is going to be suppressed. This is going to end in tragedy for the participants and their families.

I am concerned that our efforts to support and possibly foment the rebellion will actually ensure its failure because the CCP will want to send us a direct message about our interference as well as make an example of Hong Kong to the rest of China. We don't give a damn about the people of Hong Kong anyway. We are just using them to rile China.

blue peacock

You are making an assumption that the CCP will initiate war if the US recognizes Taiwan. That need not be the case. Unless they believe in suicide.

Jack is making a coherent case on why the US cannot make any deal with the CCP as it is not worth the paper it is written on and why the US should engage more forcefully to target the finances of the top CCP officials.

I agree with him and this message is starting to resonate with more & more Americans. If we don't take down the CCP now we'll have to fight a more destructive military war later.

Unhinged Citizen

The punitive measures in B.C. would only be a bonus. Governments are slow to react to threats, and since 2018, there is the equivalent of a head tax on Chinese money being park inside B.C.

Those 1.2 billion people are not members of the Communist Chinese Party nor would they sacrifice their lives for this regime. The numerous Chinese whom I know admit they do not expect justice and fairness living under the regime.

English Outsider

Babak, might I ask - is that the old Babak I used to have a set to over the Falklands and such matters with? The styles very different. Less thoughtful, sharper.

Maybe you've taken this pilgrim's journey and just sharpened up your views. Maybe you're a different Babak. Which is it?

Jack

Jack wants the destruction of CCP now to avoid inevitable military conflict in the future. Don’t project.

Jack

This is the future that Babak and b promote.

https://twitter.com/anne_mariebrady/status/1169011377601765377?s=21

Get your goosestep in order!

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