Experience Saudi Arabia! Don't do it...

"Tourism chief Ahmed Al Khateeb said abayas will not be mandatory for women tourists but modest dress is, including at public beaches.

Visas will be available online for about $80 (Dh294), with no restrictions for unaccompanied women as in the past. Access to the Muslim holy cities of Makkah and Medina is restricted.

Further details of the new visa rules will be announced on Friday evening at 10.30pm UAE time during an unveiling ceremony scheduled to take place at Ad Diriyah, a Unesco (United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization) World Heritage Site in Riyadh."

Currently only citizens of Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, and the UAE can travel freely to the country."  Gulf News

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What a treat! A visit to a theocratic police state where religious volunteer police wander the country looking for sinners as defined in the Hanbali sharia law code of the country.   There is no civil law code, none, and the Hanbali school of Sunni law restricts the basis of judicial decisions to Qur'an and Hadith.  This last  is the Hanbali accepted corpus of traditions of the practice and utterances of the Prophet and the early Muslim community living in the Mecca/Medina area.  This excludes the mass of case law consulted by judges in the other three Sunni "schools" of law and the entire Shia world. 

Once you enter SA as a tourist you will be be completely at the mercy of the Bone Saw Man's whims.  Women alone will be looked at by the populace as whores who have not yet been punished.  Relationships between members of tourist groups will be carefully scrutinized.  Public displays of affection will be noted.  A woman emerging from a hotel in a short sleeved dress or God Forbid! in shorts will be reminded of her lack of modesty and doubtful morality.  Blasphemous utterance questioning the Way of God will have to be corrected.

And what is there to see, "Meda'in Salih?  This was a frontier outpost of the Nabataean state.  Go to Jordan and see the Nabataean capital at Petra AND have a G & T at the end of the day in a government run hotel.  In Jordan on Sunday you can go to church.  In SA there  are not churches and Christians who pray together in secret are arrested and imprisoned.

Go to a decent place like; Jordan, Oman, Morocco, Turkey  pl

https://gulfnews.com/world/gulf/saudi/its-official-saudi-is-open-to-tourists-from-around-the-world-1.1569496913496

Comments

[steve]

We were putting up sandbags around our Air Transportable Hospital outside of Riyadh. Some of the women were helping and we were allowed to roll up our sleeves. (It was hot.) When I had to go inside to see a pt, a Saudi officer, he asked why we allowed whores to work with our men. Another time I was asked why we allowed our women to drive. I dont think most Americans have a clue about how different things are in SA.

Steve

[Babak Makkinejad]

It is a wonderful country for ugly women.

[Diana C]

Several years ago, my brother had to work as a field engineer in SA, as his company had sold a "governor" for some sort of equipment. His company sent a young woman to do the office administrative work.

The stay was a lonely and boring experience for her, as she was basically in house arrest the whole time. I understand, however, that for her time there she was paid well.

My brother had more freedom and could ride a bicycle around the country a bit. Still, he did not recommend the place. He earned a LOT of money for his work and was able to take his son and daughter-in-law with him on a wonderful trip to Italy after his stint in SA was over.

Before that, he had worked as a field engineer for the same company in Kuwait. There he spent a very long time, more than he had thought he would spend when he agreed to go. He said, the reason for his extended stay was that the Kuwaitis who were paying for his services had somehow felt they were buying him as a permanent helper--sort of as a slave, I guess. They simply felt it was underneath them to learn how to use the equipment and thought they had bought him as part of the deal.

My brother has retired, but he had before that told his company not to ask him again to spend time in that part of the world.

[prawnik]

It will be a cold day in hell (or in Saudi Arabia, but I repeat myself) before I visit...

[Babak Makkinejad]

They are the Protestants of Islam, having rejected Tradition as well as the need for interpretation. Their position, Quran and Sunnah, is what I often hear from Suunis, in the United States as well as abroad.

[prawnik]

The first rule of the expat performing services for Saudis is this - always remember to get paid up front, as that is all you will be getting paid.

The second rule is to never forget to always remember to get paid up front.

The third rule is to always remember to never forget to always remember....

[prawnik]

It is good to always look at the positive.

[Diana C]

He did get his pay both times, but that was arranged through his company; so they probably had learned the rules you mention.

[Keith Harbaugh]

Does anyone else see a future problem arising caused by a conflict between
a) the open-borders, let them all come in attitude
and
b) the anti-dress-code views expressed by the NWLC and others here:

“Especially in this Me Too movement that we’re in, schools shouldn’t be teaching students that it’s okay to scrutinize girls’ bodies ... or make them feel like they have to cover up or feel less than,” said Nia Evans, author and lead researcher of the report.
“Schools are literally showing students
how to police and judge and shame girls’ bodies, and that’s wrong.”

NWLC versus sharia is clearly a prescription for disaster.

[Barbara Ann]

MbS is quoted as saying "We are returning to what we were before - a country of moderate Islam that is open to all religions and to the world". In his own mind at least it appears MbS is confident that he can unwind the 275 year old pact between Ibn Abd al-Wahhab and his ancestor without risking the legitimacy of the Sauds' hold on power.

Can he pull it off? This matter is far beyond my ability to speculate on, but I do wonder how MbS can be so confident he can bring his country into this (or even the last) millennium and continue cozying up to the Zionist entity without going the way of Sadat. Simple hubris perhaps.

[JP Billen]

Years ago I wanted to SCUBA dive in the Red Sea. And contemplated hiking in the mountains of Jizan and Asir, the area that ibn Saud stole from Yemen in the thirties. But was too busy with job and family. Probably a good thing. Too old now. The Houthis have been sending drones and cruise missiles to that area also.

[Razor]

Having observed MbS since he has risen to Crown Prince, it is clear to me that this man is a psychopath. Above all, he lacks even a hint of those most essential qualities of a leader; vision and wisdom. He is not long for his present role, perhaps not for this world, and his country along with him. Good riddens to both.

[Diana C]

It's been a while since I retired from teaching in a large suburban American public high school. I believe some of the same problems exist still as did when I was teaching.

The rules we had in place in regard to girls' clothing choices were, in my opinion, set to protect the male faculty.

T-strap tops were usually a problem. Young girls are not always graceful. As a female teacher, I would often have to pull girls aside as they were leaving the classroom to tell them that they really should be careful not to lean in such a way that their bra-less boobs did not fall out of the tops as they sat in certain ways at their desks. (Lesson: we had to ban T-strap tops, so male teachers weren't accused of perversion as they looked out over the classroom.) The same lesson can be applied to very short skirts. I'will let you fill out the details.

It didn't matter what the body structure of the girl was; certain items of clothing were banned. One of the fads with boys that was pretty disgusting was allowing their jeans to fall loosely down to their butts (sorry for the language) so that their flashy undershorts showed above. Teachers often had to tell boys to pull up their pants.

So-----unless you feel it was o.k. for male teachers to have to look up to the ceiling as they taught their classes, I'd let the few dress rules remain.

If girls were being shamed for their bodies, that came usually from other students, both male and female. I'd say the same thing happened to some of the young boys. Those are things that happened in the hallways mostly. I can't imagine any teacher allowing that sort of bullying in a classroom. I taught in a school with approximately 1,500 students while there were about 120 adults. Figure the ratio of adult to children.

In that regard, I can say I was lucky to attend a school in which there were only 64 in my graduating class. The teachers were excellent. If I felt any body shaming it was because Twiggy was the icon of beauty at the time. I am not at all what could be called "fat," but compared to Twiggy, I was.

Most of the teachers I knew were ready to step in between students who were bullying or shaming a student if they were in a place to witness such behavior.

Another fad that rose up for a while that bothered me was that of girls wearing long pajama bottoms instead of slacks or jeans to school--often with their slippers instead of shoes. I tried not to put too much blame on the parents because often parents had to leave for work earlier than students had to leave for school.

It's one of those things that charter schools and private schools and schools of choice can control better. Those have far more parental control; parents are the ones who want school uniforms so they don't have to argue with their own kids about what they want to wear to school.

It would be nice if teachers COULD concentrate on teaching. That is true.

[Andrei Martyanov (aka SmoothieX12)]

I saw what they do to alcohol smugglers. No Jack Daniels--no go. Saudis are welcome to reside in the 14th century. One has to be a complete, pardon my French, moron to go there as a tourist. Forensic specialist? Yes, and even that is questionable, but tourist...

[Lefty_Blaker]

I have never been to SA but I have experienced the Saudi royal family here in the US. I built a store in lower Manhattan for Prince Bandar’s daughter in 2010-2012. The reason it took so long to build a 1200 ft store is because the Saudis were such bad payers! Every payment took months to get and I kept having to shut the job down due to lack of payment. In fact they were the worse payers I had ever had in my 30 year career in Manhattan working for some of the nastiest rich people in the city. It should have taken about 6 months and it went on for over 2 years. They ended up stiffing me for about $25,000 at the end. The amount had been double that and I had starting talking to my brother in law who was an ex journalist at the NYT who had become a High power consultant. He was looking into running a front page article about the Saudi royalty not paying their NY workers when
I got a call out of the blue that the Saudi rep had another $25k that they could pay me. They must have gotten wind of the article and reduced the amount into a he said/ she said amount! This is what my brother in law said. Hmmm.

Oh yeah and then there was the time the designers from LA and myself were having some political discussion about conditions in the US and the princess (with her bodyguard) came upon us and listened for a bit. This was the second time during the whole course of the job I had seen the owner of the store. She listened to us a bit and then said “I don’t understand how you do things in the US. In SA when we have problems we just chop hands and heads off.” Chilling to say the least. Thankfully I was working for them in the US.

The store closed 6 months after it opened. I don’t think it ever meant to succeed. Something to give the Princess an excuse to be in NY other than her shopping sprees during which I heard she spent enough money to easily pay for our work herself.

[Fred]

I wonder how many ex-Caliphate residents will make the trip and decide to stay?

[Bob]

Sounds like how another NYC real estate operator worked.

[Factotum]

Jordan is a fabulous tourist destination and easy to visit with rental car. Great hotels, great sights, great food, great highway and signage, and great hospitality. Welcome in Jordan.

[Factotum]

Bucket list was Red Sea scuba and went to Jordan - at the Saudi Border Wall - fabulous. Right in sight of the Saudi border guard station - did they use binoculars when we were all donning our wetsuits?

[JamesT]

You people are such wusses. Jordan, Oman, Morocco, Turkey will all be possibilities indefinitely into the future, but KSA could close up tight again any day now.

I spent a day wandering around a shopping mall in Dubai back in the aughts, and there was something electric about making eye contact with the female nationals in their Niqabs. They all had such beautiful eyes. Sometimes less is more.

Moscow in 1998 was a full on dystopia and it was an amazing place to visit. More often than not, the more f-ed up places are the more interesting they are.

[The Beaver]

I do hope that she is NOT the same daughter who is representing KSA as the Saudi Ambassador to the US ( yeah first woman ! and daughter of the guy who was in that position for 22 yrs).

[turcopolier]

JamesT

Dubai? You are a hero because you went to Dubai? In your case I hope you take the Saudis up on their offer and test the limits of their tolerance.

[JP Billen]

I'm envious. Aqaba? How was the visibility and the reef life there?

[different clue]

Hmmm . . . would I rather go to KSA and attend a public beheading and behanding? Or would I rather go to New Guinea and watch the Birds of Paradise dance? Choices . . . choices . . .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7QZnwKqopo

[confusedponderer]

Razor,
re: "Having observed MbS since he has risen to Crown Prince, it is clear to me that this man is a psychopath"

Psychopath? I don't know. It may be much simpler:

It's IMO likely 'just' a serious family (mis)education thing.

MbS had a life where could do what he wanted without any consequences. Having the poor Kashoggi murdered was just the fitting cream on that special pie.

That said, MbS iirc elder sister Hassa bint Salman (HbS) had an instance in Paris when a tradesman at the hotel iirc was dumb enough to photograph her with his smartphone.

Hassa bint Salman noticed and freaked out. She had her bodyguard whack him and tie his hands. The tradesman was, with a gun at his head, made to kiss her feet and thank her for whatever.

Very understandably, the lady woman got a trial with charges of armed violence and complicity to hold someone against his will because of that.

Probably luck for the craftsman that the princess didn't have another Mr. Bonesaw for ... interrogation ... at the hand at the time.

https://houseofsaud.com/saudi-crown-princes-sister-on-trial-for-allegedly-ordering-attack-on-french-craftsman/

MbS is rotten, HbS is rotten ... so I assume it's a family (mis)education thing. Naturally HbS's lawyers in the case immediately demanded a complete exoneration (i.e. justice, saudi style).