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11 August 2019

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walrus

this is treason.

PRC90

As an aside, note the similarities between Steele and Downer. Both carried some imprimatur of credibility based on prior government service, and popped up from no where and returned to relative obscurity after producing a document that was able to be immediately misused by others for the same purpose.

I'd wondered why anyone would want to involve Downer in these events, the man is a moron. However, one of his greatest strengths is producing wonderful well written reports, and to that extent would appear to have been chosen well.

confusedponderer

It is, however despicable the whole story is, suggesting - and in its own way entertaining - that apparently the experienced gutter lady "Eff the EU" Nuland was also involved, probably bringing in her ... regime change experience aquired in the Ukraine.

I wonder, did she ever say "Eff the Orange Man too"? Alas. Either way, more interesting to me is whether she also handed out cookies to Steel and/or Ohr?

https://orf.at/static/images/site/news/20131250/ukraine_klitschko_usa_body_a.4532409.jpg

As far as financial price of the Ohr & Steel operation goes, compared to the 5+ billion that were according to Nuland proudly poured into Ukraine to get Maidan and backstab Janukowytsch, hiring Steel to backstab somebody else - Trump - was probably way cheaper - i.e. 'however illegal, it was more economic'.

That said, I detested Nuland well before this story for her Maidan stuntery and the "Eff the EU" arrogance, but then, she really made it easy even for an at time even more benevolent observer.

Thanks for sharing and elaborating.

Patrick Armstrong

But the big question that I would be interested to get opinions on is this:
when is all this stuff going to be revealed in a way that not even the readers of the WaPo NYT et al can deny thet the entire Russia collusion/interference story is false from beginning to end?

The longer the Russia-interfered-in-our-election-and-everybody-else's lie is perpetrated, the closer we all get to nuclear annihilation. So it's a matter of some importance.

Any ideas?
One that occurs to me is that nothing will happen -- it will all dribble out over such a long time that nothing will ever be ever dramatic and simple enough to make an effect.

My other thought is that Trump & Co wants the big explosive revelations to hit the street next Mar/Apr so as to destroy the Dems in 2020.

But many of us have known the general outline of the conspiracy for a couple of years, but nothing big ever hits the street and the lies get dug in a little deeper every day that they're not exploded.

turcopolier

PA

Unless there are a lot of indictments none of this will matter.

confusedponderer

Pat,
re PA's comment "My other thought is that Trump & Co wants the big explosive revelations to hit the street next Mar/Apr so as to destroy the Dems in 2020."

I see PA's suggestion actually as a possible outcome.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Trump sending Barr and other 'like thinkers' to hunt down any Democrat they can.

Why? Three points:

#1# For one as a petty part - as a revenge for Russiagate.

As the pretty petty "Mr. 11 days" Scaramucchi about formulated it: He's not for stabbing someone in the back - he'd rather watch them in the face while stabbing them.

#2# Trump is a bad habit person.

Whenever something new comes up he tends to choose use the maximum pressure approach ... even if it doesn't makes much sense it makes him feel good.

Germany doesn't pay enough percent of the GDP for the Bundeswehr in Trump's view? Threat of exit from NATO! Threat of moving US troops to ... Trumnp Camp in Poland! Penal taxes! For instance for ... Sauerkraut (and German cars).

Never mind who's paying for all the US bases in Germany (Hint: it is NOT the US.) But, and here we're back at habits, he wants a ... higher rent for US troops.

French wine? Since Trump asserts he doesn't drink alkohol (since it would made him worse ... as if he ain't already remarkable sober) he claims that US wine 'looks better than french wine'. Oh, does it? You're sure you don't suffer from achromatopsia?

The he suggests ... probably for lack of a better idea ... penal taxes (not just for wine but also for that french digital tax that incidentally hits chronic US tax evaders like Amazon and Goodle etc!)

#3# Then it would play a part as part of the next election campaign.

In that part Trump will, as always and with a lot of tweets and typos, very loudly lament that he is victim of a totally ... unfairly unfair ... witch hunt ... by democratic ... mostly non white ... witches.

Well, afaik so far nobody has made Trump do the old school witch test by throwing him into the potomac river to see if he drowns or floats (guilty in either case).

And as far as I know nobody yet has tried to spray him with holy water also. And what about testing the effect of sunlight on de-oranged skin?

For a man who manages some 150 lies in three of his worse days there's a lamentably high probability for PA's scene to happen.

And if, the Obama D crew here suggests problematic moral and legal flexibility - I am far away from thinking that the chronic gerrymandering R's are there in any way better, much less under Trump and Pence.

plantman

So, state department honchos--Victoria Nuland, Kavalec and Sally Yates (DOJ)--all had some knowledge of what was going on, right? And so did national security advisor Susan Rice.

Doesn't that prove that Obama must have been in the loop?

I think it does.

Second, how much of Nellie Ohr's russia research actually ended up in the steele dossier? I think that it is very unlikely that Chris Steele maintained his sketchy connections in Russia after the seismic political changes in the early 2000s. It may be that much of the dossier was created out of whole cloth by Nellie Ohr who was tasked to create a narrative that jibed with Simpson's political objectives.

turcopolier

CP

They all gerrymander, all of them. Rs and Ds.

notamusedobserver

The ukraine is probably behind a great deal of the "info" the democrats and fib used..

Fred

"Never mind who's paying for all the US bases in Germany "
The USSR ceased to exist a couple decades ago and the Warsaw Pact before that. Why are we defending Germany at all? Meanwhile in Germany, don't speak badly on the internet or use a psuedonym while you do.
https://legalinsurrection.com/2019/08/germany-hundreds-probed-over-anti-migrant-comments-on-facebook/

Jim Ticehurst

To Answer Your Question Patrick...Yes there is.."Something'A "Never Trump" Operation right here in the United States and NOT Connected to Russia..or for any reason other than "Political"....You Don't Have to dig DEEP..Just follow....

Jim Ticehurst

The Operators...who Paid them..Known Data..and How They pushed Everyones Buttons..with Two Words..."Russian Collusion.." EVERY BODYS..

Factotum

Remind me why we need to hire more women to eliminate institutional sexism? Interesting common denominator among these named persons. Or is it something in the water.

Factotum

Clinton via Biden to Son Biden to Nellie Ohr?

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