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26 July 2019

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turcopolier

different clue

LJ's point is tht the Russian IO project was really a triviality ginned up by someone in the Russian IC.

The Twisted Genius

No, Larry. You are wrong on this one. Nunes was briefed on the IC findings that "Russia was engaged in aggressive and wide-ranging efforts to interfere" and that "persons involved in the Trump campaign" were in contact with Russian officials by Brennan in August or September 2016 as part of a series of one-on-one meetings with the gang of 8. Brennan provided the same briefing to each of the gang of 8 members. Trump was also informed of the Russian interference in a classified briefing on 17 August 2016. Brennan also informed the head of the FSB to knock it off in a telephone call. That's not the behavior of a diabolical coup plotter, although it doesn't mean he's not a conniving never-Trumper.

The Russian IO campaign consisted of both conservative and liberal fake accounts putting out incendiary content on both the left and right. This was in line with their original goal of sowing discord and distrust in the US political system. TEN_GOP was one of the most prolific accounts.

"Some of the Twitter accounts created by the attackers managed to be extraordinarily influential. The most retweeted account within the dataset was TEN_GOP. Created in November 2015, the account masqueraded as a group of Republicans in Tennessee. It appears to have been manually operated. In less than two years TEN_GOP managed to rack up nearly 150,000 followers. Despite only tweeting 10,794 times, the account garnered over 6 million retweets. Only a tiny fraction (1,850) of those retweets came from other accounts within the dataset. In other words, almost all of its retweets came from accounts outside the dataset, meaning many could have been real Twitter users."

https://www.symantec.com/blogs/threat-intelligence/twitterbots-propaganda-disinformation

You can see the content created and retweeted by TEN_GOP at this link:

https://medium.com/@ushadrons/this-space-is-a-repository-for-content-from-the-russian-social-media-account-ten-gop-ed7e6cf6d30

Larry Johnson

You are the one who is wrong Twisted. Devin is a friend of mine and we have talked about this. You are not a friend of Devin's and I know you have not communicated with him on this point. So, stop pretending to know shit that you know nothing about.

J

Read for yourself Hyten refusal to obey the POTUS:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5095963/General-says-REFUSE-Trump-s-nuclear-order.html

McRaven should have deferred his comments as he is still military and still bound by his Constitutional oath.

blue peacock

David

In lawsuits such as this wouldn't the FBI, CIA and other federal government agencies use the "state secrets" doctrine to essentially stymie discovery?

Why wouldn't they subpoena Assange? I'm curious why Assange told Rattner that he'd paid Seth & Aaron Rich for the DNC emails since he's always maintained that he provides absolute privacy of all informants.

Something that has perplexed me on the RCH is why Trump has not declassified? He's punted on it by passing the buck first to Rosenstein and now to Barr. Can you speculate on what's held him back?

Mightypeon

Or even someone one the sidelines of Russian IC who wanted to pretend, for Russian domestic consumption (chiefly his business rivals), that he is Russian IC without ever directly claiming this publically (doing the latter would piss Russian IC off).

blue peacock

Larry

In this interview with Maria Baritromo, Devin Nunes says Reid was briefed but he wasn't. Why doesn't Trump declassify it all? It seems that he too wants to hide what happened. Devin raises interesting questions about why weren't important figures from the Cambridge group, Svetlana Lokhova, etc not interviewed by the Mueller special counsel and Maria asks a very important question - "who was the mastermind?" as so many people including UK, Australian & Italian intelligence were involved in the possible entrapment and spying of a presidential campaign.

It would seem that the DOJ under Rosenstein and now Barr wants to hide this under the rug and all their investigations by US attorneys Huber and now Durham are designed to go nowhere. Something is clearly odd as Trump will not declassify, will not appoint a real independent special counsel and other than tweet witch hunt does not take any real action to get to the bottom of what actually happened and who orchestrated all the moving parts.

https://youtu.be/PvV9PXRo5cs

JP Billen

Reading your link beyond the headlines: Hyten is quoted as saying "if the command was 'illegal' he would tell him so, and said that together they would come up with other options."

As for McRaven:

https://www.lawfareblog.com/law-retired-military-officers-and-political-endorsements-primer

Keith Harbaugh

LJ asserts “[T]here should now be no doubt that [the plot to take out Donald Trump] was not the work of a few rogue intelligence and law enforcement officials acting on their own.”
blue peacock quotes Maria Baritromo asking “who was the mastermind” and moots the question of “who orchestrated all the moving parts”.

On the other hand, sundance seems to suggest that there was simply a "small group" of people united by their anti-Trump views.
See in particular
“Deal or No Deal – There’s a Transparency Within Two Factions of DOJ and FBI Political “Small Group”… ”, 2018-03-30
“Common Question: “How do you square Mueller in all this?”…”, 2018-03-31
“Aftermath of Mueller….”, 2019-07-25
The last article also provides a very useful bulleted list of eight issues, action items as it were, still outstanding after Mueller’s appearance before Congress.

TTG has made two assertions I would like to take exception to.
1. In his response to J, TTG mocks the idea of a soft coup:

J, the whole charge of coup or soft coup has been puzzling to me. Exactly how was the FBi and other coup plotters planning on removing Trump? Were they going to take the White House by force of arms and physically drag Trump out like the Brits did to Assange? Were they going to declare the election null and void?
Pardon me for my bluntness TTG, but that really seems to me like a series of stupid questions. That there were many in Washington, politics, and the media who have been doing everything possible to, in effect, declare the election null and void should really be quite obvious to any sensible and honest observer.
We are now seeing, and reading about, the results of their efforts.
Whether they will succeed in impeachment, the current effort was surely their aim all along. To deny that, as TTG seems to do, seems incredible to me.
As Pat Buchanan wrote way back on 2017-01-12:
“[Washington] is salivating over another Watergate, another broken president.” That's the truth and any honest and competent observer, in particular one who reads the Washington Post, should have recognized it long ago.
See also notably
“The Deep State Targets Trump”, 2017-02-16:
When Gen. Michael Flynn was forced to resign as national security adviser, Bill Kristol purred his satisfaction, “If it comes to it, prefer the deep state to the Trump state.”

To Kristol, the permanent regime, not the elected president and his government, is the real defender and rightful repository of our liberties.

2. On another issue, the FBI's 2015 warning to the DNC that their systems had been penetrated by the Russians, TTG wrote:

The sysadmin thought the warnings were a hoax for quite a while.
These half-assed telephonic warnings were a clear screw up.
Let us recall the situation in late 2015. The OPM data breach was all in the headlines. Given that, the sysadmin didn't take this warning seriously? If he suspected a hoax, he could have called the FBI himself and asked if they were behind this warning. If he didn't want to do that, he could and should have brought this to his supervisors attention (in fact, I believe he did do that, but TTG omits mentioning that).
To me, this smacks of the widespread failure of Democrats to fail to assign responsibility where it belongs. To an all too great extent, they are the party of victimhood, rather than responsibility.

The Twisted Genius

Keith, seeking to remove Trump through the constitutional process of impeachment is not a coup, soft or otherwise. Impeaching Nixon or Clinton were not coup attempts. Now if the IC pushed the idea of Russia changing votes and tried to void the election, that would be a coup attempt. Instead, both the IC and the Obama administration went out of their way to say no votes were changed and our electoral process was solid and secure. Therefore, no coup attempted or otherwise. Do you consider the birther movement to be a coup attempt?

The best account of the early days of the DNC hack was published in December 2016 by the NYT. It details the interactions of FBI SA Adrian Hawkins, Yared Tamene, the tech-support contractor at the DNC, and his boss at the DNC. Serious action wasn't initiated until the FBI physically met with the Clinton campaign in April 2016. Both the FBI and DNC screwed up. I don't get your point in trying to deny any of this took place other than as an attempt t deny the DNC was ever hacked in the first place.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/13/us/politics/russia-hack-election-dnc.html?

turcopolier

TTG

I reject your characterization of the present action of the Democratic House of Representatives as other than a campaign of persecution against the constitutionally elected president of the United States. As for the conspiracy in the intelligence community, the DNC and the Clinton campaign to prevent Trump's election, it will be interesting to view your response of many of the players are indicted.

The Twisted Genius

The Democratic House of Representatives is also constitutionally elected. The persecution, as you call it, is mutual. As for the conspiracy, we'll just have to disagree until this all plays out. Heard interesting news from Mark Zaid about his FOIA request for the full Carter Page FISA warrant. The court rejected the DOJ's claim that Trump rescinded his full declassification of the warrant. Barr has a month to try to explain his position. Trump and Barr do not want the full warrant to get out. I don't think we're going to see a lot of intel released by Barr.

Keith Harbaugh

Thank you for relinking to that NYT article. You linked to it before, and it did and does provide very helpful insight on the situation.
How we assign the burden of responsibility, there we differ.
Regarding
“I don't get your point in trying to deny any of this took place other than as an attempt t deny the DNC was ever hacked in the first place.”
I don't see in my original comment a "point in trying to deny any of this took place".
Could you clarify where you saw such a point?
Thank you.

Keith Harbaugh

Regarding the Carter Page situation, I presume you are referring to
"Judge: Trump statements muddle Freedom of Information suit for FISA warrants".
Just want to mention that for general information, and in case TTG has a better source.
My Google and news.google.com searches on
Mark Zaid Carter Page FOIA
yield zilch.

Keith Harbaugh

Just reread the article you helpfully linked to. It contains the statement:

“I had no way of differentiating the call I just received from a prank call,”
Mr. Tamene [the DNC person in question] wrote in an internal memo, obtained by The New York Times, that detailed his contact with the F.B.I.
That alleged claim of Tamene is simply not true.
As I mentioned above, he could have called the FBI himself and asked if "Special Agent Adrian Hawkins" was really who he said he was.
Just want to clarify how the situation could have been handled.

The Twisted Genius

Keith, You’re right. I read way too much into your comment and wrongly lumped you with the DNC hack deniers. You said no such thing and I apologize. I also agree with you that the DNC was responsible for securing their own systems and they failed to do so. Tamene and his boss should have done a lot more in verifying and following up on the FBI warning. Tamene did not try hard enough. My point was that SA Hawkins didn’t try hard enough either. Given that this was the DNC and there was an upcoming national election, he should have realized this was more important than just another penetration of some private entity’s network. He and his supervisor should have physically met with the DNC leadership back in 2015.

Concerning the partial summary judgement about the Carter Page FISA warrant FOIA request, my source was Mark Zaid and Bradley Moss, a partner in Zaid’s law firm. Zaid runs the James Madison Project which assists a broad range of FOIA requests and is the plaintiff in this case. This particular judgement was over the release of twenty something pages of the FISA warrant that a White House press release indicated Trump had declassified. DOJ is saying this is not so and that the pages remain classified. The judge saw a discrepancy in the DOJ position and gave the DOJ 30 days to show why those pages should not be released under the FOIA statutes. I think Barr and Trump realize releasing the full FISA warrant will not help their narrative and are fighting to keep it under wraps. Here’s a link to the court’s opinion and order on the Page FOIA request.

The Twisted Genius

Forgot the link:

https://www.usatoday.com/documents/6226339-Order-on-Motion-for-Partial-Summary-Judgment/

Fred

TTG,

The judge does not disput the president's authority on declasification, he has, however, decided that the press release is the exective order and he wants a specific note as to what was directed in regards to the President's directive on declassification. This kind of lawafre has been going on for a few years now.

JK

"I don’t think the Clinton campaign had a clue about this new phenomenon."

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/23/magazine/the-obama-campaigns-digital-masterminds-cash-in.html

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