« Open Thread 26 July 2019 | Main | Should Washington's memory not be expunged? (irony) »

26 July 2019

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

turcopolier

All

My wife was for many years an election official in Virginia. IMO Obama was right in saying that a US presidential election is impossible to "rig." The US Constitution requires that federal elections be run by the states WITHOUT federal supervision. As a result the methods and equipment in the states and the various parts of the states vary widely and the state systems are not tied together with a national electronic network as, for example, the system is in France where the result of a national election is reported on TeeVee immediately when the polls close.

Bill H

Asking the question, "Can you cite one specific case where a single vote was definitively changed by Russian meddling?" causes panic in a person who is declaiming about the evils of Russian meddling in our elections.

Alexandria

Bill H,

When you ask that question, the invariable retort is that the Russians are so clever that you wouldn't know that you were being gulled; or, when I say that I have never seen a Russian produced facebook ad, the rejoinder is that the Russians concentrated on Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Ohio and, of course, I would have been privy to the bot-sent emails and facebook ads generated by the Internet Research Agency.

The Twisted Genius

Yes, Obama and the White House were running this. Obama directed the Gang of 8 be briefed in August and September 2016 on Russian election meddling efforts and her clear effort to assist Trump. In September 2016, Obama sent CT adviser Lisa Monaco, FBI Director Comey, and Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson to brief the Gang of 12 and obtain support for a bipartisan address to the nation warning of the Russian manipulation efforts. Moscow Mitch scotched that idea, just like he’s stymieing current efforts to secure elections from foreign meddling. Instead, Obama was left with generically assuring the public that they can have faith in their election process and personally confronting Putin.

Jim Ticehurst

Yes Larry The Obama Cartel over reached..Were Over confident in That Roosters have come Home Coup...When they ran Barrack through the well connected Pipeline..from Hawaii to California..to New York..to Chicago..and The Bill..Ayers Group of Roachs..then to Harvard for His Bones...They and The Media did the Real Muddling..Hillay got her piece of the Pie..and her Group waited it out..Chocking down Their Support..But bThe Monery was good...So..The Polls and Data assured It was Then Hillarys turn and The Opposition looked Weak...Well..Along Came Mr. Trump..At than Point "Who could Have Anticipated" ?? So Over Confident...The Emails and Paper Trails prove the Over Confidence..So What Hillarys Going to Win..Right..? Oh Oh SNAFU...Actually a FUBAR Sudden lack of ant Professiona;l Judgement...that got Childish..The BIG TAKE DOWN..Comey proves Hes an Idiot..Runs Stupid Overt Operations..Take Down Trump...? Sure "The Russian..The Russian..' Youe can even Manipulate a Southern Cracker Like Mr Sessions with That One..Well...The Bear Shits in The Woods..The Muller Obama Team Shits On America...and to Their Surprise...We don't Have Hillary Clinton New World Order..and They cant even Say..."At This Point...What does all This Matter..?.

catherine

I continue to be astounded by the outrage at "Russian meddling". So some Russians used the internet to post true or false information on candidates in a election.... so what?...millions of American partisan trolls were doing the same thing for or against a candidate. We had tons of fake info written by American bloggers and posters all over the net, Facebook, twitter etc..

Its not like Putin came to the US and gave a speech to congress in favor of Trump ...as Netanyahu did in appearing before the US congress and urging them to go against President Obama's Syria policy for heaven's sake.
It is so ridiculous I have given up hope of finding enough IQs above that of a cabbage to form a sane government.

Jack

TTG

You've maintained all along that the Russians interfered in the election, yet I believe it is your position that the Russians did not change a single vote. Is that correct or do you believe the Russians changed the votes before tabulation?

What did the Russians do that the Trump and Hillary campaigns did not do? Did they also turnout the tens of thousands who showed up for Trump rallies that Hillary could never muster? Are they still turning out thousands at recent Trump rallies? I'm curious how come Brennan and Clapper could not turn out thousands to Hillary's rallies when according to our German friend "b", the omnipotent US Intel services just turned out a quarter of the population of Hong Kong to protest CCP authoritarianism?

Did the Israeli, Saudi and Chinese governments interfere in the election? How would you compare what they did to what you believe the Russians did?

Anonymous

The meddle started after the erection.

LondonBob

Obama seemed to have got a taste for spying on his domestic political opponents from monitoring Israeli attempts to block the Iran nuclear deal. I think the lock her up stuff really scared the Obama people, who had much to hide.

Fred

TTG,

You mean the kindly grandmother, Loretta Lynch, Attorney General of the United States, did not inform President Obama that the FBI had obtained a FISA warrant to surveil the Republican candidate for the presidency and members of his staff becasue he was working with Russians? Or do you mean that James Comey failed to tell his boss, Loretta Lynch; or do you mean John Brennan failed to tell Obama about that Steele dossier from Fusion GPS that Mueller know anything about; or do you mean that James Clapper failed to tell Jeh Johnson about that too? The Russians made them do all those things as part of an interference campaign, right? It couldn't have been they were corrupt and incompetant.

"Instead, Obama...." made an "If you like your doctor, you can keep you doctor" statement that he knew was completely false. Trump didn't win, Russians influenced Americans to vote for Trump, just ask the losers of the election, their paid sources and their colleagues in Congress. In fact Americans love Hilary so much she's just where in the polls right now?

The Twisted Genius

Jack, that's true. I've always maintained the Russians mounted an elaborate IO against the US election, but I know of no single instance of them changing a single vote. It's my opinion they decided deliberately not to go so far as to attempt to change votes.

What the Russians did was insert misattributed information and disinformation into the election cycle. In none of that information did the Russians say it was a product of the IRA or other Russian group. They faked the origin of their product, classic black propaganda. That is what separates the Russian IO from anything Clinton, Trump or any of their supporters did. To do so would violate US campaign and election laws. The same goes for the idea of Brennan and Clapper trying to turn out thousands for Clinton rallies. It would be egregiously illegal. USI may be doing something to encourage/support demonstrators in HK around the edges and they certainly had a heavy hand in Kiev's Maidan Square, but in the 2016 US election? Certainly not.

The Israelis influence our elections and governance primarily through AIPAC and other pro-Israeli groups. They don't hide who they are when they push their pro-Israeli agenda. They're quite open about it. They also funnel money to candidates and elected officials fairly openly. The Saudis also "buy" candidates and officials, but they're a lot quieter about it. All that is very different from the absolute covert nature of the Russian IO in the 2016 election. I have no idea what China did or is doing.

The Twisted Genius

Fred, a FISA warrant to surveil the Republican candidate for the presidency? Where did you get that? QAnon? I'm not sure if or when Obama was specifically informed of the FISA warrant on Page or of the intel garnered from that thrice renewed warrant, but I'm sure he was told about the Steele dossier. He was the one who directed Comey to brief Trump on the contents of the dossier in January 2017.

Hillary in the polls? Is that more QAnon stuff? I didn't know she was in the running for 2020. You can compare Trump with Biden in the current polls. Seems Trump does that and then proceeds to rage tweet about it.

Larry Johnson

You have no evidence for the so-called Russian IO. It is a fabrication. The lies on this are enormous. If the FBI really had detected GRU hacking of the DNC in 2015, which is claimed in the fabricated meme, then you would expect the FBI and the other counter intel elements of the USG to take action. THEY DID NOTHING.

The issue of Russian hacking only emerged when Hillary and the DNC learned that DNC emails were going to be put out by WIKILEAKS. Again, not one shred of actual evidence that the Russians did it, but blaming the Russians became a convenient excuse in a bid to divert attention from the real story--i.e,. Hillary and the DNC colluded to defeat Bernie Sanders.

The only real solid evidence of colluding with foreigners, in this case the Ukraine, comes courtesy of Hillary and her campaign. Hiring a foreign intel officer (ie. Steele) who then takes info from Russians of questionable background and spread it around as "truth". That was not a Russian IO. Pure Clinton IO.

J

This has shown two things IMO -- 1. The FBI cannot be trusted to uphold defend and protect our Constitution, as they sought actively to overturn a duly elected POTUS.; and 2 - Mueller's incompetence is astounding.

Is the only entity of the Defense Department called the U.S. Army the only ones left actually upholding, defending, and protecting our Constitution and our Constitution processes? I don't see the other entities of the DOD called Navy and Air Force doing their jobs upholding our Constitution!

Thumbs up to the Army, thumbs down to the Navy and Air Force!

blue peacock

"What the Russians did was insert misattributed information and disinformation into the election cycle...That is what separates the Russian IO from anything Clinton, Trump or any of their supporters did."

I believe supporters of both candidates did exactly what you say the Russians did - insert misattributed information & disinformation into the media stream. If you watch MSNBC or Fox on any given day there is much assertion & opinion masquerading as news. And the Twitter & Facebook and blog universe are teeming with stories and innuendo that are more fiction than fact all from anonymous accounts.

The Russia Collusion hysteria is replete with examples of "misattributed information and disinformation". It seems that yellow journalism is as American as apple pie.

The whole opaque PAC structure with names like "Americans for Democracy" funded by chain structures hiding the real financiers and calling up down is something that we see growing in every election cycle and is already of significant scale both in terms of financing and dubiousness.

It is also rather common that "experts" who are called upon to opine on issues routinely never disclose their conflicts of interest. Jeffrey Sachs and so many others on the payroll of CCP entities never disclose those payments as they extoll the virtues of offshoring our industrial base to China and are apologists for CCP espionage.

plantman

I believe Larry Johnson is right when he says:

"You have no evidence for the so-called Russian IO. It is a fabrication." In fact, Putin rejects the claim many times publicly saying that Russia does not meddle in foreign elections as a matter of policy. Maybe I'm gullible, but I find his disclaimer pretty convincing....

My question for Larry Johnson requires some speculation on his part: How did the claims of "Russia meddling" which began with the DNC and Hillary campaign, take root at the FBI, CIA and NSA???

Is there an unseen connection between the Democrat leadership and the Intel agencies??? And --if there is-- does that mean we are headed for a one-party system???

The Twisted Genius

J, the whole charge of coup or soft coup has been puzzling to me. Exactly how was the FBi and other coup plotters planning on removing Trump? Were they going to take the White House by force of arms and physically drag Trump out like the Brits did to Assange? Were they going to declare the election null and void? Instead USI and the FBI emphatically stated that no votes were changed. Obama made a point out of declaring our electoral system solid. It's not like anyone was trying to claim Trump was an illegitimate candidate not born in the US. Were the birthers trying to engineer a coup against candidate Obama? Were the Republicans trying to engineer a coup by declaring they will do anything in their power to make Obama a one term president? There was no coup attempt against Trump or Obama. Any effort to impeach either individual would be in accordance with our Constitution. That's not a coup. All this talk of a coup is just hysterics and hyperbole.

I don't understand your point about the Navy and Air Force not upholding and defending our Constitution. What do you mean by that.

Fred

TTG,

You're right, Page wasn't running for president, just, acording to the news, working for his campaign. I'm know the legal distinction; however that would give indirect access to anybody that call/texted/communicated with Page; which was discussed ad nauseum in the press for a couple of years. Thus the shorthand phrase "spied on Trump". Obama didn't bother to warn the Republican candidate that the Russians were trying to interfere in his election prior to 2017, after Trump won? That is certainly helpful and timely advice from the party of his political opponent.

Hilary's not running? No S$$$. I wonder why. So much for her perseverence. QAnon, that's quite funny. Almost as stimulating reading as Vox Day or NeonRevolt. Other press reports are indicating that Comey lied to Trump. Perhaps the House can decalssify all his testimony so the citizens of the Republic can make up thier own minds rather than resorting to QCNN or FoxAnon or another of the other 'news' services for information.

The Twisted Genius

Blue peacock, supporters of Clinton and Trump did not put out misattributed info. They both put out truth, innuendo, exaggerations, misleading info and even outright lies, but they put it out as themselves. They didn't represent themselves as someone other than who they were. The PAC structure comes close to skirting this requirement for truthful attribution, but a quick internet search blows away the facades of these PACs. What the Russians did was pure black propaganda.

rg

Larry, sorry to nitpick, but I have such regard for your work that it pains me to see the typographical error in your second sentence, where you say “his error” shortly after referring to Trump. I'm guessing that you meant to say “this error”, but it reads as if it means “Trump’s error”.

And while I'm at it, your last sentence has "it" instead of "if".

Keep up your great work for this excellent website.

Mark Logan

J,

I'm a little more charitable to the FBI. The Trumps lied their asses off to the FBI about their foreign contacts. Which IMO, wrong or right, left the FBI all but no recourse but to investigate those lies. Even if the lies were simply based in long-seated personal habits, it takes investigation to prove that is the case.

turcopolier

Mark Logan

Sadly naive in that you think the conspirators were actually acting in good faith. You think they were right when they used the Steele Dossier in applying for a FISA warrant in Colyyer's Star Chamber? Steele was a paid informant for the FBI as was Page.

turcopolier

Mark Logan

How do you know "they lied their asses off?" Mueller's report stated that no American had conspired with the Russians,

Mark Logan

I said the Trunps lied their asses off to the FBI about their foreign contacts, and that in itself could have been the cause for further investigation of the Trumps.

I had no intention of implying that means the Trumps conspired with the Russians.

Larry Johnson

Thanks. Not a nit pick. A legit criticism. Thank you very much.

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been saved. Comments are moderated and will not appear until approved by the author. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment

Comments are moderated, and will not appear until the author has approved them.

Your Information

(Name and email address are required. Email address will not be displayed with the comment.)

My Photo

July 2020

Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
      1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31  
Blog powered by Typepad