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14 July 2019

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rho

"Governor Inslee who has stated that if he is elected president he will ask Megan Rapinoe to be Secretary of State"

And Roman Emperor Caligula wanted to make his favourite horse a Senator. At least the horse was friendly and likable.

John Minehan

was the attack by those who wanted to liberate the detainees or by those who want to eliminate them?

both groups are active in the Pacific Northwest and ghave been since the days of the Brüder Schweigen.

first reports are often wrong and nether side has much to recommend them.

Valissa

Here is a video from Tim Pool on the story. Don't let the beanie fool you, this is one very sharp young man. Politically he is center left/moderate though he was more radically left when younger. He has many conservative and libertarian subscribers (who often disagree with his politics) because he is a fair journalist and commentator who is criticizing the out of control portion of the far left. He and the founder of Minds.com (part of the new alternative social media), Bill Ottman, whom he is working with very closely building up his own news service called "Subverse", both attended Trump's recent social media summit. BTW, it is a lie that this was a far right summit. More on Tim here https://www.timcast.com/about

Tim has been following the antifa story for a long time and is very knowledgeable about the power dynamics. I am currently spending a lot of time on YouTube learning about the culture wars and Tim has been a very useful source.

Armed Antifa Fire Bombs ICE Facility, Is Shot And Killed By Police https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNQR6kAHSdI (23 min)

John Minehan

"Yesterday a disloyal mob tore down the US flag at another DHS facility in Colorado and raised the Mexican national flag in its stead."

There are two sides to this: 1) people who actually feel resentment towards the USG for the detention of asylum-seekers (who mostly are not really eligible); and 2) people who want to cause trouble.

Tough to say who is behind this but none of it is a good sign,

annamissed

I live on Vashon Island, didn't personally know this guy (seen him around town), but judging from local social media, he may have been angling for a suicide by cop - while making a political statement. Vashon has a population of around 10k about which 80%+ are Dem liberal, many many gentrified SJW types, where virtue signaling is a sanctified competitive sport. Like many of these lone wolf types from the right, Van Spronsen was probably looking for a personal way out that might amplify a commitment to ideology, however misguided.

Also, the police response on the island was quite massive with literal convoys of unmarked black SUV's, helicopters, and police boats all over the little island.

turcopolier

John Minehan

Such actions are treasonous and should be treated as such. This is clearly insurrection. their motivations are irrelevant.

annamissed

Having lived here for 30 years, I've never seen or heard of any leftist connections here to Antifa. If anything Van Spronsen may have had a sympathetic social media connection to them. I don't know, but will likely come out subsequently. I will however underline the "gentrified" liberal nature of the political climate on the island, usually a dozen or so people with signs and candles at the 4 way stop in town.

John Minehan

Motivations and acts make crimes. the nature of the motivation helps define what kind of crime.

People doing this as an ironic prank are a different kind of threat than people doing it because they honestly don't think they can get justice under the ambit of the USG and are trying to change the political dispensation.

John Minehan

"Also, the police response on the island was quite massive with literal convoys of unmarked black SUV's, helicopters, and police boats all over the little island."

"Yeah, I'm sure that will help.

Still, a lot less able bunch than some of the violent types on the Right, who have been in violent situations and have been preparing for this since the 1980s.

turcopolier

John Minehan

No. An attack on a federal installation is an act of rebellion. It is not a "prank."

turcopolier

Jon Minehan

You obviously want to attribute this tot the right without any evidence at all. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jul/14/man-dies-as-police-shootout-follows-firebomb-attack-on-immigration-centre

Are you also an anarchist from antifa?

Terry

The mob or the oligarchy, choices haven't changed much since Roman times it seems.

The constitution, our government, institutions, and legal process are still our best hope. and I'd love to see both of the above with reduced influence and government restored to its founding purpose.

"we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth." - Gettysburg Address by Abraham Lincoln

We need to require Civics classes K-High school as a strong component of education.

"Liberty, as Augustus and his supporters saw it, meant the freedom from domestic unrest and foreign interference that came only with the security and political stability that Augustus provided. Augustus’s liberty meant that Roman property rights remained valid. It opened economic opportunities to new segments of the Roman population. And it took control of the city and its empire away from an increasingly corrupt senatorial elite whose mismanagement had led to civil war. In the 20s BC, many Romans agreed with Augustus that liberty could not exist if insecurity persisted. They came to believe that freedom from oppression could only exist in a polity controlled by one man.

This book explains why Rome, still one of the longest-lived republics in world history, traded the liberty of political autonomy for the security of autocracy. It is written at a moment when modern readers need to be particularly aware of both the nature of republics and the consequences of their failure. We live in a time of political crisis, when the structures of republics as diverse as the United States, Venezuela, France, and Turkey are threatened. Many of these republics are the constitutional descendants of Rome and, as such, they have inherited both the tremendous structural strengths that allowed the Roman Republic to thrive for so long and some of the same structural weaknesses that led eventually to its demise.

This is particularly true of the United States, a nation whose basic constitutional structure was deliberately patterned on the idealized view of the Roman Republic presented by the second-century BC author Polybius. This conscious borrowing from Rome’s model makes it vital for all of us to understand how Rome’s republic worked, what it achieved, and why, after nearly five centuries, its citizens ultimately turned away from it and toward the autocracy of Augustus.

No republic is eternal. It lives only as long as its citizens want it. And, in both the twenty-first century AD and the first century BC, when a republic fails to work as intended, its citizens are capable of choosing the stability of autocratic rule over the chaos of a broken republic. When freedom leads to disorder and autocracy promises a functional and responsive government, even citizens of an established republic can become willing to set aside long-standing, principled objections to the rule of one man and embrace its practical benefits. Rome offers a lesson about how citizens and leaders of a republic might avoid forcing their fellow citizens to make such a tortured choice.

Rome shows that the basic, most important function of a republic is to create a political space that is governed by laws, fosters compromise, shares governing responsibility among a group of representatives, and rewards good stewardship. Politics in such a republic should not be a zero-sum game. The politician who wins a political struggle may be honored, but one who loses should not be punished. The Roman Republic did not encourage its leaders to seek complete and total political victory. It was not designed to force one side to accept everything the other wanted. Instead, it offered tools that, like the American filibuster, served to keep the process of political negotiation going until a mutually agreeable compromise was found. This process worked very well in Rome for centuries, but it worked only because most Roman politicians accepted the laws and norms of the Republic. They committed to working out their disputes in the political arena that the republic established rather than through violence in the streets. Republican Rome succeeded in this more than perhaps any other state before or since.

If the early and middle centuries of Rome’s republic show how effective this system could be, the last century of the Roman Republic reveals the tremendous dangers that result when political leaders cynically misuse these consensus- building mechanisms to obstruct a republic’s functions. Like politicians in modern republics, Romans could use vetoes to block votes on laws, they could claim the presence of unfavorable religious conditions to annul votes they disliked, and they could deploy other parliamentary tools to slow down or shut down the political process if it seemed to be moving too quickly toward an outcome they disliked. When used as intended, these tools helped promote negotiations and political compromises by preventing majorities from imposing solutions on minorities. But, in Rome as in our world, politicians could also employ such devices to prevent the Republic from doing what its citizens needed. The widespread misuse of these tools offered the first signs of sickness in Rome’s republic."

https://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2019/01/11/rome-america-edward-watts-mortal-republic

How long before Americans start to demand a tyrant to stop civil unrest and foreign influence?

Almost seems as if the media has a playbook to lead in this direction.

John Minehan

No, just someone who has seen first reports be wrong a time . . . or ten.

It appears it is someone from the Left. It also may not be someone who is part of no group at all.

But, let's see. So far, not a pattern.

I see an issue with both Antifa and the Far Right. Spartacists AND Freikorps created issues after the Kaiser fell . . . this is generally NOT a good sign . . . .

Fred

John,

Can't possibly be Antifa activist, that would violate the narrative. Kind of like James Hodgkinson, the man who attempted to assasinate James Scalise and a couple dozen other Republicans. It's not like the leftist street force has been enable/coddled by politicians on the West Coast for a number of years now.

rho

John,

sounds to me like the "resentful" people who formed the mob are Mexican nationalists who don't think that the law applies to them.

turcopolier

John Minehan

I judge that you are some kind of lefty troll, and an ignorant one as well. The thing about the "s-2 section" was hilarious.

turcopolier

terry

The Gettyburg address thing is a crock. The South did not threaten government of, by and for the people in any way. "All we ask is to be left alone."

John Minehan

"The thing about the "s-2 section" was hilarious."

Yeah, only one of the two I had at the BDE Level was in combat . . . .

Fred

John,

The RW extremests are all over the left wing twitterverse but don't seem to have actually done much in the way of actual violence. Unlike the gangs that have infiltrated the LAPD.
https://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-fbi-investigating-sheriff-20190711-story.html

Eric Newhill

John Brown's body lies a moldering I the grave....

I think after Trump wins re-election, and these insurrectionists escalate to new heights of folly, the social justice democrats (including Bernie) and their media apparatus are going to have to be designated a terrorist organization.

Trump will be free to deport as many of their illegal allies as he wishes to- and he should.

It might be full on madness.

Eric Newhill

Valissa,
These days, a center left/moderate is about the equivalent of Fidel Castro.

Porkupine

JM—
Reports I’ve read have confirmed ANTIFA poetaster “has been identified as Willem Van Spronsen, a man with a record of attacking police during a protest at the facility a year ago. Antifa activists are claiming the attacker as one of their own.”

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/07/tacoma-ice-facility-terror-attacker-ided-as-antifa-activist/

Porkupine

JM-
“has been identified as Willem Van Spronsen, a man with a record of attacking police during a protest at the facility a year ago. Antifa activists are claiming the attacker as one of their own.”

Deluded.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/07/tacoma-ice-facility-terror-attacker-ided-as-antifa-activist/

Porkupine

ANY leftist who is “down” can join antifa.
It is VERY popular, even if hardcore membership is sparser.

The name ANTIFA is somewhat new—a euro import—but it’s the same as the old ‘black block’, and I’m sure has overlap with ELF, ALF, etc.

All ‘gentrified’ groups, as most/all ‘anarchist’ groups are, IMO.

This ain’t 30s Spain—but they claim that descent.

Porkupine

He got what he wanted—
And pretty sure the cops are not traumatized by this one.

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