Who knew that eating garlic was haram, or maybe just discouraged in Islam? Not me.

"A shooting at the Garlic Festival in Gilroy, California injured 15 people and killed 3 more, bringing a horrific end to the popular annual event attended by thousands.

A 6-year-old boy was one among those killed, his father said.

“My son had his whole life to live and he was only 6,” the father of Stephen Romero told NBC Bay Area. “That’s all I can say.”

The wounded were taken to multiple hospitals, and their conditions ranged from fair to critical, with some in surgery Sunday night. At least five were treated and released.

Gilroy police said at a press conference that officers engaged the shooter in less than a minute, though the scene was still considered active and nearby areas were kept on lockdown into the night."  usatoday

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/07/29/gilroy-garlic-festival-shooting-what-we-know/1854727001/

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‘Umar ibn al-Khattāb (may Allah be pleased with him) is reported to have delivered a Friday sermon. In it he said: “O people, you eat two plants that I only find offensive: onion and garlic. I saw the Messenger of Allah (may Allah's peace and blessings be upon him) and if he detected their odor on a man in the mosque, he would order [the man] to be taken out to Al-Baqī‘. So anyone who [wants to] eat them, let them eliminate [their odor] by cooking.''

Explanation

‘Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) told those who were attending the Friday sermon that they “ate two offensive plants: onion and garlic”. Arabs use the word ''offensive” for objectionable and reprehensible words, actions, possessions, food, or people. This is established in a Hadīth that Jābir (may Allah be pleased with him) reported from the Prophet (may Allah's peace and blessings be upon him) who said: “Anyone who eats from this offensive tree let them not come close to our mosque.” [Muslim] “…onion and garlic”: Everything that has an offensive odor, such as radish, leeks, tobacco, and cigarettes are included here. Onions and garlic are mentioned in particular because they are eaten often. Leeks are stipulated in a Hadīth reported by Jābir ibn ‘Abdullāh (may Allah be pleased with him) and narrated by Muslim. So if anyone smelled of onion or garlic in the mosque, they would be ordered to be taken out as far as Al-Baqī‘, because it offends not only people but also the angels, as was related in an authentic Hadīth. In Ibn Mājah, we read: ''At the time of the Messenger of Allah (may Allah's peace and blessings be upon him) if a foul odor was detected on a man, I would see him seized by the arm and taken out to Al-Baqī‘.” “So anyone who [wants to] eat them, let them eliminate [their odor] by cooking.” This is because cooking eliminated the odor and if the odor is eliminated, one may enter the mosque because the reason for the prohibition no longer exists. Cooking onion and garlic thoroughly is required if someone wishes to enter the mosque for prayer or any other purpose. If it is not time for prayer, one may eat them raw. The command to cook them is meant to prevent offending others.  hadeethenc.com

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Well pilgrims,  SWMBO and I visited the fair town of Gilroy, California many years ago whilst studying Arabic at the Defense Language Institute at Monterrey, California.  She has always been diligent in researching and directing our visitations throughout regions where we have lived.  Gilroy bills itself as the garlic growing capital of the universe, although I think there are parts of Syria which could have contested the title before the outbreak of civil war.  Driving through little towns in central Syria it was interesting to see many shops and homes adorned with hanging bundles of white garlic. 

I, personally, love the "stinking rose."  For me, a dish without garlic is a disappointment.  There are exceptions. Strawberry shortcake may be one.  Garlic is widely used in Lebanese and Syrian cooking.  There is a lovely white dipping sauce eaten in Lebanon that reeks of garlic. I love it and always ask for more of this to be brought to the table.

But, alas, there ARE several hadiiths in different "books" (collections) of hadiths that strongly express opposition to eating raw garlic and/or onions.  Evidently the Prophet did not like the smell of either and told the originator of these various hadiths that if people ate either they should stay away from the mosque lest the angels themselves be offended by the odor.  Well, someone recounted that he had said that.  On the other hand, his favorite wife, Aisha let it be known that the last meal He ate had garlic in it. 

For those uninformed or generally uninterested Islam generally considers both Qur'an, (the uncreated literal thought of God transmitted to the Prophet), and hadith, (stories supposedly recounting the utterance and practice of the Prophet and early community [Umma]) to be scriptural bases of all else in the faith, jurisprudence, etc.)  There are, of course a wide variety of collections of hadith accepted as valid by differed consensus (ijma') groups.  And, as someone will remind me, the Ibadhis do not think the Qur'an to be "uncreated."

In any event it seems odd that this rifle toting scoundrel cut his way through a security fence to avoid the guards and police. Once inside the perimeter he opened fire at random targets with some sort of semi-auto rifle firing in bursts of three or four rounds that sound like a "bump stock." Or not. 

The police killed him quickly but as of this writing he remains unidentified.  It will be interesting to find out what this Garlic Avenger had in what passed for his mind.  pl

https://hadeethenc.com/en/browse/hadith/8953

Comments

[Eric Newhill]

I was thinking that might have a vampire or, since he was apparently killed and we have to assume the police weren't using silver bullets, one of a vampire's demented mortal helpers, like Renfield.

They better keep an eye on the body and make sure it doesn't come back to life in the morgue.

[The Beaver]

One can't enjoy Shish Taouk without taoum (the garlic sauce).

[optimax]

Santino William Legan is identified as the mass shooter. He was half Italian and half Iranian, must have felt conflicted about all the garlic in his pasta sauce. He has posted about a book called "Might Is Right" by Ragnar Redbeard, a Social Darwinist,anarchist, racist, white supremacist tome according to the following article.

https://heavy.com/news/2019/07/santino-william-legan/

"Why overcrowd towns and pave more open space to make room for hordes of mestizos and Silicon Valley white twats?” he wrote on his Instagram page. He sounds confused and angry at everyone but the media will play him up as a white supremacist, I'm sure.

[reggie meezer]

The shooter was part Iranian & part Italian. He was into Anarchist Communism.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EAqWn-wVAAAKC3t?format=jpg&name=large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EAqWoqsUYAEo6du?format=jpg&name=large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EAqWpZLUYAA7ZKl?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

[The Twisted Genius]

Seems both the Qur'an and hadith are really saying "For the love of Allah (PBUH)! Use a breath mint, buddy!" which is a universally applicable sentiment. I like garlic, but I'm not an extremist about it. SWMBO doesn't and doesn't appreciate my love of the stinking rose.

I see the white supremacists and the SJWs are passing the shooter back and forth like a hot potato. One of the interesting things I've heard is that Italians are not white, just a bunch of swarthy Mediterranean types. I guess being of Baltic Lithuanian extraction, I'm not white either. Well my ancestors did take part in defeating the Teutonic Knight crusaders. Damn they hold a grudge.

[akaPatience]

No self-respecting Italian would or could shun garlic. The shooter must have identified more with his Iranian rather than Italian heritage if hatred of garlic was his motivation.

What a world, I swear, if garlic can trigger mass shootings. SMH...

[turcopolier]

TTG

Have you considered the possibilities that your bride may be a vampire or a crypto-muslim? OTOH she may have this gastronomic disability as a genetic defect. pl

[The Twisted Genius]

She grew up in a house where her Irish grandmother did most of the cooking. She was a saint, but not a friend of spices and seasoning. Come to think of it, she didn't like those swarthy Mediterranean types, either.

[Bill H]

I am the cook in my house, and SWMBO maintains that it is unlikely to the point of near impossibility that one could use too much garlic in a dish. She comes home when I'm cooking and exclaims with delight, "Oh good, I smell garlic."

[Julian]

it's ironic meme language, TTG. It's a caricature of 'purity spiraling' (a term that came out of LessWrong), and a pre-deconstruction of liberal attempts to introduce uncertainty into ethnic historical continuity.

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHBF_enNZ750NZ750&biw=1536&bih=674&tbm=isch&sxsrf=ACYBGNRl6uAYffyBSu_sisKGT7T9PNYRKA%3A1564437276415&sa=1&ei=HGs_Xbv0GIuGyAP4wLdQ&q=finnish+mongol+meme&oq=finnish+mongol+meme&gs_l=img.3..0.47682.49026..49149...0.0..0.228.1904.0j2j7......0....1..gws-wiz-img.......35i39j0i24j0i30.Qs-nLcbge_4&ved=0ahUKEwi78oiBj9vjAhULA3IKHXjgDQoQ4dUDCAY&uact=5#imgrc=O27MjZfU3eO81M:

There's another example above, the 'mongol finn' meme, started by Finnish 4channers.

[turcopolier]

TTG

Ah, the joys of Irish cooking! It remains a puzzlement for me how the Irish managed to starve in The Famine on an island surrounded by an ocean full of fish. My Catholic Scots ancestors who had been resident in Louth for a hundred years left in 1828 well before The Famine. "Oh, Danny Boy ...."

[John Minehan]

Hinduism (and especially) Jainism prohibits eating onions. I wonder if that was an influence?

[turcopolier]

Julian

I am an old man. Explain to me what the hell you are talking about.

[Amir]

Every kabab place in Iran puts raw onions on their Koubideh dish for the guests. Where did the Hadith come from, unbeknownst to 80.000.000 Iranians?

[The Twisted Genius]

Another puzzlement is the large number of Irish sailors who can't swim. They drowned in large numbers through the ages. I think it had something to do with Irish Catholic prudery. I love them dearly, but they got some crazy quirks... just like all of us.

[Fred]

Perhaps they have too much garlic in Chicago, what with 9 killed and 39 wounded over the weekend.
https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2019/07/29/weekend-shootings-gun-violence-4/

[Patrick D]

Remarkable that Islam would take any kind of anti-garlic position given that I acquired the taste for it in the Middle East.

Strains of white supremist-ish identity and Iranian identity are loosely linked through Aryan identity. I recall learning the Shah had an interest in that idea. That general sense of identity also applies northern Indians as well versus the Dravidians in the south of the country.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan

[Artemesia]

When I was a kid we lived in walking distance of the steel mill that employed most of the neighbors. We were "Diversity is our strength" before its time: my Italian parents traded canned tomatoes and home-made bread for live chickens from the Irish family next door. When I delivered goods to the Irish grandmother, she would sit me down at the kitchen table and serve up saltine crackers slathered with butter sooo thick.

It never occurred to me that the Irish had any such thing as cuisine.
Not like us darkie Italians.
(Me plenty pale face. When I visited Iran, Iranian women we met on a bus marveled at my green eyes.)
My favorite Iranian dish is fesenjan made with eggplant. I make it with just a hint of garlic but a ton of fresh basil. Maybe the late Iranian-Italian American shooter's identity got as twisted as his taste buds.

[The Twisted Genius]

Julian, thanks for giving me another reason for staying away from 4chan except for an occasional anthropological foray. It's a place where assholes act like assholes to impress other assholes. Beyond that, there is some truth to all that Mongol Finn stuff. Before and during the Bronze Age, there was significant migration and interbreeding from northern Central Asia to the current Finno-Baltic and Russian regions. This history also lends some truth to the saying "scratch a Russian, find a Tatar" that I mentioned a day or two ago.

[LG]

Jains make considerable efforts not to injure plants in everyday life as far as possible. Jains only accept such violence in as much as it is indispensable for human survival, and there are special instructions for preventing unnecessary violence against plants.[33][34][35] Strict Jains don’t eat root vegetables such as potatoes, onions, roots and tubers, because such root vegetables are considered ananthkay.[21] Ananthkay means one body, but containing infinite lives. A root vegetable such as potato, though from the looks of it is one article, is said to contain infinite lives in it. Also, tiny life forms are injured when the plant is pulled up and because the bulb is seen as a living being, as it is able to sprout.[36][37][38] Also, consumption of most root vegetables involves uprooting and killing the entire plant, whereas consumption of most terrestrial vegetables doesn't kill the plant (it lives on after plucking the vegetables or it was seasonally supposed to wither away anyway). Green vegetables and fruits contain uncountable, but not infinite, lives. Dry beans, lentils, cereals, nuts and seeds contain a countable number of lives and their consumption results in the least destruction of life

[different clue]

I looked at that link Julian brought, and looked at one of the URLs for one of the pictures. It was going into close detail about all the various Finno-Ugrian peoples in Finland and Russia and etc.

As almost a side-thought, it offered a picture of someone captioned "world's most famous Chuvash" And indeed the person in the picture is so famous that everyone here will know his name. And it reminded me of when Babak Makkinejad assured me that Lenin was Jewish, not part Kazakh as I had thought. So if the long-silent Babak Makkinejad is still somewhere reading these threads, this is for Babak Makkinejad.
World's most famous Chuvash.
https://evolutionistx.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/800px-lenin_cl.jpg

[rho]

Garlic is haram? This place surprises me again and again with the things I learn here. It must be an example of where hadiiths are only followed and remembered selectively - but it is a very good example to keep in mind for debates with ultra-fundamentalists.

Regarding the half-Iranian festival shooter and his possible motivations, this reminds me of a strange shooting that happened in Munich in July 2016: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Munich_shooting

Iranian-German teenage shooter with dual nationality, almost all victims Turks or gypsies, and then this curious exchange, which I can confirm, I still remember having seen the video:

"A video distributed online showed a gunman firing at pedestrians outside McDonald's. He then moved on to the shopping mall itself. Another video showed the gunman walking alone on the roof of a nearby car park before opening fire again. He was heard shouting 'I am German' (Ich bin Deutscher) and 'I was born here' (Ich bin hier geboren) after an onlooker shouted anti-Turkish statements and other abuse at him. According to Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, the gunman also shouted back 'Shit Turks'"

[anon]

In 2016 election year I saw Hilary Clinton's xrays on 4chan.she had ops on her hip.seems like they were passing around her medical history. I could be mistaken.The whole site especially/pol was infested by anti Clinton stuff including pizzagate.

[Cortes]

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/276066.The_Great_Hunger

is a great introduction to the topic and contains very interesting explanations of the inaccessibility of seafood for much of the population.

[turcopolier]

Cortes

I don't buy any argument thattries to explain why millions starved while the sea was nearby. But, like TTG I am someone whose business was teaching the ignorant and inept how to survive. DOL. I have taught ignorant peasants to fish.