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30 July 2019

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casey

Mr. Colonel;

I am probably being naive, as usual, but when i saw their Nazi-like regalia and black outfits and masks, I'd assumed Antifa was an agitprop group whose antics were scripted as a narrative piece to keep the proles scared and squabbling and distracted. I figured Antifa for a kind of contemporary Hoover-esque CointelPro op re-imagined for the digital age, and directed by quasi-governmental ops (Soros or one of his ilk?). As usual, I am probably wrong, but their theatrical tactics have the same reek of that agitprop preacher that was going around years back demonstrating at the funerals of veterans who he decided were gay and damned, which struck me at the time as the worst sort of ham-handed, keep-the-proles-distracted psyop, brought to us with our own tax dollars. Antifa feels very Bibi to me, which is all the more reason to ban them, though I'm sure you're right that there is no mechanism to do so.

Jim Ticehurst

Anarchist.."A Punch in the nose is Quite Educational" ?? It is a little known Fact That Mass Muderer Jarred Lee Loughner..Who Shot Congress woman Gabrielle Gifford in the Head.with a Glock 19...Murdered a U.S. District Judge..Killed a 9 Year Old Child on Janurary 8..2011 and Was Charged with 19 counts of Murder and Attempted Murder In Arizona.. .. Loughner.was a Hard Core Anarchist..He frequently used Drugs and Magic Mushroom...He constantly wore His Head phones..Listening to His Favorite Band...."Fuck the Flag"and other Heavy Metal Bands that sang about Anarchy.. Anti America..Music..He had recently gone to a Large Open Air Concert in Arizona by a European Band..Who Decorated the Stage all over with Red..White and Black t Banners.The Lyrics were all Revolutionary and Anarchist...When Gabby Gifford came to Town for a Public Apperance...He saw his "Target of Opportuunity" All those Poor Souls "took a Hit" for His Cause.Anarchy....Hatred of the United States Government..

turcopolier

ligurion

Do you have any actual experience of working in US law enforcement or the intelligence community. I suspect not. If you had you would know that the these agencies do not set out to manipulate US public opinion as you suggest. Too much time in libraries and reading the papers of other lefties leads to fantastical group think. It is one thing for scoundrels like Brennan and Clapper to enter into a conspiracy to further their personal interests but it would be impossible to launch the "Trust" like operation that you dream of.

Mark Logan

Political parties being exempt from RICO is a good thing.

Or maybe not...

Peter C

It is well established that the police infiltrated various protest groups at the G20 summit in Toronto a few years ago (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/g20-g8-summit-opponents-infiltrated-by-police-1.1059275), and there is strong evidence that such infiltrators have instigated violence at this and other protests (https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-toronto-g20-riot-fraud-undercover-police-engaged-in-purposeful-provocation/19928). Indeed, the Quebec Provincial Police have even admitted doing so (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCRsj06wT64&NR=1).

This is not to suggest that all others in attendance are angels, but it does support Ligurio's contention that authorities use such methods to deligitimize (and to justify ignoring) the demands of protestors.

Peter C

Maybe Americans are better behaved, but as outlined in my reply to Lugorio one of the largest law enforcement agencies in Canada has admitted to such dirty deeds. With all due respect, perhaps you overestimate the morals of certain organizations.

Divadab

They’re everywhere. DEA has a huge presence on the West coast . I’m sure both Portland and Seattle have large FBI contingents. The DIA is also here in numbers-due to significant military presence. And this neck of the woods is very popular with retired letter agency types - who reputedly never really retire: consider all the work our worthy host does right here in his retirement!

A favorite game in activist circles is “spot the FBI agent “ - when I was new around here I got so tagged for a while until people figured out how unlikely an FBI agent I really was.

Divadab

I learned a lot from the few punches in the nose I took. Haven’t you ever been in a scrap?

jonst

Col, I would think, if one wanted to do so, that it might be worthwhile for LE to reexamine the RICO Statute. I am not suggesting this. Yet. But as a starter it might be worth a cursory look.

turcopolier

jonst

Thanks "LE?"

turcopolier

PeterC

Both of the comments supporting Ligurio are examples from Canada and are examples of the RCMP infiltrating street actions to discredit and deflect them. That might happen in the US in the case of a riot in some city but IMO it would be the local police, not the FBI (the US equivalent of RCMP) who would have the action. Ligurio was not talking about that. He/she/it was talking about controlling a group like Anitifa as a strategic political tool. I don't think an American national police or intelligence could be used that way. Someone in the agency would spill the beans to the media or Congress.

jonst

sorry. Law Enforcement. A long time ago I did one hell of a lot of research, not as a 'crusade', but as a job for a client, the State of Maine, on RICO possibilities against the tobacco companies. It is a very complex, and flexible, creative, statute. Which should not be read as recommending its use. But, just saying...

Linda

Sorta harmless until they drive a car into a crowd and actually kill someone

turcopolier

Seamus Padraig

But you don't actually KNOW about this. do you?

turcopolier

Linda

You have no condemnatory words for Antifa?

Ligurio

The FBI has a long history of infiltrating domestic left-leaning and anti-war political groups. This is not a controversial point.

https://jacobinmag.com/2018/08/fbi-infiltration-new-left-aoki-sds

https://www.politico.com/blogs/under-the-radar/2011/01/anti-war-group-active-at-2008-gop-convention-claims-fbi-infiltration-032287

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO

https://theintercept.com/2017/01/31/hidden-loopholes-allow-fbi-agents-to-infiltrate-political-and-religious-groups/

https://rightsanddissent.org/news/pbs-documentary-sheds-light-chilling-fbi-policies-regarding-infiltration-political-groups-informants/


Fred

Divadab,

You mean antifa is engaged in criminal drug activity that would give probable cause to the Drug Enforcement agency to investigate their activities? Shockingly there have been zero news reports about that. The defense intelligence agency is active in Portland? That's actually funny. The only military bases near Portland are Oregon national guard. Would retired three letter types include NEA, NHS, DOE and so on? Gotta watch those retirees, just look what they did to Florida.

turcopolier

Ligurio

Yes. They infiltrate criminal groups with possible prosecution as a goal, not to use them as tools.
give me an example of infiltration for manipulation.

Jim Ticehurst

Yes Liguro...You find out from such Invntigations and Infiltration...That Organized Radical Groups like this..have among their trusted members..a U.S.Navy Sailor...who believes His Nuclear powered Aircraft Carrier needs to be Sabotaged.."Blown Up.."I believe the Infiltration for Manipulation is mostly going on in All Types of NON..government owned "Media"

Kilroy

I'm an antifa. I'm tired of seeing people misled about who and what we are. I want to set the record straight.

The word "antifa" is a contraction of "anti-fascists." That's all it means, nothing else. Don't mistake the Black Bloc for the anti-fascist movement. It's a tactic that some antifa employ some of the time. It's not the main thing we do. It's just the only part that gets media coverage.

Anti-fascists are numerous and diverse. I'm a life long anti-fascist. I don't wear a mask. I'm 70. I look like somebody's grandfather. I dress like the guy next door. My wife is a Jew. That makes me a race traitor, so Nazis want to kill us both. Antifa want to stop them. Guess which side I favor.

It is true that some antifa are Communists. Most are not. I certainly am not. I don't care what else any other antifa believe (or don't). It doesn't matter. They're fighting Nazis, fascists and white supremacists in general. That's good enough for me. I don't care if you're a Democrat, a Republican, a Communist. I don't care if you're a nun raping baby eater. If you're against the filthy Nazis and their equally guilty fellow travelers and enablers, you yourself are an antifa. You're on our side, so let's go. Time's a-wasting. Roll up your sleeves. There's work to do. Anti-fascism is a big tent. If such mortal enemies as Churchill and Stalin could bury the hatchet long enough to crush the Wehrmacht, we can set aside our differences to face this existential threat together.

Antifa are not terrorists. We have killed no one. The violent right are murdering people wholesale. Virtually all terrorism in this country is committed by far-right extremists. They've shot up churches, synagogues and temples. One of them shot innocent shoppers in the back in cold blood. They even blew up a day car facility. They stab and club antifa, and innocent bystanders,at demos. They slashed three of our throats and ran a crowd of us down, killing one and injuring many. They're a murderous death cult with blood on its hands. They must be stopped. The government isn't doing it, so it's up to we the people.

The street brawls that the media dwell on are the tip of the iceberg. There's a lot more to antifa than what you're being shown. If punching Nazis was, per se, enough to do the job, their movement would have died out in the '80s. I know. I was there. It didn't work. Today, antifa fight only when attacked. Most of our time and energy is spent on the far more effective strategy of intelligence gathering and dissemination. We dox these vermin and expose them to their families, their employers and their neighbors. We defund them. We deplatform them. We shame them in public.

It's working, but we have a long way to go. It won't be easy. They have friends in high places. We don't. No, antifa are not funded by Democrats. Democrats hate us and have said so in public repeatedly. Blaming antifa on Soros reminds the historically literate among us of the last time a demagogue and his gang blamed Jewish boogeymen for their country's ills. People, especially in the media, blame antifa on everything but the truth. If you're going to blame anyone for anti-fascists, blame the fascists themselves. When there are no fascists, there will be no anti-fascists. Until then, the struggle continues.

The last time we let fascists rally in the streets, it led to 50+ million dead. Never again. Save lives, nip fascism in the bud. Join us. Do your part. History will remember.

John Minehan

Charlottesville reminded me a lot of the clashes between the Freikorps and the Spartacist after the fall of the Kaiser.

Hardly an historical parallel that bodes well . . . .

turcopolier

Kilroy

Thanks for posting your manifesto. There will be a lot of comment. Explain to us who the Nazis and fascits are at present in American society.

Eric Newhill

Kilroy,
One problem is that you have decided to take it upon yourself to supersede the first amendment.

The next problem is how you [broadly] define "fascist", "Nazi", etc.

Apparently anyone who doesn't think and act as you'd like, is a fascist. Ironically, that approach to society makes you the Nazi. You are prepared to attack those who hold different opinions. You have placed yourself in the role of the final arbiter of truth, justice and right-think.

Antifa-watcher

"Kilroy":
You wrote

One of them shot innocent shoppers in the back in cold blood. They even blew up a day car facility. They stab and club antifa, and innocent bystanders,at demos. They slashed three of our throats and ran a crowd of us down, killing one and injuring many.
Could you provide specifics on those claims? Or is this just another series of lies coming from antifa?

for your consideration

Local antifa members I know talk and act within a defensive posture. They are afraid of neo-Nazis and worry that they cannot rely on the police to protect them and their families. They argue among themselves about whether challenging neo-Nazi threats with a violent response only helps neo-Nazi groups recruit. Maybe the sort of violence-happy dopes other contributors to this thread focus on really exist and pose a threat to public welfare, but the people I know are not like that.

If you want to understand antifa, you'd best start not with Soros but with a study of police-community relations and appreciate how in some parts of the country people don't believe the police can be counted on.

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