"Antifa" (US) is a domestic subversive and terrorist movement, but there is no present way to outlaw them..

"The principal feature of antifa groups is their use of direct action,^[12] with conflicts occurring both online and in real life.^[13] They engage in varied protest tactics, which include digital activism, property damage, physical violence, and harassment against those whom they identify as fascist, racist, or on the far-right.^[18]

Activists involved in the movement tend to be anti-capitalists^[19] and subscribe to a range of ideologies, typically on the left. They include anarchists, socialists and communists along with some liberals and social democrats.^[26] Their stated focus is on fighting far-right and white supremacist ideologies directly, rather than through electoral means.    Wiki on Antifa

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_(United_States)

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I spent time this AM seeking the legal authorities needed to outlaw Antifa as the violent, seditious pastiche of anti-American lefty groups that it is.

I found none.  The US AG used to have a list of subversive Groups;  The Communist Party, Nazi Party, The Black Dragon Society, The Knights of the White Camellia, etc.  This was a useful list.  It could be used to exclude Dragoneers, etc. from federal employment, personnel security clearances for federal information and it made surveillance of such people by the FBI automatically authorized.

But, alas, Nixon abolished the list.  Try to come to terms with that, lefties.

At present there does not seem to be a suitable tool in the equipment of DHS or the FBI,

That, actually, is a good thing.  Some future administration would love to shut down opposition groups if it had the legal tools.

Go meet them in the streets!  Go greet them en masse. They think they will like that.  See if they do pl

Comments

[Thirdeye]

Antifa will not be held legally accountable as long as ruling political establishments in their stronghold cities such as Portland OR and Berkeley CA find them useful for intimidating opposition. The mayors of both cities made winks and nods towards Antifa after they committed violence against their political opponents.

[The Twisted Genius]

If we can't outlaw the KKK who has killed multiple people, we'll never be able to outlaw Antifa, who have yet to kill anybody. At least they can be arrested and prosecuted as individuals when committing violent crimes.

[The Twisted Genius]

BTW Colonel Lang, your image is a doctored photo of a riot in Athens, Greece in 2009. The Antifa image was added to the back of the rioter's jacket. There's plenty of legitimate photos of black clad, masked Antifa activists illegally whooping on nazis and such.

[turcopolier]

TTG

You seem quite well disposed toward Antifa.

[The Twisted Genius]

No, I think Antifa is a fatal accident waiting to happen. Although I find the white supremacists like those of the "Unite the Right" variety especially vile and deserving of being confronted forcefully, Antifa is not much better. The police should be the ones forcefully confronting both.

That image is part of a Getty series of photos taken of that 2009 protest in Athens.

https://www.gettyimages.com.au/photos/violent-clashes-in-athens-mark-the-first-anniversary-of-police-killing?sort=mostpopular&mediatype=photography&phrase=violent%20clashes%20in%20athens%20mark%20the%20first%20anniversary%20of%20police%20killing

[turcopolier]

TTG

How is Antifa in any way better?

[The Twisted Genius]

Antifa doesn't stand for white supremacy. I can't fault them for that. It doesn't stand for anything, not even the Marxist Communist symbology they often use. Their methods of confrontation are no different from those they stand against so they deserve the same treatment from the police, FBI and DOJ.

[optimax]

In Portland we have an alt-right group called Proud Boys. They battle with Antifa on a regular basis. They're both violent scum. These days Proud Boys can only muster a couple dozen people at their demonstrations with a hundred or more Antif#cks ready to rumble, with a large contingent of sucker-punching fat women.This article in the Marxist rag Truthout white washes Antifa--The right wing blogger Andy Ngo--he takes picture and is not violent-- was beaten by Antifa people and not peacefully confronted as the writer implies. Unfortunately, the article expresses Portland government's political attitude.

https://truthout.org/articles/massive-anti-fascist-coalition-rebuffs-far-right-proud-boys-in-portland/

[Jim Ticehurst]

If you want Images...go look up The WTO Riots in Seattle..1999...The Biggest Organized Riot (Protest) in America of its kind..and Everyone was there..40,ooo of them..Most of the Masked Violent Rioters were Anarchist from The West Coast...Many from Oregon..but also San Francisco..The WTO Rioters and Now renamed ANTIFA.They are Capable Of The same kind of Violence and Destruction as the Weather Underground and Other Subversive Groups..

[Jim Ticehurst]

Wiki...WTO Riots Seatttle..Its all there..

[turcopolier]

TTG

Communists and anarchists are usually not for "white supremacy. That does not make them ."good people. So, for you this is still about immigrants. 1.2 million legal immigrants/year are evidently not enough for you.

[Vegetius]

Sir, you need some SA. Please review the last four years of Antifa interactions with law-abiding citizens.

Except for deep red states where anti-mask laws are enforced, Antifa operates with the implicit protection of the police and the tacit acceptance of their tactics by local authorities.

Because of this, every time Antifa has been met in the street it has gone badly for law-abiding Americans

Zman, who I have recommended to you before, has a great post on this:

http://thezman.com/wordpress/?p=17987

[Vegetius]

In effect, Antifa are shock troops (read:useful idiots) for anti-American open-borders globalists and international finance capital.

[doug]

Antifa worries me more than the alt-right white nationalists. They bask in the glory of being anti fascist. This can be quite appealing to young men with minds full of mush and a hormonal need to express themselves. As much as Trump's gross behavior appalls me, I fear more a swing in the other direction post Trump. Marxism is coming back into style ever since the Soviet Union disintegrated from it's own internal contradictions, to use the vernacular. For the last 20 years or so of its existence it provided evidence of just how stagnant a communist economy devolves into.

[Jhaeir]

I'm sorry. But when Antifa count in their ranks people who post on forums about how women and girls in the thousands "deserved" to be viciously brutalized by gangs of soldiers when the Soviets stormed Berlin. Then, yes. They are as vile as white supremacists.

[Divadab]

My take on this is that it’s probable that letter agency boys and girls are a substantial number of the ´antifà headcount , as they are in the “proud boys” also.

It’s a show. But so are professional sports which are nonetheless mostly real contests. So taking it to the streets, and scrapping it out, may be a good idea. A punch in the nose is quite educational! I should add, however, that my hooligan days are over and I cede the field to those younger and fitter and more willing to take a hit for the cause.

[Fred]

Divadab,

Just how many "letter agency" people are there in Portland and Seattle?

[walrus]

beware of those who believe that like Antifa, they are in possession of the sole, perfect, revealed truth and that therefore any action including murder is permissible in the name of building a perfect society.

Pol Pot and his colleagues murdered 2 million Cambodians in pursuit of such an ideal. Antifa will try and do the same if not stopped now.

Dostoyevsky encapsulated this mind set in “The Brothers Karamazov”:

“Tell me straight out, I call on you—answer me: imagine that you yourself are building the edifice of human destiny with the object of making people happy in the finale, of giving them peace and rest at last, but for that you must inevitably and unavoidably torture just one tiny creature, [one child], and raise your edifice on the foundation of her unrequited tears—would you agree to be the architect on such conditions?. . . And can you admit the idea that the people for whom you are building would agree to accept their happiness on the unjustified blood of a tortured child, and having accepted it, to remain forever happy?”

[Degringolade]

Colonel and TTG:

A report from Portlandia (since I live here, I feel that perhaps I can add some local color).

I feel that the Portland City Council does use Antifa as a counterweight to the folks coming over from Clark County. Having lived in the 'Couv (Vancouver Washington, just across the Might Columbia) and now in Portland during my dotage, I can tell you that what is happening here is a classic Red/Blue sissy boy slap fest.

Antifa is a refuge for the angry liberal who wants to use violence but abhors the use of such against themselves. Sean and Carl (Folks I know who enjoy such things) seem to feel that parading around with baseball bats and rebar is a great way to score political points and impress women.

One has to remember that Portland is first and foremost a city of arrivistes. The Proud boys and their ilk (Know several of them personally, they played football with my youngest, overall they are good kids) come over from that hive of scum and villainy known as Clark County specifically to fuck with the Antifa types and mock the poseurs that line the microbreweries and Tapa bars that one finds in Portland.

Antifa is the fighting wing of the genteel poseurs here in Portlandia. Proud Boys and their ilk are merely rough boys who have figured out there is another gang out there who like to fight and come on over to offer their services as an opponent.

As for the "Journalist" that got a couple of cuts and bruises in the most recent dust-up, well, who the fuck cares? Other than other "journalists" who feel that their "profession" should be free of all risk and that their words aren't the incitement to riot that both sides welcome.

Nope, I kind of look at these activities as spectator sports. I liken their activities to the parking lot fights after football games that I used to enjoy watching and commenting on (football players considered watching the parking lot fights a reward for playing, kind of a post-game entertainment).

Nope, I kinda see the whole thing as kinda harmless. Yeah, somebody is going to get the shit kicked out of them is a mutually agreed upon fight, but hell, I am missing a couple of teeth myself from a set to in Fayetteville (my CO was not amused), so who am I to judge.

[Seamus Padraig]

And then there was Charlottesville:

http://www.unz.com/article/the-system-revealed-antifa-virginia-politicians-and-police-work-together-to-shut-down-unitetheright/

I have come to suspect that Antifa has long been infiltrated by FBI assets, and that the Feds are quietly steering them to keep us under control. They are probably no more 'spontaneous' or 'independent' than were Mao's Red Guards in China, or the Soviet Union's League of Atheist Citizens in the 1920s.

[John Minehan]

"At least they can be arrested and prosecuted as individuals when committing violent crimes."

And, as with any **group** that commits crimes, the criminal RICO statute is available to US Attorneys . . . .

[Ligurio]

Antifa --my sources and 20th century American history tell me--is thoroughly infiltrated by (let us call them) federal "agents" (official and unofficial). The point of Antifa violence is to delegitimize popular political movements to the left of the corporate war-mongering Democrat Party. This is why Antifa, though ostensibly an anti-*capitalist* group, has become notorious for their assaults upon innocent Trump supporters whom they accuse of "racism" or "white supremacy." This is just the old strategic American use of race-baiting to counter economic populist movements that goes back to the beginnings of the country itself. I am surprised that pl, who is so able a military analyst and so astute a student of American history, should not see this for what it is.

[Peter C]

Re.: anti-capitalism.

Capitalism and democracy are fundamentally at odds with one another, and for democracy to function well, it is required that there be 1) a well-informed populace 2) strict limits on campaign donations and spending, and 3) no freebies to elected officials (trip to Israel, anybody?). Without proper oversight (aka relying on the wisdom of the free market), we end up with things like superpacs, corporations being "people", a pervasive lobbyist culture, and concentration of press ownership into a small number of hands.

Capitalism run rampant severly hinders genuine democracy, and it's why we now have a "free press" that systematically misinforms its readers and viewers, an absurdly expensive (and predatory) military industrial complex, crumbling public infrastructure, monetization of essential services, and a choice between Trump (ick) or Clinton (yuck) as candidates in the previous US presidential election.

[Quartered Safe Out Here]

All this sounds too familiar. I recently re-read Remarque's Three Comrades and the current news echoes. Admittedly it's a stretch from Antifa in Charlottesville to Freikorps remnants in Weimar and our republic is resilient and we've lived through worse. But it's still worrisome.

[Eric Newhill]

Yes. They are aided and abetted by members of the Democrat party.