Redoubts 9 and 10 - Where the US was born.

 

(In honor of the state visit of president Emanuel Macron this post is re-published 23 April 2018.)

This is a re-enactment drill team from the "Regiment Saintonge."   This was one of the seven French infantry regiments who fought at Yorktown and without whose service and courage Cornwallis would never have surrendered.  Anthony Wayne's Continentals and these men captured these two strong redoubts in night bayonet attacks.  There are a whole lot of these fellows buried out in the woods at Yorktown in their military cemetery.  These were the French king's soldiers and their units passed into history at their own revolution.  Among the men were people from all over France, Rhinelanders from Zweibrucken (Deux Ponts), Irish of course, Poles and a scattering of European professionals of one kind or another.  Are their graves decorated on the 4th of July?  I hope so.  Here is a list of their dead buried in Virginia's soil.  They are listed by regiment.  pl

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMg-PHszyDM

 

AGENOIS

Jean Aimont	Andre Allard
Nicolas Angevaise	Jan Baggage
Benoist Bouillot	Nicolas Bourdin
Jacques Chatillon	Antoine Cocq
Yves David	Noel Fugenot
Francois Guiboiseau	Joseph Hautville
Francois Marival	Louis Martin
Louis Menager	Nicolas Maret
Francois Hursin	Pierre Lignot
Laurent Nolly	Jacques Papelard
Louis Thevenin	Oger Verdavoir

Angoumois

Jacques Tournis

Auxonne

Vincent Bellanger	Louis Carbonel
Jacques Christol	Claude Ferrey
Nicolas Fole	Pierre Gorrelier
Francois Gerthier	Antoine Grossetete
Jean Joulin	Francois Jund
Pierre de La Loge	Jacques Le Riche
Vincent Martin	Claude Paris
Jacques Pelitier	Philibert Salmon

Beaujolais

Pierre Beher	Jean Gloaret
Jean Godard	Jerome Hagueneau
Jean Jaubert	Joseph Jaubert
Andoche Mercier	Jean Molin
Jacques Peyllard	Mathieu Soulignac
Jacques Tissier	Jean Varrennes

Foix

Pierre Canys	Francois Cavalier
Bernard Gaguebey	Joseph Genies
Benoist Gubiaud	Jean Lyonnois
Jean Maison	Alexis Martin
Liberal Moutel	Domininique Savequet

Brie

Jacques Berger

Jacques de Paris

Dillon

Gaspard Everlet

Bourbonnais

Joseph Barbaton	Etienne Bedel
Jean Besard	Antoine Canton
Fleury Chabrier	Etienne Courtois
Antoine Desmont	Gabriel Devilliers
Jean Galotet	Joseph Guillaume
Jean Honore	Louis Huguet
Jean Jerifafin	Francois Jolivet
Michel Kell	Antoine La Fosse
Bernard Manadet	Antoine Mery
Jean Noel	Jean Paniolet
Joseph Perrier	Joseph Prou
Pierre Proux	Francois Rossignol
Jean Roussel	Jean Saffroy
Jean Selignet	Jean Seliquet
Andre Terville	Louis Testelin
Nicolas Tumelin	Joseph Verrier
Joseph Villaret

Soissonnais

Pierre Belledent	Nicolas Blondelle
Michel Boissard	Jean Brunet
Jean Caillet	Jean Coleran
Pierre Conde	Jacques Dauvergne
Francois Dique-Dounier	Nicolas Dubourg
Jean Galtier	Philippe Gausse
Michel Gavaudant	Jean Geoffroy
Claude Granbon	Francois Guillon
Jean Hennone	Nicolas Jacoby
Jean Jossard	Jean La Croix
Etienne La Roche	Gilbert La Taupe
Jacques Langlois	Pierre Le Comte
Pierre Le Hup	Pierre Lyonnais
Jean de Marin	Jean Michelet
Jean Monet	Louis Perche
Nicolas Pernot	Jean Pigibet
Jean Plagnolet	Charles Poulain
Charles Provol	Etienne Puissant
Jean Roche	Pierre de Roche
Pierre Roitoux	Antoine Sepedre
Jean Sourson	Nicolas Tilquaz
Pierre Vial

Gatinais

Henri Audiger	Etienne Auger
Jean Bardou	Jacques Bedel
Nicolas Bega	Augustin de Berthelot
Antoine Beze	Louis Brian
Jean Brostman	Jean Bulle
Jean Catel	Claude Chamois
Gilbert Charet	Thomas Chavaillard
Joseph Chevalier	Paul Chevalier
Andre Colue	Francois Curdinet
Louis Curdon	Bertrand Daray
Pierre Daussent	Louis Decoune
Nicolas Demaret	Joseph Deschamps
Francois Deshayes	Andre Deze
Jean Domino	Charles Dufour
Michel Dufut	Denis Dumont
Dominique Feret	Antoine Fissy
Jean Gaudard	Pierre Gilles
Joseph Giraud	Antoine Gouya
Nicolas Guelin	Pierre Guenard
Antoine Guillamebourg	Joseph Guilleraux
Michel Herve	Remy Houba
Pierre Jean	Claude Julien
Jean La Coste	Gillaume La Croix
Philippe Laine	Jean de Lannoy
Jean Laurenceau	Jacques Laurent
Jacques Livernois	Pierre Le Ferme
Jacques Le May	Pierre Le Page
Jean Lejore	Philibert Mauchalin
Francois Meinier	Gaspard Milliot
Jean Nicole	Mathieu Ospell
Claude Oudot	Pierre Ozanne
Paul Palis	B. Paly
Jean Paulard	Charles Pierson
Jean Pilau	Francois Poupon
Pierre Quenard	Charles Remont
Pierre Riotte	Charles Rouay
Jean Salles	Antoine Sallemon
Antoine Serve	Jean de Sireuil
Andre Solne	Barthelemy Sorbetz
Claude Stoudert	Jean Tincelin
Joseph Tinier	Jean Tousset
Andre Vachere	Emmanuel Vextain
Francois Vigoureux	Jean Vitre
Andre Vitrier	Armand Wendreweck

Royal Deux Ponts

Andre Cheret	Jean Diltzer
Paul Egre	---- Hielden
Francois Hiltzenberger	Andre Hoffman
Georges Merkot	Nicolas Muller
Georges Neble	Pierre New
Erasmus Orkensude	Christian Pabst
Ferdinand Robichon	Gottfried Rouffe
Francois Scholder	Sebastian Scholt
Jacob Stautzer	Jean Stein
Balthazar Stoher	Adam Stubert
Geroges Vbel

 

Comments

[Ulenspiegel]

Paulus has authority because there was a Saulus before. :-)

The teacher who gave me most to think about was a pastor who taught religious education in my highschool. He joint the German Wehrmacht as 17 years old teenager and convinced Nazi. Then he survived four years Ostfront as enlisted man in a combat engineer company, outfits with a horribly high loss rate. In 1945 he was completely cured.

With his RL background he had authority and was usually able to challenge us students with morale dilemmas and with his deep historic knowledge he was able to fill some of the boring bible stuff with life.

[Ryan]

Yes, their graves should be decorated, but with which flag? The Fleur de lis of the French monarchy or the Tricolor?

I would hope that Napoleon might have combine the lineage of these fine old regiments with the ones that he lead. The US Army has done this in the past with former regiments of the Confederate Army. An example would be the 121st Infantry of the 8th Infantry Division. On the colors are a number of battle streamers with names like Chancellorville, Frederickburg, etc. These streamers were won by the original unit, The Macon Volunteers of Georgia. At some point someone came up with this bright idea. I'm glad they did, being from Georgia and having served in one of the battalions back during the first Gulf War. Whether this practice is still done today I don't know, political correctness being what it is. It probably still is as most people (including the US Army) don't know squat about American History, particulalry Military history.

[turcopolier]

Ryan

Regular Army units of the US Army do not descend from former Confederate units but there are many units of the Army National Guard that were Confederate. Some of them existed long before the WBS as militia units of the states. Some were colonial. This is true of the 116th Infantry of the Virginia National Guard. This is an 18th Century militia unit that became the Stonewall Brigade in the WBS. In WW2 the 116th was part of the assault force on Omaha Beach. There are similar units in the New England National Guard, for example, the 182nd Infantry of the Mass Guard, founded around 1630 as the West Regiment of militia. This is the oldest unit of the US Army. Today National Guard units are called to active duty to serve for a while with regular units like the 8th Division. pl

[Ryan Murphy]

I understand, colonel. What I meant was that after being federalized for WWII as in the case of the 8th ID some of these units weren't stood down at the end of the war and went on to remain active duty units for a number of years.

In any case my main point was this is the practice was done with the US Army. In too many cases following a revolution or some other event the good gets thrown away with the bad. The Preobrazhensky Regiment is an example of this following the Bolshevik Revolution.

Regarding the rest of your reply I wasn't aware that the 116th Inf descended from the Stonewall Bde nor was I aware of the history of the 182nd Inf being the oldest unit of the US Army. Thanks for adding to my knowledge.

By the way, do you have an opinion on which flag should be flown over those brave men at Yorktown?

[turcopolier]

Ryan Murphy

The flag of the Kingdom of France seems appropriate. pl

[Ryan Murphy]

I concur, sir.

Troops should be buried under the colors they fought for.

The only people who would object to this in France are the same sort of nuts we have here who get upset when the UDC and the SCV place battle flags on the graves of Confederate dead. Unfortunately, this has become more common place as the nation further descends into cultural Marxism.

It turns out I answered my own question above on whether the French carried on the lineage of these old units to today. They do according to this:

http://xenophongroup.com/mcjoynt/regts.htm

There's a slew of them, colonel, who we can remember as well who fought in other places to add to those of Yorktown.

People who are curious to see what the uniforms looked like for these units can find them here:

http://pfef.free.fr/Page_Principale.htm

[Ryan]

I consider myself lucky. My parents took me to Yorktown many years ago. Redoubts Nine and Ten were wonderfully preserved. All hail the Americans and French who took them.

[ex-PFC Chuck]

re "Can debts of soldiers and sailors lives ever be repaid in full?"
The only meaningful way to try is to do what we can to pay it forward. When the final session of the Constitutional Convention adjourned in 1787, a Mrs. Powel of Philadelphia approached Benjamin Franklin and said, “Well, Doctor, what have we got—a Republic or a Monarchy?” He replied, “A Republic, if you can keep it." We are in the midst of one of those recurring periods during which it is not at all certain we are going to keep it, and the threat is all the more insidious because the threat today is not external but internal in the form of a wealth and power grab by the elites, led by those in control of the financial and energy industries. As John Michael Greer points out in a recent blog post that channels Arnold Toynbee:As long as the political class of a civilization can inspire admiration and affection from those below it, the civilization thrives, because the shared sense of values and purpose generated by mimesis keeps the pressures of competing class interests from tearing it apart. . . Civilizations fail, in turn, because their political classes lose the ability to inspire mimesis, and this happens in turn because members of the elite become so fixated on maintaining their own power and privilege that they stop doing an adequate job of addressing the problems facing their society. As those problems spin further and further out of control, the political class loses the ability to inspire and settles instead for the ability to dominate. Outside the political class and its hangers-on, in turn, more and more of the population becomes what Toynbee calls an internal proletariat, an increasingly sullen underclass that still provides the political class with its cannon fodder and labor force but no longer sees anything to admire or emulate in those who order it around."
http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com/2014/06/the-broken-thread-of-culture.html

[steve]

Here's a nice video of a reenactment of the Regiment Saintonge fife and drum corp doing Yankee Doodle, and other American tunes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMg-PHszyDM

[alba etie]

Col Lang
I am grateful to see this post from a year ago . I am pretty sure I was trying to make the point that I admired Pope Francis because he had experienced being a bouncer in a bar , I thought that might inform his Papacy to have that 'street level view' of the world. I do not believe in predestination . And still maintain that my good friend Jim - the professed Bhuddist is in Heaven even though he never came to Jesus .
Though one of my favorite poets is still Carl Sandburg , and his best poem IMO is "To a Contemporary Bunkshooter ". But I probably should be careful about posting anymore theological musings here at SST , as its a very difficult subject for many of us .

[alba etie]

Steve
They also did a very spirited cover of 'Oh Susanna !"

[oofda]

Thanks again Colonel for reminding us of the heavy losses the French regiments suffered at Yorktown. There a lot of names on that list, and we should remember them.

Somewhat on topic, in central South Dakota, on a bluff overlooking the Missouri River outside Fort Pierre, there is a monument to the La Verendrye brothers of New France who claimed the land for Louis VX in 1741. They left an inscribed lead plate to record their claim, it was found in 1913. At the place where the lead plate was found, three flags now fly- the U.S. flag, the South Dakota state flag and the flag of France- not the Tricolor, but the Fleur-de-Lis flag of that time.

[Brad Ruble]

My father was in the 755th tank Battalion. We didn't talk a lot about it, but from what I remember they trained with French/North African troops in North Africa. I think they went into Italy in October of 1943. He said they lost half their outfit the first month. I'm not sure that is accurate but he was there and I will take his word. They worked with the French. I remember him calling them Gomas. I asked him what kind of troops they were and he said " Oh hell, they're as good as anybody else. It all depends on their officers". He liked Patton. He said Patton didn't blame the troops.

[turcopolier]

Brad Ruble

http://755thtank.net/index.html I had never heard of this outfit. Juin must have been short of armor and the 755th was attached to him for that reason. The term in the French Army for the Moroccan soldiers was "goumiers" this is a French version of the Arabic word "qawmi" meaning a tribal, ethnic fighter. I had a colleague in the faculty at West Point who had been an officer in Juin's force in Italy and was badle wounded while a liaison with Truscott at Anzio. He taught French and was much feared by the cadets whom he treated as the children that they were. pl

[Patrick Bahzad]

In addition to PL's comment about Italy campaign, and questions asked about which troops were involved, there were moroccan "goumiers" regiments made up of Tabor mountain warriors from the atlas mountain range. They played a decisive role in the final assault that managed to get the Poles the break through.
As for the Spahis, their legend lives on in the "1er regiment de spahis" which is an armoured cavalry regiment nowadays. Pretty decent outfit BTW.

[Patrick Bahzad]

Well the french troops in booth the 7 year war and the American war of independence were much better professional soldiers than their British army counterparts. The fact France lost the war in 1763 had nothing to do with combat ability of these ground troops. I would have had any of those units mentioned above over any British or hessian regiment !

[Patrick Bahzad]

Sure but nor Hakeim was a side show ... Just something to boost the severely crumbling french morale after the defeat of 1940. As for that other legend, again I'd compare the french army's track record over that of the Brits any day of the week !

[Patrick Bahzad]

There was no conscription at the time in the French army. These were all enlisted or professional men. Conscription not came with the French revolution.

[Patrick Bahzad]

True but the freedom fries story got more to,do with french experience in arab and Muslim countries and total US inexperience and deliberate blindness at the top !

[Patrick Bahzad]

It's mostly a British thing though because they used to get scared shitless when facing french army regiments .. And for anybody wanting to reply, remember, I said army, not navy !

[Patrick Bahzad]

Civil war worse in south than WWI in eastern France ? No it wasn't ! And judging by the body count on a national basis, WWI was worse as well

[Patrick Bahzad]

But mark the French did give up just like that when the german invasion happened ... Some troops fought bravely and France lost 100 000 men during those few months in 1940. But the fact is the country was internally divided and that was the biggest reason for the "surrender" ... Fighting spirit would have needed a man of national stature to carry on the fight. De Gaulle at that point was a largely unknown quantity though. Shame ...
I seriously doubt your figures regarding german and Italian casualties though. The Germans lost 15 000 men no more.

[Patrick Bahzad]

There may have been many Europeans but there was only one European country that fought at the side of the Soon to be US !

[Patrick Bahzad]

Actually these two ladies hated each other and would have been at each other's throat in other circumstances ... I don't remember them holding hands either but could be mistaken. I know both the official and unofficial family of the deceased were present though that is true.

[Ulenspiegel]

What was the problem with the French in 1756-63? How do you explain their performance at Minden?