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03 March 2018


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The Beaver

@ Decameron

wrt boychik , in Jpost:


Check Danon's arguments on that subject and yet he is the one who whispers in the ears of Nikki on topics related to Iran and Palestine.


Some Evangelicals want the war because they think it will instigate the Israeli's to take the temple mount, raze the mosque and rebuild King David's temple. Boom, Armageddon and Game over. Ha, living in the cloud forever. Computer cloud, mushroom cloud, its all the same to those whackjobs. It looks like Bibi has Jerusalem fever.


The Israeli Fifth Column lost this one:

Federal court blocks Kansas anti-boycott law - First Amendment ...
Feb 6, 2018 - First Amendment | Judge rules bill shielding Israeli businesses from discrimination violates constitutional free speech protections.

Beside the I-First Column and the Evangelical fanatics you would have to get rid of 90% of our politicians to get rid of Israel's grip on the US.


How insane is this.

'Kasich Proposes New Government Agency To Promote Judeo -Christianity around the world…'
Nov 17, 2015 – As part of a broad national security plan to defeat ISIS, Republican Presidential candidate John Kasich proposed creating a new government agency to push Judeo-Christian values around the world. The new agency, which he hasn’t yet named, would promote a Jewish- and Christian-based belief system


I recall during the issue with the Barbary Pirates two centuries ago, the US Congress passed a Resolution explicitly stating that the US was in no sense a "Christian nation" and that we had no issue with Islam per se.

Imagine trying to get that Resolution passed in today's Congress...


Purdue U. history professor Randy Roberts stated that "the term Judeo-Christian' originated in the WWII era."

Rabbi Danya Ruttenberg thinks the pair should divorce:


"his might be a good time to note that “Judeo-Christian” is not a thing and we Jews would like you to stop conflating our tradition with your American Christianity."

In Christianity's earliest days, the New Testament was frequently paired with the Aeneid, and Christianity with Roman culture. https://vridar.org/2015/08/01/acts-and-virgils-aeneid-comparison-and-influence/

Karel Whitman


I wonder what article by Gideon Levy you might possibly refer to?

Gideon Levy dismissed the possible ouster of the "longest-serving PM" hopeful, Netanyahu, because, after all, a left Zionist and a right-wing Zionist, is ... a Zionist.

Must be one of his opinion pieces covering the subject:


Levy's remarks were at the conference I referenced on March 2. The conference website that is linked on Colonel lang's blog should be transcribing the speeches. They might also appear in YouTube. Thanks for sending the link to the Haaretz article.

Sent from my iPhone

Karel Whitman

Don't expect me to look into C-Span's AIPAC video. I am not that masochist. ;) But thanks, Decameron.

If someone recalls the reference though, and by whom it was, I would be interested. Yes, I somewhat expect him to be misused in context, admittedly.

That said whoever may have referred to another C-Span video linked in that context:
U.S.-Israel Relations and Middle East Policy, Gideon Levy

We do have at least one member I recall doesn't want to subscribe for 5 free monthly articles on Haaretz. Thus here two via open source:

Opinion Piece. Gideon Levy:

In the first paragraph he links to an article by Aluf Been, which is worth reading too:

Could it be that perception of understandable vs to be punished corruption also follows party lines? That's admittedly from a slightly ironical take of the present US political scene. On the other hand a man working in the field at one point told me the most frequent statement by the suspects when enforcement confronted them. In that context he also referred to a researcher and or her study on matters over here in Europe that found quite a high percentage of cases closed to her interested scrutiny.

That said, I wonder what percentage of the respectful audience and beyond found Netayahu's speech in Munich unbearable.

Karel Whitman

I cannot emphasize enough,I really hate nothing more then people that misspell names.

Sorry: Aluf Benn.


Judaism and Christianity divorced centuries ago due to irreconcilable differences.

Judeo-Christian is really just a political construct. A dog whistle from politicians to evangel voters and Jewish money men...got to keep up the pretense of 'shared values' for Israel's benefit.


Karel Whitman
And why should we care about your petty peeves about spelling? pl

Karel Whitman

You shouldn't. ;)

Babak Makkinejad

I agree. Both in practice and in structure, Islam & Judaism have much more in common than Judaism & Christianity. This is a factual observation and not an opiniin. Islam is "Judaism for All".



Without Judaism the central claims of Christianity are incoherent nonsense. God is a Jew, Jesus is a Jew, his mother is a Jew, and almost every text in the bible was written by a Jew about Jews.

You have to choose between your love of Christ and your hatred of his people. Do you really want to stand before him at judgement day and have to explain all those things you said about his mother?



Appears the AIPAC policy conference was this weekend


Very important legal precedent. This is exactly why the Israeli government and the Israel Lobby are so freaked out about the very idea of BDS. First, they know how important it was in bringing down the apartheid system in South Africa. Second, they know they are on thin ice in the United States on this question because of the First Amendment. This precedent should be widely circulated in the other foolish states, like "liberal" New York state that adopted that lawless law. Thanks, Decameron.


AIPAC is only just beginning this weekend (March 4) Will go on for a couple of days. Recommend avoiding C-Span except for the purposes of opposition research.


I'm far more interested in Zoroaster, Razumov. Not sure if Zoroaster/Cyrus were pre-Abraham, but they are certainly not in the Abrahamic mode -- "Believe as I demand or I have the right to punish you" -- according to the tale of Abraham and the Idol shop, that's the core holding of Abraham.

As well, I completely reject the business about Original Sin and All Men are Sinners and can be saved only by sacrificing an "unblemished ram caught in the thicket" -- or Jesus. I hold to the Jesus of Jefferson and Jefferson's Syllabus and bible.

In Zoroaster-land, "Paradise" is a Persian garden.
Zoroaster counsels: Good Thoughts, Good Words, Good Deeds.

I used to have an exquisite 3-volume set of Thomas Aquinas's Summa Theologica. I needed money to pay dorm fees so I sold the set. No longer own a ready-reference to the Proofs of God, but I know how to behave a la Zoroaster: Good thoughts, Good words, Good deeds.

The Twisted Genius


Judaism denies the Holy Trinity and Jesus as the son of God. Those are central tenets of Christianity. Granted Christianity arose from among the Jewish people, but the religions are quite different from each other.

Karel Whitman

Decameron: Sorry, the unforgettable horror while watching the AIPAC conference a felt decade ago obstructed my reading of your article.

It was a huge anti-Iran-Propaganda show. Pretty professionally done, huge screens and all. But yes the AIPAC conference, upcoming, I realize now, was somehow on the back of my mind. Somehow coupled with that earlier horror.

Will you forgive my apparent mental block preventing me from reading your article more carefully? Or my error/big blunder to realize it after your feedback above?


In the past there have been marches to protest the AIPAC conference.

Seems this year Putin 'stole a march,' releasing a declaration of Russian military capabilities that, according to one Russian military analyst, trumps any and every American DoD capability and plan.

Is it possible the Russians really have influenced American politics to the extent that this will be the last AIPAC conference Americans will have to endure?


I find it hard to believe the anti BDS laws will stand up in court, even allowing for the state of present day judges.

English Outsider

Razumov - this Judeo-Christian thing. It doesn't really matter in this context. The expropriation of private property without compensation and without legal recourse is wrong. We call it theft and it's frowned upon. That's a rule everyone in the West, Jewish, Christian, Rastafarian, lives by.

The Palestinians, Christian, Muslim or plain secular, are entitled to live by it too.


catherine#4, Rsh#5, Croesus#6,

like it how you passed the ball on to each other. Never mind Razunov's "exquisite" response. Slight irony alert.


Special thanks to Croesus. Not enough time for Randy Roberts, although his publications look interesting. Strictly it's understandable that Judeo-Christian would surface in the US at the time of WWII and beyond.

Concerning Steve Sailer: from my perspective he is misguided in his judgement. I responded over there directly to him. Maybe it will show up? Comparable Pavlovian response to Ruttenberg's? Interesting discussion he triggered anyway.

Misguided? I think he may miss an important point in the Coen Brother's sequence. Beyond reference to the 50s they have had a more recent on in mind. For me the sequence triggered a memory from 2003. A quite heated pre-release debate about Gibson's The Passion of Christ. I found myself in at the time. Heavily puzzled, then. Admittedly. But interestingly references to debate/s at the time surface in the discussion. Apart from some "standards". I noticed after I posted my comment. Interesting short review of Cohen's film by Bishop Robert Barron.


Denis MacDonald, I have to try to keep in mind. Reminds me of my old theological favorite, Anders Nygren.

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