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05 February 2018

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RC

The Conservative Treehouse had a revelation today about another FBI undercover agent.

Turns out the Carter Page, who the FBI certified as a Russian Spy to the FISA court in October 2016, was an undercover FBI agent used to trap and act as state witness in a trial against a real spy between 2013 and May 2016.

You better believe the FISA court was not told that Carter Page was a trusted FBI undercover operative -- until he became a VEHICLE to spy on the whole Trump Campaign, in October 2016 and three subsequent times at 90-day intervals.

JamesT

TTG

I really appreciate all of your writing on these topics. I must admit that I am emotionally tilted to believe that the memo is a "smoking gun", but reading you helps to keep me from slipping to far into confirmation bias.

plantman

I'm really stuck.
Here's the deal: Comey and Co used the dossier to gat the FISA judge to approve a warrant for spying on Page.

Check.

But why Page?
Page was just a small fish who had already left the campaign.
Besides, even if they got dirt on Page, it probably wouldn't be sufficient to nail Trump (which is what they really wanted)
My guess is that Page just provides the first clue in a much bigger criminal investigation that will uncover massive surveillance on people closer to Trump.
That, at least, would make sense.
If they were just spying on page, it doesn't make any sense.

Were Samantha power and susan rice using their connections with the NSA (and "unmasking") to get secret electronic info on other Trump campaign members without even getting a FISA warrant?

How big is this thing and how widespread?

Clapper MUST have a hand in this, and maybe Brennan too.

your thoughts?


wisedupearly Ceo

Steele memo # 2016/94 titled "RUSSIA: SECRET KREMLIN MEETINGS ATTENDED BY TRUMP ADVISOR, CARTER PAGE IN MOSCOW (JULY 2016)
Summary has 3 points.
PAGE has secret meetings in Moscow
SECHIN raises lifting of Western Sanctions
DIVEYKIN discusses release of kompromat of Hillary Clinton.

Not sure why this memo is deemed salacious. How much supporting evidence would the FBI need for the FSIA court to issue the warrant on just this memo?

wisedupearly Ceo

Gowdy has said in a tweet about the warrant that he was "deeply disturbed" that is it.
Mercouris should talk to Nunes. Nunes has said that Gowdy "summarized" source material and that he, Nunes, had the memo written by his aides.
NYT claims that the key aide is Kashyap Patel, been an aid for less than 1 year. No prior intel experience.

Contempt of court applies only to to participants in proceedings before a sitting judge? Not sure of your mention here. So await your reply.


jpb


The FBI obtained a warrant omitting the fact the Steele Dossier had a paid political origin. This omission was pertinent in assessing the creditably of the source of information used to establish 'probable cause' to issue the search warrant(FISA warrant). Is this omission 'contempt of court'?

Please read the GOP memo and Mercouris's analysis of the memo for other omissions and misrepresentations before the FISA court. I do not know if Mercouris's assertion that Trey Gowdy is the primary author is correct, but he make's the case the GOP memo is a legal document and not a political document. Trey Gowdy is a trial lawyer who likely authored the legal document attacking the FISA warrant.

Hopefully we will soon see the FISA warrant application!

Eric Newhill

W.U.E. #28

Maybe b/c it was known that the meeting never happened b/c they were watching him (and via others methods and sources)? Maybe something as simple as Sechin was somewhere else at the time. Also, the part about Sechin offering Page something like $19 billion to help close the deal was kind of over the top wasn't it? Would you believe that? And there's the problem that Page wasn't really a Trump advisor. He never met Trump and never communicated with him by other means. He was a very fringe volunteer on the campaign in a group that met a couple of times hoping to get an in and build a resume.

How would a nobody like Page help get sanctions lifted?

Steele's work is pretty poor, IMO. You'd think he would have assembled better, more believable, stories. The golden showers thing is another example.

The story is silly on its face.

The Twisted Genius

wisedupearly Ceo,

The only salacious stuff in the Steele dossier (actually a series of raw reports, as you know), is the pee pee tape report. I happened to be watching Twitter the night the report came out and that was the only thing talked about for 24 hours. Everything else was lost in the snickering. Given the Stormy Daniels story and the ensuing payoff and cover up, even the pee pee tape doesn't sound as crazy as it first did.

A number of the individual reports by Steele were corroborated in full or part over time like the report you pointed out. If you accept the DNI ICA on Russian interference in the election a lot Steele's stuff has panned out. Of course if you deny the concept of Russian interference, those reports of Steele are just part of the vast left wing conspiracy.

An interesting item that was recently revealed concerned Natalia Veselnitskaya, the "adoption lawyer" who met Trump jr, Manafort and others at Trump Tower in June 2016. She was identified in Swiss court as an SVR officer who recruited a high level Swiss law enforcement officer. I'd love to hear the tapes of that Trump Tower meeting in light of this.

jpb


Apologies to PT for drifting off topic.....

"The FISA Court Memorandum and Order was released prior to the House Intelligence Committee report and has been completely ignored by the utterly corrupt press prostitutes. The FISA Court Memorandum and Order, relying on the confessions of the FBI and DOJ, verifies the House Intelligence Committee report that the FBI and DOJ illegally obtained spy warrants for partisan politial purposes."

https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2018/02/05/will-conspiracy-trump-american-democracy-go-unpunished/

blue peacock

TTG

I understand what you're saying and would agree that would normally be how its done. Wearing a wire. But...I am speculating that Carter Page was used to get a FISA warrant specifically to gain retroactive authorization of earlier surveillance on some members of the Trump team. My speculation is that surveillance on Team Trump began earlier without any warrants leading to FISA violations that Admiral Rogers discovered in April 2016. Carter Page was the perfect accomplice to cover their surveillance tracks by getting the FISA Title I warrant in October 2016 on him and consequently every one he was in contact with.

My contention that "setting a precedent" is a red herring is because the IC routinely disclose sources and methods when it serves their interest. For example I believe recalling Col. Lang writing that the IC disclosed we had decrypted secure communications of the Russian ambassador, apparently to nail Gen. Flynn. So, hiding behind precedence is precisely to prevent disclosure of malfeasance. It is like Clapper denying under oath that there is no mass surveillance. IMO, disclosing the FISA application may implicate Comey, Yates, Rosenstein, et al. and that's the only reason why they are stalling. Just like the hysteria from Comey and Brennan prior to the release of the Nunes memo. And why they redact so much from the Grassley memo. There are no sources and methods in any of these memos.

IMO, they better insure IG Horowitz's report be like the Owens investigation in the UK that David Habakkuk has written about. Or else, if it turns out to be a doozy, the pressure from the Republicans in Congress will become very intense for the appointment of a second special counsel.

blue peacock

TTG #24

The Nunes memo is a document with a political purpose, not a source document. If it was oversight, the HPSCI would be raking the FBI over the coals in hearings right now.

The Nunes memo was never a source document and if you listen to the many interviews of Reps. Jordan, Gaetz & Meadows they never claim that it was a source doc. They have characterized it as a summary of the evidence around the specific topic of FISA abuse. This was their way around the classification and obstruction by the DOJ/FBI. Yes, it is political because it is going to be political pressure that takes it to the next step of either disclosure of the source documents or the appointment of another special counsel. Wray, Rosenstein, McCabe have already testified several times. Peter Strzok, Bill Priestap, Bruce Ohr, et al are all on deck. It has taken Nunes, Grassley and Goodlatte over a year in the face of all the obstruction to get this far. The Nunes memo was designed to play a very specific role. Bring forth allegations into the public square of malfeasance and a potential conspiracy. Schiff's memo will counter that by stating the Republicans are attacking our law enforcement & IC. This type of response, IMO, is exactly what the Republicans want. This then leads to the next step. This is just the beginning of discovery.

None of this is a Constitutional crisis.

It can become one, if in the process of discovery they find sufficient evidence of a conspiracy, or if the IG report notes that there was a concerted effort to undermine Trump. The DOJ & FBI are doing their darndest to prevent discovery.

Tom

@TTG and Publius Tacitus Thanks to both of you. You are doing a great service to the public. I tend to go with Tacitus though. The reason being that nobody who has any knowledge of Russia could but come to the conclusion that the Steele dossier is utter nonsense. Therefore any use of the dossier could only have been taken in bad faith. Or else the Borg is really totally stupid.

Tel
"There are two classes of FBI "informants." One is serving as a "criminal informant" and the other is as an "intelligence asset."
Looks like now we have a third category where a guy perfectly known to be a partisan hack gets paid a token payment by the FBI to give the appearance of being a real "intelligence asset" thus decorating the pantomime set in preparation for the FISA court where they can befuddle the good Judge.

In other words, the FBI guys were well aware that Steele was no real "asset", just wanted it to look that way.

And you go make a law in good faith, believing that people will do the right thing and obey said law... but instead they go to extraordinary lengths to find a way to get around it, then you need a new law to fix that problem. Tsk tsk.

Tel
"But why Page?"
Because the trick of intelligence gathering is to accidentally-on-purpose scoop up quite a bit more than you intended and then send it to AG Lynch so the key people can be "unmasked" before some completely unknown and unknowable "leak" parcels it up with unmasked names and speaks to the press, on condition of anonymity because they solemnly promised never to speak to the press.

You are thinking in terms of a legitimate investigation, which this was never intended to be.

JW

Is there any evidence that Mr Steele actually exists, other than the word of some who are sure they've seen him, and an empty but still warm coffee cup, etc ? If his existence is questionable, then so too would be the provenance of his 'dossier'.

steve

So the FISA application has been released and people have read it? Have you read it? Your trust in our politicians is interesting, but I think that trust and verify is better. I don't really trust the Democrats either as they have already claimed that most of what is in the memo is false, but they don't have the application either, and they also have not released the McCabe testimony.

Steve

Eric Newhill

wisedup,
I posted a comment a little past my "good until" hour last night. I erroneously stated how much Page was allegedly offered, Sechin, to end sanctions. Still, it was an eye raising amount of $. I think it strained credibility.

Why Page? I think it's all about perception management; putting a fig leaf on the coup for the public's sake. Goes like this. Trump was getting bashed for allegedly knowing nothing about foreign policy and not having a team. This was especially damaging compared to Clinton, who had been Sec State. Trump has his people quickly look everywhere for people and organize as many "advisors" as possible (more perception management). Then he fires back at critiques that he has all kinds of advisors. Page had a PhD, Naval Academy grad. That looked good. Page Makes the team Trump list. The FBI has been circling, waiting for something to seize upon to damage Trump on Clinton's behalf. Bingo! Calls are made and Steele is directed to include inflammatory "intel" on Page and Page +Trump in his reports. He does. It is possible that FBI did not fully realize at the time that Page and Trump never talk. Poor Page. Everyone uses him and no one takes him seriously.

Joe100

I am getting really confused here. According to then NYT (via a "former intelligence officer") Carter Page was the FBI Undercover Employee (UCE-1) in the Buryakov case (2013) and that (apparently according to court records) he continued to support the case through March 2016.

So how does this (if accurate and ten description of UCE-1 certainly fits Page) relate to an October 2016 FISA warrant on him??

For details see: https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/02/05/in-march-2016-carter-page-was-an-fbi-employee-in-october-2016-fbi-told-fisa-court-hes-a-spy/#more-145498

Eric Newhill

TTG,
In bringing up Stormy Daniels I think you did us all a favor by reminding that it is incorrect to think about this as a legitimate investigation where facts and procedures matter. It isn't. It is, IMO, much more of a perception operation engaged in by Obama/Clinton loyal bureaucrats and partners in the mainstream media.

Examining each tree causes us to forget about the forest. The forest - the legend - is that we have elected a crooked buffoon conman that colluded w/ Russians to win an election for the purpose of making himself wealthier and to sell out America to our most deadly adversary. The proof of this is the Steele dossier and that the impeccable FBI has him under investigation!!!

Maybe the FBI gets to scoop something up w/ their spying, but it's not as important as we think it would be (as in a real investigation).

To keep the fires burning hot, Stormy Daniels and other salacious material is trotted out on a regular schedule. The salacious material, if you notice, self-reinforces. Steele is true b/c Daniels is true and vice versa etc., etc. ad nauseum. Clapper and brennan make regular appearances denouncing Trump as do other Unquestionables.

That's all this is, IMO. Keeping the heat on Trump until he quits or until public opinion is sufficiently aroused that he can be impeached on something...anything.

Charles

It is well known that Catherine The Great wrote the second amendment, Thomas Jefferson was an agent of Czarist Russia as the second amendment clearly shows.

turcopolier

joe100

One explanation might be that the left hand did not know what the right hand was doing. Another might be that the FBI wanted the warrant and that CP was a convenient vehicle. pl

Dr. Puck

Why would massive surveillance need to be uncovered?

The Trump administration has its appointees at the top of, and, running the DOJ & IC. What do you suppose happens when the boss asks his employee a straightforward question about prior activities?

Dr. Puck

thank you TTG for helping with the difference between validated fact and everything else short of that standard.

...bonus appreciation for pithiness, "if you deny the concept of Russian interference, those reports of Steele are just part of the vast left wing conspiracy"

Sid Finster

Regardless of any law that he may have violated, Steele will not be charged in the US or the UK as long as he was doing what the Deep State wishes.

Sid Finster

No better way to suicide a man that law enforcement wants suicided than to put him in protective custody.

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