Nullification and Interposition - 2018

 

 "Like many California cities, Oakland has declared itself a sanctuary for those here illegally, and officials there have vowed to fight President Trump's promised immigration crackdown. Tensions have heightened in recent weeks as administration officials have talked about targeting California for increased immigration enforcement. Trump last week also said he was thinking of withdrawing Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents from the state, predicting it could cause a wave of crime.

While Schaaf said she was trying to help those who might be arrested, some advocates said it had a different impact.

"The main reaction that people have had has been fear, unfortunately," said Eleni Wolfe, immigration program director at Centro Legal de la Raza, an Oakland-based advocacy group. "It's terrifying to hear about the potential of increased enforcement action, and unfortunately that's the main message that they heard."

Across California, leaders said they find themselves in a difficult position as they fight federal law enforcement actions. Typically, they said, local and federal officials work in concert. But on immigration, they are at odds."  LA Times

***********

 "Nullification, in United States constitutional history, is a legal theory that a state has the right to nullify, or invalidate, any federal law which that state has deemed unconstitutional. The theory of nullification has never been legally upheld by federal courts."  wiki

***********

 "Interposition is a claimed right of a U.S. state to oppose actions of the federal government that the state deems unconstitutional. Under the theory of interposition, a state assumes the right to "interpose" itself between the federal government and the people of the state by taking action to prevent the federal government from enforcing laws that the state considers unconstitutional. In Cooper v. Aaron, 35potential rebels in California are walking a fine line ad8 U.S. 1 (1958), the Supreme Court of the United States rejected interposition explicitly. The Supreme Court and the lower federal courts have consistently held that the power to declare federal laws unconstitutional lies with the federal judiciary, not with the states. The courts have held that interposition is not a valid constitutional doctrine when invoked to block enforcement of federal law."  wiki

-----------

 The leftist politicians who run California are playing with fire.  The US is not Canada where N&I or outright secession would probably be met with hand-wringing and not much else.  We fought our biggest and most destructive war over these issues and they were largely settled by force majeur.   The potential rebels in the Golden State are betting on their ability to frustrate enforcement of federal immigration law by avoiding direct statements of defiance or orders to local government to physically resist arrests and deportation.

IMO this game can only be played so long as the federal government allows it.  If that forbearance ends then they could easily be declared to be guilty of criminal acts.  pl

 http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ice-raids-oakland-20180226-story.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nullification_(U.S._Constitution)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interposition

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libby_Schaaf

Comments

[Tyler]

(((Libby Schaaf))), every time.

[Pacifca Advocate]

>>>IMO this game can only be played so long as the federal government allows it. If that forbearance ends then they could easily be declared to be guilty of criminal acts. pl

It seems to me that there are a lot of people--Americans, who are fed up with being marginalized and arbitrarily imprisoned in their own home country--who are out, living on the streets, and who are prepared to fight this "war" (I'm presuming you mean in a military sense--no?) that you imply, here.

I'm asking you, sincerely, Col: first, do you think there is an alternative to this particular civil war--which, please correct me if i'm wrong--you are suggesting is likely to occur?

Secondly: do you know people, currently in power, who really do want to fight this particular war?

[Oilman2]

Trumps EO regarding human trafficking expressly declared a state of national emergency.

How does this factor in to curbing sanctuary and non-enforcement?

[Covergirl]

Nice hypothesis. As an Oakland resident, I say F*ck the Feds. This country was not built on xenophobic genocide...oh wait, yes it was,,

Amendment 10: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Ofc, the Supreme Court has devolved from an independent branch of a moderately well conceived government into something very difficult to understand. It increasingly weighs in favor of adjudications which run counter to much scholarship, and certainly abrogates much of the intent of the Constitution.

Though California may well get smacked down by the Feds, there are a great many solid, rational arguments that lead to the conclusion the Fed oversteps, and thus acts illegally. Precious little anyone can do about such abuses though. Voting sure as hell doesn't work and to take arms against a sea of troubles is just daft.

[JohnsonR]

Forbearance for now possibly being motivated by "give them enough rope"......

[Jeannie Catherine]

"...this game can only be played so long as the federal government allows it. If that forbearance ends, then they could easily be declared to be guilty of criminal acts." pl

Let us pray!!

A 4th generation northern Californian (and a 5th generation legal immigrant), I have lived in the same home in Berkeley CA for the past 35 years. I am _afraid_ to fly the American flag from the holder installed on my front porch almost 100 years ago. Afraid to fly the American flag? ...because that would identify me as (a) a patriot, (b) opposing the hard-lefts' insane political tactics, and (c) invite a rock through my picture window.

God bless this site! I find refuge and courage here.
Jeannie Catherine

[TV]

Whenever I've visited California, or dealt with Californians in other places, it's always felt like dealing with children.
There's like a missing maturity gene there.
They're forever apologizing for screwing up.

[turcopolier]

PA and james

It seems that you missed the whole story of the US Civil War. It is obvious that no state can secede. An attempt to do so would be met with whatever force was necessary. pl

[Jubal]

"It is obvious that no state can secede. An attempt to do so would be met with whatever force was necessary."

What is obvious is that no war crime, no crime against humanity, no lie will be allowed to prevent Yankees from completing the current task given to them by their Zionist overlords.

When the time comes that it is in the interest of these overlords to have the US torn asunder, it will be. It is no different than Yugoslavia, birthed in Versailles but ripped apart in Nato's eastern Europe power grab.

[Richardstevenhack]

I dismiss all his "California secession" stuff as utter nonsense. It ain't gonna happen.

As for the "sanctuary state" stuff, California has managed to get marijuana for medical purposes developed, so perhaps the state has enough tax clout that it can hold off some degree of Federal enforcement for a while.

But I don't see it being able to do so indefinitely. If the Feds want to crack down on immigration in California, they'll do it.

However, with, what, seven million illegals in the US, throwing them back over the border just isn't going to be a long-term solution. What needs to happen is somehow Mexico needs to be changed from a narco-state to something more compatible with its population's real needs.

I don't care how many "walls" you build, people who see a better future in the US than they have in Mexico are going to get in. And so will the drugs and the crime.

Beyond those statements I couldn't care less about the whole issue since it's just another example of how a country this size is basically ungovernable.

[AEL]

Canada *did* put down a couple of rebellions with force out west a while back. And, of course, there was the The Republic of Manitoba

[A.Pols]

There is a possible scenario for secession, but a lot of pieces would have to fall into place. Hypothetically, if a sufficient number of states became restive, and a push for a constitutional convention arose, those states could in theory vote to dissolve the union, go their separate ways and even form new nations. But a whole lot of antecedent conditions would have to be met, chief among them being collapse of finance and loss of Dollar dominance. That could vitiate the power of the central govt. to the point where the cost benefit balance would tip against remaining united.
But that's not happening tomorrow.
"Sanctuary Cities" are somewhat of a fiction created by virtue signalling local governments. As such they are certainly free to withhold active collaboration with federal law and policy, but should they choose the path of active interference their govt. officials could end up in Federal Court on obstruction charges. Personally I think it might not be such a bad idea for the the feds to target sanctuary cities for enhanced enforcement.

[Jose]

California secession = Making America Great Again!!!

If they refuse to obey laws or election outcomes, why should they be considered Americans?

[Seamus Padraig]

John Calhoun lives!

[turcopolier]

AEL

Louis Riel et all? Sure but it is no longer the same country. the US has in contrast gotten even meaner since CW1. pl

[SmoothieX12]

it seems like the people of the west coast have more in common..

Depends. Plus damn Californians were moving North for two decades now screwing real estate prices and local politics non-stop. As I stated once--the ideal solution would be to "cut out" the coast from SF-through LA into whatever the hell those freaks there want it to be--a multicultural cloaca and be done with them. This "plan" allows to preserve San-Diego as a naval base and Mt. Shasta's magnificent oecumene. Just fence the damn freak-show in that cursed locality. Run the freaking national border south of Redding and along Sierra-Nevada slightly to the north of San-Diego, with all infrastructure which comes with borders--sensors, fences, patrols and clear cut and well advertised ROE of intruders. Culturally and politically that part of California is a cancer which continues to metastasize.

[Eric Newhill]

Feinstein has been declared too moderate to be in the running by Californians. The streets of the major cities are filled with homeless and their feces. La Raza and the Mexican Mafia have infiltrated the seats of local government. The state is perpetually facing natural disasters and fiscal collapse. There must be some law(s) could be interpreted to allow the feds to move in and take over.

If CA goes, the other bastions of leftist goofballs, Oregon and Washington state, will go with it. Obviously that can't - and won't - be allowed.

Declare Gov Brown et al traitors who collude with Mexico and other countries (e.g. global warming initiatives) against the interests of the country, invade, imprison and restore order?

[SmoothieX12]

but should they choose the path of active interference their govt. officials could end up in Federal Court on obstruction charges. Personally I think it might not be such a bad idea for the the feds to target sanctuary cities for enhanced enforcement.

Ideally--yes. The problem, however, is not just judicial, it is cultural and ideological (with ethnic and racial factors following)--they continue to reproduce generation after generation of people who are not identifying with America in a larger sense. It is a wholesale rejection out of hand of ANY American idea, not just the bad ones, which, of course, there is aplenty around. They disagree in principle. That was known in Marxism as irreconcilable contradictions. In general, those people have no conception of nation.

[Fred]

Covergirl,

Those darn Buffalo Soldiers and Indian Scouts were a tough lot when it came to "pacifying" those opposed to settling the West. The settlers in those wagon trains were not quite like the bunch who now show up at an airconditioned international airport and are met by their choice of volunteers and employees of hundreds of refugee resettlement groups and are promptly provided, free of duty, charge obligation or fee: preferencial placement for housing, education, jobs, business set-assides, and lets not forget outright grants of money. To which their progeny are entitled for generations to come due to the legacy guilt of every other American.

"Voting sure as hell doesn't work...." It seems to have worked for Libby Schaff and it's not even gender biased - it worked for a man! Donald J. Trump.

[Peter VE]

Colonel, The Constitution can be amended to allow secession. Of course, there are usually hotheads like General Beauregard who want to cut the Gordian knot, rather than negotiate. The likelihood that Congress or a Constitutional Convention will approve an amendment, which will then be ratified, is pretty close to zero, but it is possible.

[turcopolier]

Peter VE

Yes, and it is more possible that I will live to see SST 100 years old than that there will be either a constitutional convention or an amendment allowing secession. You don't think I know these things are POSSIBLE? I despair. pl

[turcopolier]

fred

"Buffalo Soldiers? Those four regiments were a small part of the Indian wars army. pl

[The Twisted Genius]

California, the self-labeled "State of Resistance," passed and signed into law the California Values Act (SB 54) that effectively codified California as a sanctuary state. Actually, it doesn't impede ICE operations. It lays out a long list of illegal aliens guilty of criminal behavior who state LE can work with ICE to deport. Fresno currently has over 200 such illegal aliens in custody awaiting ICE pickup. ICE is neglecting these requests and is instead planning on a statewide workplace sweep to apprehend some 1,500 illegal aliens. Many in the state see this as a federal effort to cripple the state economy in order to break the "State of Resistance." I think it's a lot closer to CW2 than many people think, but it will be our version of a "hybrid war" rather than a shooting war.

Other areas of resistance which the federal government want to break include California's environmental laws and marijuana legalization. California is moving to erase thousands of marijuana convictions. On the economic front, Brown has been negotiating trade deals with Xi of China in science, innovation and green development. On the legal front, several state AGs are pursuing investigating and prosecution of various corporate wrongdoers like Equifax which the US AG has dropped investigation and prosecution.

[SmoothieX12]

i have no idea how true that might be..

Hollywood and most (not all) of its loaded propaganda masquerading as an art of movies? Just a thought.

[AK]

James,

My god, what myopia! Your comment is microcosmic of the Left's habit of being its own worst enemy in its absolute refusal to deal with reality.

Obviously, you're not from around any of the places of which you write. Having lived the past five years in Los Angeles and having recently relocated to a college town in the Willamette Valley (career move for the wife), you might think I'd be susceptible to the same myopia. However, I travel a lot, and more importantly, I talk to and pay attention to people wherever I go, and I can assert with absolute certainty that the citizens of these states are not homogeneous in their political and cultural views. Least of all in California. I suggest you do as I've done and take a long (very long) road trip through the backwater byways and dusty state routes that criss-cross these places. If you can overcome your cognitive dissonance in the experience, you will learn a great deal. Have you never heard of the 51st State of Jefferson? It's a real and enduring aspiration among the citizens of the border counties in northern California and southern Oregon. I can assure you, these people are serious.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_(proposed_Pacific_state)

http://soj51.org/

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/02/us/california-far-north-identity-conservative.html

The point is this: The large population centers notwithstanding, there are very significant contingents of conservative, USA-loving folk out here who have no intention of entrusting their futures or their safety to the Champagne Socialist elites on the coasts and in the cities. They hold no cultural or political affinity for their self-anointed "betters". In fact, "seething antipathy" is the most accurate phrase to describe their sentiment.

You're Canadian, so I'll give a pass on your ignorance of these features of the American West. Still, the fact that this "West Coast" secessionist clap-trap is still being bandied about out here gives me hope that the Left is careening towards the cliff of irrelevance faster than I could have imagined. Reality will mug their lot once again, as it always has and always will. As for whether California (a state once again drowning in debt where the public services are by and large abysmal, despite boasting the nation's highest sales and income tax rates) would be better off on its own, it's such an asinine suggestion as to not warrant my addressing it.