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25 February 2018

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RC


Following Admiral Roger's closing the FSA mega-file to the FBI, it looks as though Christopher Steele’s real role was laundering information stateside which had been obtained through continued Inquiries of the NSA mega-file by our Ambassador to the UN. *** Fusion GPS immediately hired FBI manager Bruce Ohr’s wife, Nellie Ohr, and Christopher Steele. Bruce Ohr passed his illegally obtained information to Nellie, she to Steele, who then relayed the material back to Fusion / FBI as coming from his "Russian contacts."

And here 44 may have made a mistake in authorizing the spread his Daily Briefing to 30+ agencies and individuals — again as a work-around of the Roger’s information ban. This places 44’s fingerprints on the work-around.

You may recall the incident of the wrong Michael Cohen traveling to Prague to meet with Russians — when the future 45’s personal lawyer was having a family celebration / baseball game stateside? The error was generated by the NSA mega-file. Steele’s "Russian contacts" dutifully corroborated Cohen’s visit with them in Prague — how could they not, since they exist only in Steele’s mind. In short, the Steele "Russians contacts” are proved to be fictions and if fictions then there was no Russian collusion between the Trump Campaign and Russia.

*** Our UN Ambassador claims she was not generating hundreds of NSA Inquiries per week and we can believe her. The NSA Inquiries were coming from the FBI via her State Department “support” in DC.

steve

"the bulk of the application consists of allegations against Page that were disclosed to the FBI by Mr. Steele and are also outlined in the Steele dossier.”

So we have disagreement on this point. The GOP says it was all based upon Steele, the Democrats say it wasn't. Until we get to see the warrant application this will just have to be a matter of belief.

Also, any comment upon why, I hope I remember this correctly, they chose to apply for the FISA warrant after Page was no longer active on the campaign? If the purpose of spying on Page was to harm Trump, why didn't they apply for the warrant while he was still an active advisor? Was Page ever that important in the campaign? I certainly don't remember him from the campaign, but that may be a function of my memory.


Steve

Publius Tacitus

Steve,
Page was a campaign nobody. Never had a meeting with Trump. Never briefed Trump. That's what is one of the bizarre aspects of this.

Boronx

The entire case against the FBI rests on the idea that they cannot seek a warrant using biased evidence. That is both contrary to practice and illogical. They would not be able to get a warrant based off of tips, confessions or interrogations.

RC

Navy Academy graduate Carter Page has never betrayed America in any way. However he functioned in Naval Intelligence during his five-year navy career and between 2013 and May of 2016 he assisted the FBI in the locking up and trial of a real Russian spy.

Following the trial, in June of 2016 Page volunteered to the Tump campaign, which we now know was really the Don and a group of less than ten flying between rallies. Page did not attend the one meeting of his focus group before it was disbanded -- he was vacationing in Hawaii.

As noted in my comment above, Admiral Rogers' closing of the NSA mega-file to the FBI required work-arounds to continue NSA mega-file mining. So-o-o-o, 4 months after the conclusion of the Russian spy case, Carter Page is presented to the FISC court by the FBI as an Article 1, 100% proven Russian Spy. Article 1 permits the FBI to not only monitor conversations between Page and Americans, but also the conversations of these Americans with others. So with FISC Court approval the entire Trump campaign, the business associates and dealings of Trump during the past 30 years were opened to FBI scrutiny of the NSA mega-file -- Admiral Rogers be dammed.

A lesson to be leaned from this history is that a long spoon will not protect you supping with the FBI. Incidental information gleaned about you in the course of nailing a Russian spy, can and will be recycled into a synthetic case against you as a vicious foreign spy. Of course, Page had no idea that he was the subject of a spy referral and that the secret FISC court had accepted the FBI's lies. As a consequence any email / phone call / lunch with him opened the recipient and his / her many contacts to the same intrusive FBI surveillance.

In various TV interviews, Carter Page comes across as a wide-eyed and curiously bemused altar boy. But then again, he graduated from a Catholic High School.

Fred

RC,

Admiral Rogers and NSA mega-file are not mentioned in the Nunes memo or the Schiff rebutal. 44 did this and 45 did that? congrats, you type like someone who wants to deflect the conversation from the facts or a Russian bot.

outthere

You say:
"The entire case against the FBI rests on the idea that they cannot seek a warrant using biased evidence."
I don't agree.
It is not the "biased evidence" itself which is the problem. It is the failure to disclose the bias, i.e., the failure to give the court the full picture, the suppression of an important part of the story. What did the prosecutors know that they failed to reveal to the judge from whom they were seeking a warrant? Was it significant? That is the question.

james

from page 2 of the pdf - https://intelligence.house.gov/uploadedfiles/hpsci_redacted_minority_memo.pdf

"George Papadopoulos revealed [redacted] that individuals linked to Russia, who took interest in Papadopoulos as a Trump campaign foreign policy adviser, informed him in late April 2016 that Russia [two lines redacted]. Papadopoulos’s disclosure, moreover, occurred against the backdrop of Russia’s aggressive covert campaign to influence our elections, which the FBI was already monitoring. We would later learn in Papadopoulos’s plea that the information the Russians could assist by anonymously releasing were thousands of Hillary Clinton emails."

my problem with this is wikileaks released the e mails via a search-able archive on march 16th 2016...

i still don't see how anything papadopolous said is relevant time wise.. what am i missing here, other then the obvious fact papadopolous looks like a lousy liar.. apparently he got this from Joseph Mifsud who as it turns out was 'director of the London Academy of Diplomacy' and etc - according to the nyt here -
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/31/world/europe/russia-us-election-joseph-mifsud.html

and from the nyt article "Mr. Papadopoulos has pleaded guilty to lying to the F.B.I. about his conversations with the “professor.” Mr. Mifsud is referred to in the papers only as “the professor,” based in London, but a Senate aide familiar with emails involving Mr. Mifsud — lawmakers in both the Senate and the House are investigating Russia’s role in the election — confirmed that he was the person cited."

the whole thing of russia influencing the usa election seems built on via a number of sketchy characters at best..

at any rate - this is what emptywheel thinks is relevant in an otherwise irrelevant memo from schiff... i don't get how it is!

RC

Fred,

The whole Memo discussion above concerns the FBI's data manipulations to cast Carter Page as a spy worthy of an Article 1 warrant by the FISC. As I explained above, once Admiral Rogers closed the FBI's access to the NSA mega-file, the Bureau developed several work-arounds to explain how the FBI had data from the mega-file that they were mining through our Ambassador to the UN.

Fusion GPS immediately hired the wife of FBI manager Bruce Ohr, Nellie, and Christopher Steele. Bruce handed material to Nellie, Nellie to Christopher. He repackaged the material claiming it was provided by very personal "Russian contacts" and the FBI then handed that laundered Steele material to the FISC.

This laundering operation was exposed with a mistake concerning Trump's lawyer Michael Cohen. Michael Cohen was actually attending a family celebration and a ball game here in the US when he supposedly met Steele's "Russian contacts" in Prague. Steele's contacts, who exist only in his mind, dutifully confirmed that the meeting took place in Prague.

I wish I might be a sock-puppet, but too many of my condo neighbors know otherwise. My favorite hobby in retirement is writing films for children, in which white hats succeed and black hats don't.

Steve McIntyre

Bill Binney, on Jimmy Dore show, said that FISA warrant enabled "two hop" surveillance. If so, then Carter Page FISA warrant does much, much more than surveille Page himself- it permits surveillance of most of the Trump campaign.

Tel
"The entire case against the FBI rests on the idea that they cannot seek a warrant using biased evidence."
The FBI can use any evidence that is convincing to a judge.

Ahhhh, but they cannot legally tell lies to the judge during that process.

RC

Hi Fred,

In some ways, being a sock-puppet and napping, in a bureau drawer (?), between soliloquies would be rather peaceful. Alas, too many of my condo neighbors know me to be otherwise !

Do check out sites such as The Conservative Treehouse and you will discover that Admiral Rogers' closing the NSA mega-file to the FBI led to Nellie Ohr's & Christopher Steele's information laundering operation. Other sites yet will introduce you to FISC Chief Judge Rosemary Collyer's 99-page rebuke of the FBI for their defalcations.

At a minimum, you won't be surprised when a plethora of FBI / DOJ / State Department employees are found guilty and sent to prison.

Enrico Malatesta

My "dog that didn't bark" question about Carter Page - if Carter Page was such a known danger, why didn't the FBI warn the Trump Campaign against letting him become involved in the campaign?

blue peacock

A cogent critique of the Schiff memo and how it doesn't aid the Democrats.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/02/schiff-memo-russia-investigation-harms-democrats-more-than-helps-them/

The memo does note that “the FBI also interviewed Page multiple times about his Russian intelligence contacts.” Apparently, these interviews stretch back to 2013. The memo also lets slip that there was at least one more interview with Page in March 2016, before the counterintelligence investigation began. We must assume that Page was a truthful informant since his information was used in a prosecution against Russian spies and Page himself has never been accused of lying to the FBI.

So . . . here’s the question: When Steele brought the FBI his unverified allegations that Page had met with Sechin and Divyekin, why didn’t the FBI call Page in for an interview rather than subject him to FISA surveillance? Lest you wonder, this is not an instance of me second-guessing the Bureau with an investigative plan I think would have been better. It is a requirement of FISA law.

When the FBI and DOJ apply for a FISA warrant, they must convince the court that surveillance — a highly intrusive tactic by which the government monitors all of an American citizen’s electronic communications — is necessary because the foreign-intelligence information the government seeks “cannot reasonably be obtained by normal investigative techniques.” (See FISA, Section 1804(a)(6)(C) of Title 50, U.S. Code.) Normal investigative techniques include interviewing the subject. There are, of course, situations in which such alternative investigative techniques will inevitably fail — a mafia don or a jihadist is not likely to sit down with FBI agents and tell them everything he knows. But Carter Page was not only likely to do so, he had a documented history of providing information to the FBI.

There's a reason why Nunes, Goodlatte and Grassley are focused on the Clinton commissioned Fusion GPS dossier, Christopher Steele and the FISA Title 1 warrant on Carter Page. It is the simplest path to the conspiracy at the Obama administration.

jonst

My, street sense, and experience as a lawyer tells me that--"tips, confessions.." from informants is true Steve. But the bar for going after a drug dealer, or fence, or kiddie porn type, is supposed--one assumes-- to be a hell of a lot lower than going after the nominee for President of a major political party.

plantman

PT says: "Page was a campaign nobody. Never had a meeting with Trump. Never briefed Trump. That's what is one of the bizarre aspects of this."

So, if Page was a nobody, then why would the FBI bother to get a FISA warrant to spy on him?

This must be key to understanding what was going on.

What Bill Binney says has to be seriously considered, that is, that the spying on Page is just the tip of the iceberg.

(Steve McIntyre --Bill Binney... said that FISA warrant enabled "two hop" surveillance (which) permits surveillance of most of the Trump campaign.)

What other agencies were involved??
Is that a reasonable inquiry?


Leaky Ranger

The Steele Dossier never looked better and it is proved that 1) it's nature was revealed to the FISA court, and 2) that Carter Page had been under investigation long before it existed. Case closed.

Green Zone Café

Welcome to the criminal defense world. Everyday, hundreds of warrants based on the statements of criminals, paid informers, bitter ex-girlfriends, lying cops, and even non-existent "confidential informants" are issued. With all but the most blatant provably false affidavits, questionable searches are upheld by judges.

At this point I'm just waiting for Mueller's final indictments and the report. The facts will be there, or they won't.

If they are, try arguing a Motion to Suppress Evidence in the impeachment trial. That'll get you far . . .

Sid Finster

The dog that didn't bark - if the Schiff Memo were so powerful, such a slam dunk, every MSM outlet in the western world would be trumpeting it to the skies and talking about nothing but.

They seem to be barely able to acknowledge the existence of the Memo.

David Habakkuk

RC,

It really does help if, when you make claims, you link to the source so that others can evaluate them.

In the case of the claims you are making, the source is clearly a post two days ago by ‘sundance’ on the ‘Conservative Treehouse’ site entitled ‘Tying All The Loose Threads Together – DOJ, FBI, DoS, White House: “Operation Latitude”…’

(See https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/02/24/tying-all-the-loose-threads-together-doj-fbi-dos-white-house-operation-latitude/ .)

As it happens, I think the suggestion that Steele’s role may have been, in very substantial measure, to give the impression that material from other source was the product of a high-quality ‘humint’ investigation merits being taken extremely seriously.

However, to repeat claims by ‘sundance’, while not taking the – rather minimal – amount of trouble required to provide the link which allows others to evaluate them, simply puts people’s backs up and makes them less likely to take what you are suggesting seriously.

DianaLC

PT,

In the words of Emily Dickinson, I'm nobody. So., I come here to test my reaction when I read what the Democrats wrote--though it was hard to get any continuity while reading because of all the big black lines--I was completely underwhelmed. I hate it when someone claims that what he/she is going to say will be something that will change my entire Weltanschauung and it turns out to be a nothing burger, in today's parance.

So thank you for confirming my opinion of the memo and thanks to others who have commented and who have way more experience and knowledge about how our Swam works (or doesn't work?).

My first reaction before I even tried to read the memo was correct. My first instinct was to judge on the basis of personality, which I know is not often logical. I felt that nothing put out under Schiff's authority could change my mind about the point Nunes made when he put out his mamo. Schiff's defence sounded so, pardon the pun, shifty and did nothing to really counter the main point Nunes made when he released his memo.

Schiff's memo was basically a vendetta against persons. Page and Papadopolis (sp?) are obviously the unpopular kids in the minds of the "mean girl" Democrats because they had links to Trump, the real threat to the popular girl Democrats. All we have to do is hear their names and we should automatically decide that if we want to be popular, we should malign them also so as to malign Trump and gain our entrance into the popular group in the cafeteria.

Jack

blue peacock,

Thanks for that link.

Funnily enough the question raised in your excerpt is exactly what I've been thinking since reading a post by TTG about Carter Page being an important FBI informant and state witness to the prosecution of Russian espionage.

If the FBI believed Page had become a Russian spy it would have been easy due to their prior relationship with him to interview him and if he lied, to prosecute him for the process crime of perjury. That is such a slam dunk that the fact they didn't do that makes it seem there's something fishy there.

And they never verified Steele's allegation that Page met with Sechin and Divyekin which would have been easy to do and now it seems was pure fabrication. Instead the FBI and DOJ lied and misrepresented to FISC to get a surveillance warrant on Page. This seems rather fishy. I speculate they did that to gain incidental collection on members of the Trump campaign.

I note that Page hasn't been charged by the DOJ for any crime. I agree with you that the investigation of the "conspiracy" is moving along well despite the roadblocks by the DOJ. Goodlatte who has seen the FISA application has now requested all the DOJ testimony from FISC. In a recent interview Rep. Ratcliffe who has also seen the FISA application made an interesting point that since in a FISC proceeding the accused has no ability to challenge the prosecution's claims, the prosecution has an affirmative obligation under FISA to present all the evidence, which the DOJ did not do but instead knowingly mislead the court.

It looks like we're heading towards another special counsel to investigate law enforcement and the IC regarding both the Trump and Clinton counter-intelligence investigations as well as the IC and media propaganda efforts to build hysteria around the meme of collusion of the Trump campaign with the Russian government. That investigation could lead all the way into the Obama White House.

Anna

Your answer deserves F.
See post No 14: "...the FBI also interviewed Page multiple times about his Russian intelligence contacts.” Apparently, these interviews stretch back to 2013. The memo also lets slip that there was at least one more interview with Page in March 2016, before the counterintelligence investigation began. We must assume that Page was a truthful informant since his information was used in a prosecution against Russian spies and Page himself has never been accused of lying to the FBI."
The case is not closed – it is closing on the high-placed violators of the US Constitution --as well as on their lack of professionalism, sheer incompetence and promiscuous opportunism
Instead of working hard to protect national security, the FBI/CIA/DOJ' senior-idiots (accustomed to comfort and hefty checks) have been politicking and meddling in the electoral process. Meanwhile, the foreign nationals were left free to surf congressional computers – for years! (See Awan affair) and the “natives” like Clinton et al have been making a lot of money by getting huge bribes from Russians and Saudis (see Uranium One, involving Mueller for all other people).
There is another big Q: To what extend both the FBI and the CIA have been infiltrated by Israel-firsters that are loyal to Zion, and how extensive is the damage inflicted by the “duals” on the US.

RC

Thank you David -- will do so in the future.

Walrus

Sorry PT but I had to post this link.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10156367146340312&set=a.10150636718210312.445364.619270311&type=3&theater

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