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22 February 2018

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Eric Newhill

The deputy's inaction is indeed inexcusable any way you look at it. I just heard his union rep weakly attempting some small amount of deflection (hey, it's the rep's job, I guess) - something about followed some procedures of lesser importance per the book - but then basically agreeing that the failure to address the shooter is unacceptable. So even the union guy won't defend the deputy on the count of cowardice.

BillWade

Whether I'm soft in the head or not is debatable, lol. I want to know why this particular officer was assigned to the school. Is it one of those, "well, he's a good guy but he's been hitting the bottle a bit, let's put him out to pasture over at the school"? I kinda think Sheriff Israel needs to be looked at. He's let numerous warnings pass by, has he also assigned his "best" to this school?

Since the Columbine shooting, over 10,000 police officers have been assigned to various schools, probably 99.9% have never had to deal with a shooter situation but they have managed to arrest over 1 million students for various, usually minor, offenses. I call that, "things ain't working".

Babak Makkinejad

I believe these agencies do not have the manpower to pursue every lead and then to remain on that lead for a long period of time.

Of course the fellow was deranged but where would you lock him up?

40 years ago, under the guise of "Community Care", mental institutions were closed down and the inmates released to the community care - in reality, they became criminals or vagrants - street people.

But the electorate saved a ton of money in the form of lower taxes.

turcopolier

Bill Wade

What is your solution to the problem of mass shootings? pl

turcopolier

All

Someone said here that this is a management problem. It is to the extent that it is necessary to try to weed out unsuitables from duty assignments that may require emergency actions, but, in fact it is not possible to actually know how a person will perform in combat until you see them do it. For that reason dereliction of duty must be punished to encourage wobblers to do their duty. pl

Account Deleted

A new euphemism is added to the lexicon; to take up a position.

There is only one honorable course of action in the aftermath of such a gross dereliction of one's duty. But I expect TTG is right, the guy will choose to live with himself. Should the State punish the crime of cowardice? Perhaps in such cases it should. If it helps select the right good guy with a gun, that surely cannot be a bad thing.

Eric Newhill

Babak,
At the risk of going too far off-topic, I will explain how the mental system works (and it usually does work if everyone does their part).

Cruz had a long history of psychiatric and criminal issues and a diagnosis. In the months prior to the school shooting he had; 1) made statements about becoming a mass murder 2) had made videos of cutting himself 3) had assaulted a fellow student at the school - there's more, but those three items are sufficient. The carry of and dealing in knives at school is icing on the cake.

The cutting (self-harm) and the assault (danger to others)are classic examples of what gets people petitioned into involuntary court ordered mental health commitment/treatment. IMO, Cruz is an incurable sociopath. However, under the court order people like him are often placed in group homes, outpatient treatment subsequent to a spell inpatient and - mostly importantly - they are not allowed to be in possession of firearms or other weapons. The court could have - and would have - ordered all guns to be confiscated. The police would come and take weapons.

Moreover, under the court order, any deviation from the treatment plan would have resulted in Cruz being re-placed in an inpatient setting, under lockdown, until deemed stabilized to return to the group home. With each subsequent decompensation it would become easier to pick him up and place increasingly tighter restrictions on his freedoms. Finally, the courts typically order medication. The medication would not cure him, but it would certainly take the wind out of his psycho sails. If he refused to comply with the medicine on his own, he'd be forced to have it injected. The injections would last two weeks to a month depending on the medicine selected. Basically, turn him into a zombie if need be.

This sort of public mental health intervention regime happens every day all across the country. It works. The system failed in this instance. There are reasons why, but we have not yet heard what those reasons are.

English Outsider

Colonel,

What you say is so self-evident as to require no comment in itself. But I believe it is also the case that the regulations and protocols prescribing what officers or emergency workers should do in such circumstances should be examined. It has seemed for some time now that those regulations are drawn so tightly and in such detail that they can inhibit the normal human response to such a catastrophe.

Four minutes can be a very long time. Allow a while to get over the shock and realise what's happening and that still leaves the bulk of the time unaccounted for. Was the Deputy simply standing there for the remaining time, or was he in communication with his superiors or receiving instructions during that time?

Would the Deputy's Standing Orders or training procedures have prescribed intervening immediately in such a case, or staying where he was and waiting for back-up?

I am reminded of an event reported some time ago. As it was reported, rescue workers stood on the edge of a pond while a boy was drowning because regulations forbade simply entering the water and wading out to him. Similar precautionary regulations sometimes impede the work of firemen.

Cowardice is cowardice whatever the book says and the Deputy will have to live with that. So will the parents whose children could have been saved had he intervened. But courage is not made easier if regulation or training forbid it.

We live in an increasingly legalistic and tick-box culture, so much so that the Letter of the Law can sometimes go dead against the Spirit. "My word is my bond" has been replaced with "Sue me, if you have the time and money." Fairness and (dare one use the word) Justice have been replaced by minute adherence to intricate prescription. "Getting the job done" for officials has been replaced with a slavish following of regulation with the pension at risk if you don't. Coming from an army background you will perhaps not be able to envisage circumstances in which cowardice is not dereliction of duty. I fear we are moving towards a society in which cowardice or courage are irrelevant and "did you follow procedure?" the only question that matters.

That's why I'd like to know more about that Deputy. Was the fault his alone, as the Sheriff indicates, or was it also a fault inherent in how his service is regulated and administered.

TV

FBI drops the ball BIG time, police go to Cruz's house 39 times - no big deal - and now armed officer lies down.
Do we need another (unenforceable) law?
How about law enforcement at least TRYING to do its job?

BillWade

Not really any solution unless we go back in time. We'll continue to medicate children with psychotropic drugs, won't let "boys be boys", will make sure the children get a sub-par education, promote "victimhood", promote transgender lifestyles for tykes of all ages, denigrate white males via television (ads and shows), you know this list goes on and I could, really could, elaborate further but won't.

adamski

So easy to judge...

Babak Makkinejad

Thank you for your comments.

I cannot agree with your assessment about the structures of Mental Health in the United States.

From personal experience as well as such publicly available sources: e.g.

https://www.sapiens.org/culture/colorado-theater-shooter-mental-health-access/

It only works - when it does - if one is very very wealthy and lives in wealthy counties.

BillWade

I'm not sure if it's a management problem or not, haven't heard any facts about the officer assigned to the school. If he is derelict, I agree wholeheartedly he should be punished to set an example for others. I do think though that it's a management problem if Sheriff Israel doesn't himself retire.

Mark Logan

TTG,

re: punishment

If the version being presented now pans out as accurate: Loss of pension. Brave men can be cowards for a moment and reverse for cowards, but 4 minutes is an eternity.

I pity him, nonetheless.

jpb


The 'diversity and inclusion' policy failed to ensure 17 students in the Broward School completed their education or even their natural lives. There was a contentious school board meeting in my community over school policy of keeping violent and disruptive students in the class. The school's allow the disrupting student to 'act-out' until he or she is quiet. Normal students are removed from the class room and another day of education is wasted for the dubious benefit of the problem student. These disruptions occur on a daily basis at the local middle schools. The principle of the local school praised the policy of 'diversity and inclusion' and dismissed the outrage of parents.
What are we to do?

http://browardschools.com/superintendent/bio

"To ensure all students have the ability to complete their education and to eliminate the “school house to jailhouse pipeline,” Superintendent Runcie led BCPS efforts to become a national model for ending zero tolerance policies for non-violent offences in schools. With the support of the School Board and through collaborative community efforts, BCPS has instituted new, effective practices for handling student behavior incidents, without resorting to law enforcement involvement. Student-related arrests are down by 65% since Runcie’s arrival." Superintendent Robert W. Runcie

Sundance investigated the misguided policies of the Broward County School System and the Broward County Sheriff's department after the Travon Martin affair. His work is found in several recent article at the following link.

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/02/23/broward-county-sheriffs-office-did-not-miss-warning-signs-or-make-mistakes/

helenk3

it gets a lot worse with this guy

https://www.redstate.com/patterico/2018/02/23/story-deputy-stood-outside-school-shooting-keeps-getting-worse/

Charles

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/justices-rule-police-do-not-have-a-constitutional-duty-to-protect.html
I am not a lawyer.

turcopolier

adamski

Yes in this case and I am good at it. pl

turcopolier

james

Sophistic nonsense. If he had done his duty many fewer were likely to have died. pl

turcopolier

EO

I am surprised that you come at me with that "stupid soldier" nonsense. This is not an academic discussion. If this man had done his duty many fewer would have died. pl

Babak Makkinejad

The State requirement for compulsory post-elementary education can be rescinded.

BrotherJoe

My memory may be failing me but I think that at Colombine the whole police
department was criticized for going by the book and waiting almost an hour before entering the building.

Eric Newhill

Babak,
I worked my way through grad school as an employee of a populous county, with a disproportionate share of lunatics (low cost of living and nice weather). My job was to throw a net on feral insane people. Because I was involved in the interventions - usually including a takedown of some kind prompted by dangerous behavior, etc - I was often asked to testify at the hearings. I found the hearings interesting and frequently sat through the whole thing. It was extremely rare that the court failed to find the patient in need of court ordered treatment as I described. I was not infrequently involved in the re-capture of these people per the descriptions in my original post. None of these people were wealthy; nor was the county. Quite the opposite.

Many years later, in a very different region of the country, a family member was the one in need of that kind of intervention. It worked just like my previous experience. I repeat that it works very well. When it works it is unnoticed. The failures get attention. Something is wrong in Broward Co in all of the govt agencies.

Apologies to Col Lang for going off topic again. I will drop this line of discussion now.

Fred

james,

There have been more than 29 shooting related deaths in Baltimore and more than 60 in Chicago. That's year to date numbers and in only two cities one of which is fostered the creation of the political movement known as BLM. Those deaths aren't part of the narrative of "since colmbine" so the media ignores them, just like they did last year. The ideology of the far left that changed our schools and cities into what they are today started long before columbine.

Duck1

18 US Code 875 makes it a federal offense to threaten to injure another person while engaging in Interstate Commerce. This fellow made threats to be a professional school shooter on Youtube. A proper FBI investigation would not have been prior restraint, the threat was the violation.

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